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the NEW quarterbacks
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Posted: 1/14/2013 10:04 AM
the NEW quarterbacks
kaepernick, russell wilson, RG3, cam newton.
is it the wave of the future or not.
kaepernack beat rodgers,
wilson brought back seahawks vs an 2nd half inept drop back qb (ryan)
so an anomaly, an exception, or will it change with these guys type of play.
ps- while exciting, i rather watch a drop back old school offensive attack (Im old at 53) if i wqant to see other, Ill watch Oregon Ducks.
anyone else
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Posted: 1/14/2013 10:14 AM
Re: the NEW quarterbacks
Until one of these types of QBs wins a suberbowl or 2 its going to be hard to rate exactly how good they actually are. They are exciting to watch, and open up an offense, but history has shown that slow and steady wins the race. the biggest reason they are hard to guage is because they rarely stay healthy enough to make it through a whole season, and once they are injured they are never truly the same. I feel terrible for RG3, he may come back, but I do not think we will see the same type of player we saw this year. |
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- Tuckyou
- Team Captain
- 830 posts this site
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Posted: 1/14/2013 10:46 AM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
I like Russell Wilson, he scrambles around but to buy him time to thrown a nice pass down the field. He doesn't run around trying to gain yards, so he's not taking any punishment.
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Posted: 1/14/2013 11:39 AM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
Wilson's intermediate range balls are spot on. He's more than a running QB and I think Seattle is set for a while despite the last second loss.
I feel Cam has a little too much "me me me" in him sort of like Vick when he was younger to be truly successful.
Everyone is caught up in RG3's injury, but prior to that he was throwing perfect deep balls. Assuming he can come back to healthy, he'll be a threat passing the ball for some time to come.
I'm not sold on Kapernick. I know he had a great game against GB, but prior to that, I feel as if SF would have been just as good with Alex Smith. Obviously if he keeps it up, it'd be hard to argue, but I think it's too early to say for sure.
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Posted: 1/14/2013 12:17 PM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
They all can throw the ball and they all can throw it very well, Kaepernick, Wilson, Griffin, Newton, those guys have Great Arms, Cam and Kaepernick have the Stronger Arms but may still need some work with their accuracy and decision making and RG3 and Wilson brings more of the ENTIRE PACKAGE, Arm and Accuracy and very High IQ's and have excellent decision making
So like it or not yes the QB Position is changing, it doesn't mean a one dimensional guy like Joe Webb or Tim Tebow who can't throw the ball well at all will all of a sudden have success at QB in the NFL...it means that a guy like Johnny Manziel and others will be given a chance to play QB in the NFL instead of just because Labeled "TOO SMALL" and falling in the draft
Kaepernick and Wilson had some of the best performances I ever seen from a QB in the Playoffs...you can keep denying it if it makes you feel better but no question the position is changing, that doesn't mean we have to get rid of Eli or anything like that but the next QB after Eli will probably have more Mobility
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Posted: 1/14/2013 1:37 PM
Re: the NEW quarterbacks
I think Wilson is gonna end up being the best out of all of them, because he seems to be the smartest. He's fast but he doesn't run to rack up numbers - he runs to free himself to make smart throws downfield. He's really the total package.
RGIII came into the league with leg issues and has had a few more this season. I can't see him ever putting together a stretch of 2-3 healthy seasons in a row, and the odds are very likely that he'll have a short career as such.
Kapernick's effectiveness will wear off. He has a strong arm but it's not accurate and I think teams will have more of a chance to prepare for him next season when he's ensconced as the starter.
Newton is a knuckle-head and a "me-first" guy and that will not translate into success. He'll put up some #'s but so did Michael Vick and, really, who cared?
"Where are the strong? Who are the trusted?"
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Posted: 1/14/2013 1:46 PM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
I think the thing to notice is that all of these guys are on good teams that have good defenses. These aren't players carrying their teams. Any style quarterback will be successful if they have a good offensive line, good receivers and backs and a good defense.
It'll be interesting to see who the top prospects are around the time Eli needs to be replaced. I wonder if the Giants, so deep in tradition, would go with a mobile quarterback or insist on sticking with a drop-back passer.
Also, notice that 3 of the 4 quarterbacks playing on Sunday are drop-back passers.
Good teams rely on their stars,
Great teams rely on each other.
Last edited 1/14/2013 1:47 PM by leagued
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:39 PM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
As much as I love watching football, I've never been much of an x's & o's guy. That said, it seems to me that all of these guys run a version of the wishbone. I don't know how, but I think it's just a matter of time before DC's figure out a way to stop it. Over the years this has probably helped establish the drop back QB as the way to go. With some beef up front, ELI should be fine for another 5-6 years at least.
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Posted: 1/14/2013 2:58 PM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
There is an intrinsic advantage to the offense when the defense has to account for the QB as a running threat. Essentially, it is as if the offense has another back to defend on any given play. If the QB is an exceptional athlete (i.e., great speed =/- elusiveness) then that creates even more pressure for the defense through athletic mismatches with linebackers.
So, in theory, I think a dual threat QB presents more challenges to the defense than the pocket passer.
BUT, there are practical considerations that come into play:
1. The game's rules favor the passing attack. The advantages of having a QB who is an excellent runner does not make up for the limitations posed by a poor passer creates for an offense (see Michael Vick). Ins hort, the QB is, first and foremost, a passer until the rules change.
2. QB's that have the skills to exploit defenses through the air are rare. Whether they can run or not, the priority for a QB is still the ability to pass. Running ability is gravy.
3. Conventional thinking is that running QB's have a higher risk of injury (Shanahan disputes this). Certainly, running backs get banged-up. If you have a QB that is a competent passer, do you want to risk injury by running him even if he is good at it?
At the end of the day, guys who can exploit defenses via the passing game are the most rare and prized players in the league. Given that, it is always advantageous to have exceptional athleticism at any position on the field, including QB. That results in versatility. But taking advantage of that athleticism by running the QB has be be weighed carefully against the risk of injury.
I think dual threat QBs will always have value. Further widespread utilization of spread option packages will depend on whether this generation of QBs hold up physically.
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Posted: 1/14/2013 3:25 PM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
Some thoughts:
1. When rating a QB, too much importance is put on a QB winning a SB. Best example is Marino. This past weekend Wilson and Peyton put their teams in a position to win but their defense could not stop the other team.
2. The ability to buy time is critical to the success of a QB. Whether it is moving around in the pocket, being effective on a roll out or scrambling or any combination of the three.
3. Having a QB who can run adds to the dynamics of the offense. I do think it is just a matter of time that defenses will adapt. Containment and having a spy on the QB is the keys to minimizing the effects.
4. Comprehending the offense, reading defenses, the ability to throw the tough passes (arm strength) and accuracy will always be more important than running speed when it comes to the QB position.
5. I am a firm believer that a team that has to rely on the running ability of a QB to win a game is not going to win a championship.
6. With all of the above said, I do agree that very athletic players that in the past would have been made into a WR or some other skill position will now be given the chance to develop into a QB. I think this will be most prevalent at the college level.
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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:11 PM
Re: the NEW quarterbacks
All of these new young QB's are excellent passers with athletic ability and not " running QB's " and that is what people seem to not understand, and there is a difference. I for one would much rather have a guy that is an efficient passer with athletic ability as opposed to a great passer that can't get out of his own way, for instance RG3 is more accurate than Eli Manning he does not and has not thrown the percentage of interceptions that Eli Maning does. I have seen instances when a play has broken down, because of good coverage and there is 15 plus yards in front of him, and after 4 maybe 5 yards Eli Manning is dead meat, whereas a Cam Newton will get the whole 15 or at least 10. I love Mannings passing ability, however after that he has very little to offer. Now please don't get angry like I have blasphemed against our god or something, but the truth is the truth. Even if Robert Griffin looses 80% of his speed he will still be a excellent passer, simply because he is an excellent passer same thing with Cam, wilson, and Luck.  |
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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:36 PM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
Of the 4 teams left 3 are pocket passers and 1 is the new breed. That says something. Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck look like they will be great pocket passers and still be able to run when necessary. I am not sure about Kapernick (sp) yet. Of the young qbacks I think Wilson and Luck have the biggest upside..
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Posted: 1/14/2013 4:57 PM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
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- olderfan
- Pro Bowler
- 1686 posts this site
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Posted: 1/15/2013 2:58 AM
Re: the NEW quarterbacks
In reality, they are simply following in the footsteps of one the greatest Giant rivals of all time, the great (I can man up here) Randall Cunningham. Using the read option is different, but Randall set the bar very high. IMO they all have a long way to go, cause they aren't beating any D that can be considered in the same league as the Giants in the late 80's, and Randall smoked them often. It actually shocks me that not one of the talking heads (to my knowledge anyway) has made that comparison. When one kicks a 90 yard punt I'll buy in... : )
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Posted: 1/15/2013 4:21 AM
RE: the NEW quarterbacks
YeOldeMtnWasp wrote: There is an intrinsic advantage to the offense when the defense has to account for the QB as a running threat. Essentially, it is as if the offense has another back to defend on any given play. If the QB is an exceptional athlete (i.e., great speed =/- elusiveness) then that creates even more pressure for the defense through athletic mismatches with linebackers.
So, in theory, I think a dual threat QB presents more challenges to the defense than the pocket passer.
BUT, there are practical considerations that come into play:
1. The game's rules favor the passing attack. The advantages of having a QB who is an excellent runner does not make up for the limitations posed by a poor passer creates for an offense (see Michael Vick). Ins hort, the QB is, first and foremost, a passer until the rules change.
2. QB's that have the skills to exploit defenses through the air are rare. Whether they can run or not, the priority for a QB is still the ability to pass. Running ability is gravy.
3. Conventional thinking is that running QB's have a higher risk of injury (Shanahan disputes this). Certainly, running backs get banged-up. If you have a QB that is a competent passer, do you want to risk injury by running him even if he is good at it?
At the end of the day, guys who can exploit defenses via the passing game are the most rare and prized players in the league. Given that, it is always advantageous to have exceptional athleticism at any position on the field, including QB. That results in versatility. But taking advantage of that athleticism by running the QB has be be weighed carefully against the risk of injury.
I think dual threat QBs will always have value. Further widespread utilization of spread option packages will depend on whether this generation of QBs hold up physically. Awesome post. My thoughts aren't much different. A QB who can run essentially allows the offense to play with an extra guy on the field. But there are practical considerations and limitations to this, i.e., the QB's health. I think the Redskins will move away from a read option offense and develop Griffin as a pocket passer, as he isn't holding up physically. But the 49ers haven't reached this point and may be a few years away from it. As far as Wilson goes, I see him as nothing new: he plays the game a little like Fran Tarkenton. The read option offense is a good way to break in a young QB who doesn't have the experience to read defenses. But, at some point, the running QB must make a transition into being more of a pocket passer since he can't keep taking hits. Some reach that point earlier than others. After two major knee injuries, I think the Redskins offense with RG3 will be different next year. Remember Joe Delaney
Last edited 1/15/2013 4:22 AM by callmeSage
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Posted: 1/15/2013 10:12 AM
Re: the NEW quarterbacks
Great job by everyone here. Lots of good stuff.
I don't think the read option is going away any time soon, and I think it's going to be a handy way future NFL offenses drive defenses crazy. As has been said.....when you have to account for the QB as a passer AND a runner.....that makes things a helluva lot more complicated. I don't think the read option will be the primary offensive approach teams go with......but I could see them employing it up to 50% of the time.
Oddly.......I think the pass rules actually also help the read option. The QB can always just take a dive and he will be largely protected. The defense is always walking on eggshells in this league, so they won't have their ears pinned back as much as they usually do.
I think defenses absolutely will adjust, however....perhaps going with smaller lineups more often than not.
Some of the offensive generals we have in the game now are amazing. I can't stand Brady.....but the guy is FILTHY GOOD. He's so freaking accurate and is terrific at reading and reacting. Plus.....with McDaniels back....it seems like they are recapturing some of that 2007 offensive magic. It amazes me teams can't keep this offense under control. Also.....some of the passes made over the weekend were absolutely ridiculous. Peyton fit balls into extremely tight windows.....Flacco's deep passing was terrifc.....Ryan has been highly accurate much of the season and used Tony G very effectively.
As much as I like defense in the NFL......it's about as difficult to play defense as ever with the ability of some of the NFLs best QBs. Geez......
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- guy03
- Just Drafted
- 5 posts this site
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Posted: 1/16/2013 8:36 AM
Re: the NEW quarterbacks
Kaepernick, not "accurate"? Which game or games have you been watching? According to your own Phil Simms, he says that Kaepernick is the "most dynamic QB in the NFL right now." His arm is not good, its special. Simms says that he can make every throw with unbelievable accuracy. For a first year starter in his only 7th start, he has beaten the likes of Drew Brees (in his house), Tom Brady (in his house) and now Aaron Rodgers in his first playoff game. Not only set an all time rushing record in the Packer game but threw for 263 yds and two touchdowns with passes that were laser like.
Need I say more.
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Posted: 1/16/2013 12:24 PM
Re: the NEW quarterbacks
If I had to choose among of all the sensational rookie QB's I'd take Luck ,
Luck is big and strong and does not expose himself to as much danger as the other three, for sheer ball handling RG111 is far and away the best when he gives the ball to the RB it's impossible to know if he did or didn't.
Kaepernick , is a QB on a very good team as is Wilson , Skins are no slouches but RG111 is their big upgrade.
Kaepernik had a sensational game v GB but GB played about as poor a defensive effort as was possible. , he looks to be the real deal in all areas of the game and his running is a huge asset ,however running QB's simply cant be exposed to hard hits like running backs, RG111 has already paid the price for running with abandonment;
Controlled running without looking for extra yds except in a must do situation can work All three running QB have very good arms and barring injuries are going to be a load to handle it may be all the rage for a while, we shall have to see it play out
I believe all three can be pocket passers and if they take enough big hits running they may have to do just that, RB's life expectancy in the NFL is generally very short I don't think you want your QB to have a short shelf life.
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