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2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)...

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Posted: 1/4/2013 3:11 PM

2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 


I'm not going to make a lot of friends with my opinion, but these are my thoughts on who the Giants need to look at for 2013.  I don't see an overhaul by any means, but there are some glaring weaknesses (OL depth and LB come to mind) and some opportunities to upgrade.  In some cases, "good" players shouldn't be able to command highly inflated salaries, so some exits are (Osi is a good example) business decisions...

 

On Offense…
The goal should be to improve the Offensive Line (OLT’s and depth).

Victor Cruz -- Pay the man.  Signing Cruz is a no-brainer.  Although 2012 was not as productive a year for Cruz, he is still the Giants most consistent offensive weapon.

Ahmad Bradshaw -- Resign, but look at trimming salary.  Bradshaw has the guts, but not the quickness and durability of a feature RB.  The Giants will need to platoon their backfield.  I see a diminished role for Bradshaw with more carries by Wilson/Brown.

Andre Brown -- Tender him.  Showed he's got the right stuff as in inside runner.  Durability IS an issue, but he should be able to be a significant contributor.

David Carr -- We know what we have with Carr and Eli's durability has made this decision uninteresting.   I think it's time for the Giants to look at developing a decent backup (not time to look for Eli's replacement).

Travis Beckum – Eh... Let him walk.  He's never really had a chance to make an impact, but he did leave an impression.  He's not going to light the world on fire and he's got questionable health issues (oft injured).   It's time to look at a mid-round TE, or a decent lower end free agent.

Dominik Hixon – Time to go.  I'm grateful for everything he's done and the way he's fought through some tough injuries, but he's replaceable with the strong finish by Randel.

Ramses Barden -- Time to go.  He had his one career game, but never made a run at being the #3 or even the #4 receiver.  If you can’t use a 6-7” wide receiver in the red zone, there’s no place for him.

Bear Pascoe – Resign at the right price, but upgrade if possible.  Bear is a good blocker and can occasionally slip into coverage.  He’s not going to make an ESPN highlight reel.

Martellus Bennett -- I say sign him for the right price and if nobody else is available. This is a tough one for the Giants.    I like Bennett, but honestly he didn’t light the world on fire.  He’s a better than average blocker, but an average receiver.

David Diehl – Time to go.  Diehl is an adequate inside guy when he’s playing RG, but as an OLT, he is scary.  Diehl has been a good soldier and until his  DUI a model player.

Kevin Baas --  Sign at the right price, but the Giants should definitely seek an upgrade.  Baas was adequate, but replaceable.  Baas is very slow and against a nose tackle in the 3-4, he’s a liability.  His pass blocking is slightly better than run blocking.  Combined with Diehl and Snee as Guards, Baas is the anchor for an average interior OL.

Chris Snee -- Sign and restructure.  Obviously, there’s the family angle here, but Chris Snee is no longer the elite Guard that he once was.  This year he was ineffective due to a string of injuries, but his decline has been evident over several years.  This is a position than needs to be refreshed and Snee could hang on for another year or two to solidify his replacement.  Before leaving the offense, Reese should look very carefully at the current starting OL and look to upgrade and add depth…  The OL has been ignored for several years and 2013 is time to pay the piper.

On defense:
The goals should be to VASTLY improve linebackers and improve the secondary.

Stevie Brown – Sign the man.  Brown was the best defensive back and a ball hawk.  Giants safeties… Brown, Rolle and Phillips are bright spots in an exceptionally weak Giants secondary.

Rocky Bernard – Let him go into FA and see what happens.  Bernard is a decent pass rusher, but has been hit or miss as a run stopper.  If he makes it through free agency with little interest the Giants should resign him.  I think some of his problems could be attributed to an atrocious group of linebackers.

Osi Umenyoria – Time for Osi to go to FA.  If someone is willing to overpay for him, the Giants should tip their cap in thanks for the memories.

Justin Tuck -- Sign and Restructure.  Tuck recently said that he has 5-6 more seasons left.  I think that would not be something Jerry Reese or Tom Coughlin agrees to.  Tuck is still potent, but is not a game changer any more.  He is a second fiddle to JPP and sinking fast.  No other player on the DL has deteriorated as quickly as Tuck and it’s fair to say that he will never be the player he was in 2009/2010/2011.


Chris Canty: Sign and restructure.  He’s been the Giants best run stopper and when he’s playing well, he is one of the few Giants who can create inside pressure.

Marvin Austin -- Sign him in a make or break year.  Austin has to stay healthy and demonstrate consistency.  Maybe he’s had some bad breaks, but he’s one guy on this defense who has a lot of unrealized potential.

Michael Boley --  Time to go.   The Giants don’t need an average linebacker who can’t stay healthy.  Boley only looks decent because the Giants are so void of linebacking talent.  Nothing against Boley, he’d be a decent #2 guy somewhere else, but the Giants need to re-load at linebacker and it starts here.

Chase Blackburn --  Resign.  Chase is the slowest linebacker I’ve ever seen in my life, but he’s got what the Giants defense needs, heart and leadership.  It’s arguable if Blackburn would be a starter on at least 28 of the 31 teams in the NFL (Giants, Saints and Raiders would be the few that would welcome him).  Blackburn is all “chase” and no “catch” and is by no means a high caliber linebacker.  The one thing Blackburn is, is consistent.  He shows that he can remain healthy, so the Giants know what they have and for now that’s okay.


Keith Rivers – Let him go to FA.  Rivers is a mountain of potential, but delivered an anthill of production.  The same health and guts problems that plagued him at Cincinnati followed him to New York.  When the rare occasion led him to be healthy for a few plays, he was not an impact.  Rivers can’t be depended on and is not consistent.

 
Terrell Thomas -- Cut.  3 major knee injuries and a secondary that is swiss cheese are not a good combination.  It’s time for the Giants to re-load the cornerbacks.


Kenny Phillips – Sign and restructure.  Phillips is a guy that might get some real interest in FA, so the Giants have to be careful.  If a deal at a good price can’t be had, then Phillips will most likely be lost to a team that’s going to overpay.

Corey Webster --  Sign only with a re-structure.  Webster didn’t just have a bad year, he was embarrassed.  This was the Giants best CB heading into the season and the biggest train wreck of the season after the Ravens game.  Webster is a marginal starting cornerback and to think that he’s considered the Giants best Corner will illustrate how serious the problem with the secondary is.

Justin Tryon -- Let him go in FA.  Tryon is a decent special teamer, but has no cover skills.  The Colts realized this 2 years earlier than the Giants.


Bruce Johnson -- Sign him.  Before injuries, Johnson was on his way to becoming a very good nickel back.  Now with the Giants seemingly content to play a 3 safety secondary, Johnson may be the guy who can step-up and replace Terrell Thomas.

Lawrence Tynes – Sign at the right price or upgrade.  He’s fine from 40 yards in and is valuable, but not indispensible.  While he can hit the occasional 45 yarder, he doesn’t do it often enough.  There seems to be some recent success with young legs coming out of college (Zuerlein/Rams and Tucker/Ravens are good examples)


2013 Free Agent Scorecard

Here are Free Agents next year (This came from Eric at BBI):

Last Updated: January 3, 2013

Exclusive Rights Free Agents (if tendered):

·      OC Jim Cordle

·      DE Adrian Tracy

·      DE Justin Trattou

Restricted Free Agents (if tendered):

·      HB Andre Brown

·      HB Ryan Torain

·      WR Victor Cruz

·      TE Bear Pascoe

·      S Stevie Brown

Unrestricted Free Agents:

·      QB David Carr

·      HB Kregg Lumpkin

·      WR Domenik Hixon

·      WR Ramses Barden

·      TE Martellus Bennett

·      TE Travis Beckum

·      OG Kevin Boothe

·      OT Will Beatty

·      OT Sean Locklear

·      DE Osi Umenyiora

·      DT Rocky Bernard

·      DT Shaun Rogers

·      LB Chase Blackburn

·      LB Keith Rivers

·      CB Justin Tryon

·      CB Bruce Johnson

·      CB Brian Witherspoon

·      S Kenny Phillips

·      PK Lawrence Tynes

Free Agents Signed from Other Teams:

Re-Signed Practice Squad Players:

·      TE Larry Donnell (Re-Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $900,000 salary)

·      OG Stephen Goodin (Re-Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $900,000 salary)

·      OG/OT Levy Adcock (Re-Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $900,000 salary)

·      OT Matt McCants (Re-Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $900,000 salary)

·      DE Matt Broha (Re-Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $900,000 salary)

·      CB Laron Scott (Re-Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $900,000 salary)

Signed “Street” Free Agents:

·      QB Curtis Painter (Signed by Giants)

·      WR Brandon Collins (Signed by Giants)

·      WR Kevin Hardy (Signed by Giants)

·      OG Michael Jasper (Signed by Giants)

·      DT Bobby Skinner (Signed by Giants)

·      LB Jake Muasau (Signed by Giants)

·      CB Trumaine McBride (Signed by Giants)

SB = Signing Bonus

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Posted: 1/4/2013 10:06 PM

Re: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 


A good and thoughtful list, but I have a number of disagreements.

Brown - Forget him.  Tell me how many consecutive games he has ever played without injury.

Hixon - He stays because he is a reliable route runner and he has the backing of TC.  That is good enough for me.

Canty - He is certainly not a run stopper or haven't you watched any games this year.  He has now suffered three serious injuries, and there is no guarantee that he will come back.  Knowing in December that he needed an operation he waits until May so that he misses all of training and half the season and still gets paid.  I don't want a guy like that on my team.

Austin - You don't reserve a precious roster spot for a guy that has shown nothing.

Phillips - He is not needed.  There is enough talent at safety, and you have the question of his knees.

Johnson - He has already suffered two serious injuries.  Can't take a chance.

Pay attention to injuries before you start signing guys.
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Posted: 1/4/2013 11:17 PM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 


Restricted Free Agents (if tendered):

HB Andre Brown - Yes bring him back. He won't cost much. But this meand Bradshaw has to go. The Giants can't rely on a guy who has bum feet, a bad neck, and ankles that surprise us all that they hold him up

WR Victor Cruz - Of course. He's Eli's go-to-guy. Don't overpay him to the point where the Giants can't sign their other FA's.

TE Bear Pascoe - Debatable. He's basically a blocking TE. Might be able to find another one of those in FA or late in the draft.

S Stevie Brown - Put a tender on him, but it would be nice to have him back. He is a ball hawking FS. The good does come with the bad as he does blow coverages on big plays.

Unrestricted Free Agents:

QB David Carr - His time is over. Find someone new to backup Eli.

WR Domenik Hixon - He knows the grass isn't greener on the other side. He'll stay for whatever the Giants offer. After 2 ACL's, i don't see any other team going out of their way to sign Hixon.

WR Ramses Barden - The experiment is over. Goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out. Barden could of been a great Red Zone weapon, but he crapped the bed.

TE Martellus Bennett - Yes, bring him back. Had a fine season. He said he'd take the hometown discout. Wants to play with his brother Michael, so he can try and convince him to come to the Giants to replace an outgoing Osi at DE.

TE Travis Beckum - Whoever thought to keep him around for this season should be smacked in the face. BUST. Waste of a pick alongside Barden.

OG Kevin Boothe - I think he is going to price himself out of the Giants range. Just a gut feeling.

OT Will Beatty - Giants need to either Franchise him or sign him as quick as possible. Solid LT. While people will be bidding for Jake Long, the Giants should remove Beatty from being the next guy available for all the teams who miss out on Long.

OT Sean Locklear - Vets minimum with the fact he knows he'll be the backup again.

DE Osi Umenyiora - Had a great time Osi, but you overvalue youself. Can't play the run and occassionaly overshoots the QB when rushing. Gonna miss the strip sacks. I feel sorry for whoever actually overpays for Osi.

DT Rocky Bernard - Goodbye. You got a ring. Maybe its time to retire. Pretty poor this year, so no reason the Giants bring him back.

DT Shaun Rogers - I thought he would of done some good this season, but he ahd a bad health issue. Send him on his way.

LB Chase Blackburn - Wants a longer contract, but won't get it from the Giants. Someone will give it to Chase. He was a nice player, but not a very good one.

LB Keith Rivers - I'm torn on bringing him back. He wasn't anything special and he made a home on the injury list too much.

CB Justin Tryon - He should never see the field outside of special teams ever again. The Giants know that as well as everyone else. Let him go, I doubt anyone would really care.

CB Brian Witherspoon - I kept hearing he was pretty good. But two years going down in training camp doesn't make anyone feel better of him. Last chance. Lets hope he isn't as bad as Tryon.

S Kenny Phillips - Yes you bring Kenny back, but try to do it on a TT type deal to show he can play without getting injured. All the teams know about the microfracture surgery. Hopefully the Giants can play that card to get him to stay at a reduced price. I don't want people to hear people say "Well we have Stevie Brown and Will Hill." Stevie Brown freelances and is out of position. Will Hill is entering his 2nd season. Kenny might not flash the big INT stats like Stevie does, but Kenny does his job shutting down whoever he has to cover. He can also play the run. Notice how the Giants never used the 3 safety set without Phillips around. Its cause Fewell knows that Kenny was the key person in the 3 safety set.

PK Lawrence Tynes - Let him go. Thanks for the 2 Super Bowl rings Tynes, but your leg is losing power and you've been missing big FG's that could of won games for the Giants this season. I'd rather bring in a younger guy with a big leg who can hit a 47+ yard FG.


Cuts:

RB Ahmad Bradshaw - Bad knees, neck, and ankles.  Doesn't practice during game weeks.  Misses a number of games during the season.  I'd say the Giants cut him, but because he can block on 3rd down passing attempts, Coughlin will probably want him to stay around.

OG/OT David Diehl - GET RID OF THIS PIECE OF TRASH ASAP!!!!!!  I swear, he's always getting beat and letting pressure get to Eli.  Or giving up sacks.  He can't pass block or run block.  I'm still trying to figure out what Coughlin, Killdrive, and the OL coach were thinking when they re-inserted him into the lineup over Locklear.  Diehl is a waste of space now.

DT Chris Canty - I know Fewell loves his size, but the guy has been hurt half the time he's been here and was horrible when he came back from injury this season.  Reese overpaid on Canty big time.  Its time to cut loose and find someone new.  Would be funny to see Jay Ratliff come to the Giants.

CB Corey Webster - Still trying to figure out how a guy who held other team's top receivers in check last season regressed into getting beat by pretty much everyone who lined up against him.  The Cowboys and Ravens sure weren't afraid to throw in his direction.  $9 million for that crap performance?  No thanks.  Goodbye Corey.  You helped us to 2 Super Bowls, but your time is up.

CB Terrell Thomas - Cut him because he gets a big bump in pay or roster bonus or something along those lines.  But I say give him one last shot.  I read a report on Giants101 they might move him to safety.  Who knows if that might work out.

Last edited 1/4/2013 11:30 PM by TheShade

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Posted: 1/5/2013 12:01 AM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 


Bradshaw and Canty are not being cut under any conditions. It is not like the Giants are loaded at either of those positions. 

When healthy, Canty is the Giant's best interior lineman.  Not going anywhere.

Who else would want Blackburn?  He is the slowest MLB in the entire league.  Great story, great heart, but has zero lateral agility and quickness to run down RBs on the outside.
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Posted: 1/5/2013 12:29 AM

Re: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 



BamaBlue wrote:

I'm not going to make a lot of friends with my opinion,

I agree with them all.  Let's be friends

Although the rights to players like Austin are for four years so I don't believe he needs to be resigned.

 
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  • bigjuje
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Posted: 1/5/2013 12:39 AM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 


Bradshaw is already on the books for this year.
So I see no need for another RB pick.

Just flashed on the screen that others are entering
the draft lots of young talent.
Some outstanding values in later rounds coming.

I also see many will be signed after the draft.

No need to keep walking wounded..that have had MULTIPLE
injury visits during the year and still commanding big $$
DUMP then or restructure...

Once u dump them or tell them either restructure or get cut...
they'll take less. No other team will pony up the big dollars.
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Posted: 1/5/2013 1:02 PM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 


Agree with just about everything the OP listed with this execption, Chase Blackburn, cut him and leave him cut, someday the New York Football Giants are going to get a real first string MLB again and people are going to see a night and day difference between him and what Blackburn does when that day arrives. Don't know when it'll be because the Giants staff seems to be horrible at identifying linebacker talent.
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Posted: 1/5/2013 3:58 PM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 



TheShade wrote:
OG/OT David Diehl - GET RID OF THIS PIECE OF TRASH ASAP!!!!!!  I swear, he's always getting beat and letting pressure get to Eli.  Or giving up sacks.  He can't pass block or run block.  I'm still trying to figure out what Coughlin, Killdrive, and the OL coach were thinking when they re-inserted him into the lineup over Locklear.  Diehl is a waste of space now.

I  can understand making a case for Diehl going and I do not necessarily disagree with that.  But why in the world would you call a player who has been an integral part of our team for 10 years, including 2 Super Bowl victories, has been a warrior, has done every thing the team has asked, has been versatile, etc. trash?  I hate when Giants fans find it necessary to denigrate our players in such personal terms.  It reflects on the one doing the denigrating, not the one being denigrated.

Bad form.  Very bad form.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather be a disappointed optimist than a vindicated pessimist.

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Posted: 1/5/2013 10:57 PM

Re: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 


BamaBlue

Great post. Rolling with the Tide Monday night?
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Posted: 1/6/2013 11:00 AM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 



Todge wrote: Bradshaw and Canty are not being cut under any conditions. It is not like the Giants are loaded at either of those positions. 

When healthy, Canty is the Giant's best interior lineman.  Not going anywhere.

Who else would want Blackburn?  He is the slowest MLB in the entire league.  Great story, great heart, but has zero lateral agility and quickness to run down RBs on the outside.
I beg to differ on the Bradshaw point.  Wilson and Brown have shown they can do very well when given the chance, and in Brown's case when he isn't injured.

For Canty, you mentioned it yourself.  When Healthy.  The guy has been injured half the time he's been here and is grossly overpaid.  He's getting Geno Atkins money for a perfomance that is barely over half what he does on the field.


CAGiantFan wrote:
TheShade wrote:
OG/OT David Diehl - GET RID OF THIS PIECE OF TRASH ASAP!!!!!!  I swear, he's always getting beat and letting pressure get to Eli.  Or giving up sacks.  He can't pass block or run block.  I'm still trying to figure out what Coughlin, Killdrive, and the OL coach were thinking when they re-inserted him into the lineup over Locklear.  Diehl is a waste of space now.

I  can understand making a case for Diehl going and I do not necessarily disagree with that.  But why in the world would you call a player who has been an integral part of our team for 10 years, including 2 Super Bowl victories, has been a warrior, has done every thing the team has asked, has been versatile, etc. trash?  I hate when Giants fans find it necessary to denigrate our players in such personal terms.  It reflects on the one doing the denigrating, not the one being denigrated.

Bad form.  Very bad form.
Have you seen him play the last 2 years?  He was horrible when he moved to Guard, then to RT.  He can't run block, barely pass block, gives up pressure pretty much every time.  Even last year when they won the Super Bowl.  Jump on me all you want, its not going to change my opinion that Diehl was playing like trash, because he was.
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Posted: 1/6/2013 4:09 PM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 



CAGiantFan wrote:
I  can understand making a case for Diehl going and I do not necessarily disagree with that.  But why in the world would you call a player who has been an integral part of our team for 10 years, including 2 Super Bowl victories, has been a warrior, has done every thing the team has asked, has been versatile, etc. trash?  I hate when Giants fans find it necessary to denigrate our players in such personal terms.  It reflects on the one doing the denigrating, not the one being denigrated.

Bad form.  Very bad form.

Shade wrote:
Have you seen him play the last 2 years?  He was horrible when he moved to Guard, then to RT.  He can't run block, barely pass block, gives up pressure pretty much every time.  Even last year when they won the Super Bowl.  Jump on me all you want, its not going to change my opinion that Diehl was playing like trash, because he was.
You didn't say he played like trash, although that would also be pretty offensive, since there are a lot of better ways to day you thought he played poorly.  You said he WAS trash.  Which was a pretty trashy thing to do.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather be a disappointed optimist than a vindicated pessimist.

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Posted: 1/6/2013 7:49 PM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 



TheShade wrote:
S Kenny Phillips - Yes you bring Kenny back, but try to do it on a TT type deal to show he can play without getting injured. All the teams know about the microfracture surgery. Hopefully the Giants can play that card to get him to stay at a reduced price. I don't want people to hear people say "Well we have Stevie Brown and Will Hill." Stevie Brown freelances and is out of position. Will Hill is entering his 2nd season. Kenny might not flash the big INT stats like Stevie does, but Kenny does his job shutting down whoever he has to cover. He can also play the run. Notice how the Giants never used the 3 safety set without Phillips around. Its cause Fewell knows that Kenny was the key person in the 3 safety set.

yo, agree.

problem, he has not been able to stay on the field. thats my issue now. love his game otherwise. get on the field.
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Posted: 1/6/2013 9:06 PM

RE: 2013 Who Stays and Who Goes (Long Version)... 



NapoleonBlownapart wrote:
TheShade wrote:
S Kenny Phillips - Yes you bring Kenny back, but try to do it on a TT type deal to show he can play without getting injured. All the teams know about the microfracture surgery. Hopefully the Giants can play that card to get him to stay at a reduced price. I don't want people to hear people say "Well we have Stevie Brown and Will Hill." Stevie Brown freelances and is out of position. Will Hill is entering his 2nd season. Kenny might not flash the big INT stats like Stevie does, but Kenny does his job shutting down whoever he has to cover. He can also play the run. Notice how the Giants never used the 3 safety set without Phillips around. Its cause Fewell knows that Kenny was the key person in the 3 safety set.

yo, agree.

problem, he has not been able to stay on the field. thats my issue now. love his game otherwise. get on the field.
Thats why I said he should be offered a TT type contract, one year to show he can do it and then go from there.  I think the Giants can get the upper hand by showing that to Phillips.  Phillips doesn't really have a bargining chip outside of a team looking to take a chance on him, knee problems and all.
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