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Spielmann

Posted: 8/12/2014 1:56 PM

Spielmann 


I really believe he is bringing in quality players at every spot in the draft.  The problem historically is that the later picks needed some development and were not getting it from the coaching staffs.  I am convinced Hodges would have washed out had we stayed with Frazier.  Often we blame Spielmann for these "busts" but I don't believe they are all his fault.  With this new coaching staff, they can take these development guys and turn them into good players.  Bravo to Turner and Z..
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Posted: 8/12/2014 2:31 PM

Re: Spielmann 


i put a lot of blame for our so-called busts on poor coaching. most late-round picks don't amount to much, but good coaching can at least turn some of them into solid contributors. under the old coaching regime they were pretty much guaranteed to suck. if you look at our late round picks the only ones who have become quality players were Blair Walsh, John Sullivan and Brandon Fusco. a kicker and two centers, two positions that are generally drafted late.
"I choked." -- Brett Favre
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Posted: 8/12/2014 2:57 PM

Re: Spielmann 


There are differing opinions on how well Spielman has drafted in the past or the role/say/influence he has had on who the Vikings drafted.

Coaching/Scheme aspect is brought up as a common cause of players not developing.

Since RS has been promoted to GM it is his responsibility alone at the top for the players drafted and the coaching that has been hired.

Moving forward I don't think poor coaching will be a viable excuse for drafted players failing. There will be BUSTS, its part of the NFL and it happens.


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Posted: 8/12/2014 3:54 PM

Re: Spielmann 


Spielman should have been thrown out w/ the rest of the garbage at Winter Park last December. The Vikings organization grew by leaps and bounds by hiring a legit coaching staff this offseason, and it will grow even more w/ the addition of a legit GM.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 4:02 PM

Re: Spielmann 



AnthonyCarter wrote: Spielman should have been thrown out w/ the rest of the garbage at Winter Park last December. The Vikings organization grew by leaps and bounds by hiring a legit coaching staff this offseason, and it will grow even more w/ the addition of a legit GM.

you are such a breath of fresh air on this board. i mean, it's not like i could close this thread and find that exact quote in another one. you're too original for that.
"I choked." -- Brett Favre
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Posted: 8/12/2014 4:04 PM

Re: Spielmann 



hauts81 wrote:
 
you are such a breath of fresh air on this board.
I'm one of the few out there that call it like it is, so I know exactly where you're coming from with this.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 5:47 PM

Re: Spielmann 



AnthonyCarter wrote:
hauts81 wrote:
 
you are such a breath of fresh air on this board.
I'm one of the few out there that call it like it is, so I know exactly where you're coming from with this.
Nah, you just cry and moan about everything.  That way, when things can and do inevitably go wrong, you can puff out your chest and proclaim how awesome a prognosticator you are, conveniently ignoring anything that works out well.  Now granted, not much has worked out well in the past few years, and you'll undoubtedly lay all that at Spielman's feet - but have you stopped to consider how he's been shackled for most of his tenure here?  First with the ridiculous TOA, and then by being handcuffed by not being able to pick his own coach, instead being saddled with the in-house option.

He's added a ton of talent in the last few years, you won't find many (if any) reputable national sources that haven't given Rick very high marks over the last 2-3 drafts.  Now that he's finally given free reign to bring in his own staff, all he did was go out and get a guy that's brought more enthusiasm to this fanbase than we've seen in ages.  How about keeping an open mind and seeing what kind of progress we make this year?  Hearing about guys like Floyd and Hodges lighting it up in practice/camps this year has us all excited about what these guys can do with real leadership at the helm.  So get on the boat now bro or you're going to look really stupid when this thing gets turned around.

Or you can go ahead and keep doing your "realism" thing, all the while hoping for another tanked season so you can tell us all how right you are.  I swear, guys like you must cheer for more losses just so you can come here and whine.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 5:49 PM

Re: Spielmann 



AnthonyCarter wrote:
hauts81 wrote:
 
you are such a breath of fresh air on this board.
I'm one of the few out there that call it like it is, so I know exactly where you're coming from with this.

you call it like you see it. over and over and over and over...
"I choked." -- Brett Favre
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Posted: 8/12/2014 6:57 PM

Re: Spielmann 



AnthonyCarter wrote: Spielman should have been thrown out w/ the rest of the garbage at Winter Park last December. The Vikings organization grew by leaps and bounds by hiring a legit coaching staff this offseason, and it will grow even more w/ the addition of a legit GM.

     Not ready to throw Spielman out with the garbage.  That said, should things not go well, he is now the chief architect with his hand picked HC.  I would say that his head is next on the platter if things go wrong.

     The good is I believe Zimmer was a good choice.  I also think Zimmer did a good job of attracting coaching talent to work under him.  I think Spielman has a good chance of success due to the people he now has coaching the team.

     I always felt Frazier was hamstrung in terms of his tenure never being on solid ground, thus limiting the talent available to work under him.  No, no, not saying Frazier should have stayed.  It was time to make a change.  Liking Frazier has nothing to do with knowing it was time for a change.



Found out my Ipad is an etch a sketch, and I'm out of wine







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Posted: 8/12/2014 7:51 PM

Re: Spielmann 


There is another factor. Under Frazier, you needed 5 or 6 outstanding (all pro) defensive players (like Jared) who played the entire game and excelled at a specific role.  Under Zimmer's defense, he needs 22 (or so) good (blue collar) defensive players who rotate, shift positions, play their butts off, and keep the offense guessing. With the right GM and coaches, it's pretty easy to find 22 solid, blue collar players. It's almost impossible to consistently have 5 or 6 healthy players on defense playing at an all pro level.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 7:56 PM

Re: Spielmann 


I think I would give Spielman an A- total for all of his drafts since he became GM. However, I would give him a B for his acquisitions in FA. Definitely a top 8 GM IMO.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 8:04 PM

Re: Spielmann 


very interesting observation about Cover 2. The best Cover 2, the Tampa 2, had Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, John Lynch, and others. Offenses did not know how to dissect the Cover 2 back then.

Now, offenses know how to dissect the Cover 2.  Last year, an aging D line, weak linebackers, and a weaker secondary made the D awful.

I look forward to seeing the Vikes run a D that works with good but not great players.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 8:20 PM

Re: Spielmann 



Viking Tom wrote:
AnthonyCarter wrote: Spielman should have been thrown out w/ the rest of the garbage at Winter Park last December. The Vikings organization grew by leaps and bounds by hiring a legit coaching staff this offseason, and it will grow even more w/ the addition of a legit GM.

     Not ready to throw Spielman out with the garbage.  That said, should things not go well, he is now the chief architect with his hand picked HC.  I would say that his head is next on the platter if things go wrong.

     The good is I believe Zimmer was a good choice.  I also think Zimmer did a good job of attracting coaching talent to work under him.  I think Spielman has a good chance of success due to the people he now has coaching the team.

     I always felt Frazier was hamstrung in terms of his tenure never being on solid ground, thus limiting the talent available to work under him.  No, no, not saying Frazier should have stayed.  It was time to make a change.  Liking Frazier has nothing to do with knowing it was time for a change.
Of the new HC hires, I honestly believe RS got the best one...that is even over Lovie..

I was never a fan of the Frazier hire. Just did not think he would be a good choice, along with his bringing McNabb in. We would have been far better off with Hasslebeck. I felt Childress blew it by hiring a staff lacking in experience so he could groom them. If he was an experienced HC, then I could see it, but he was a 1st time HC himself.

Anyway, definitely time to move on...Drafting is at best an educated guess. No way of absolutely telling who is going to translate their game to the pro level compared to those who will be busts. Players have some responsibility for their own development as well. Anyways, truly hard for me to talk about RS head on the platter since he, IMO, has made a lot of outstanding draft picks and moves.
Born and raised a Viking fan!
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Posted: 8/12/2014 8:42 PM

Re: Spielmann 


So when the rest of us call it like it is and you do not agree then i guess you are right and the rest is wrong. Even though you are out numbered 50-1. rolleyes
AnthonyCarter wrote:
hauts81 wrote:
 
you are such a breath of fresh air on this board.
I'm one of the few out there that call it like it is, so I know exactly where you're coming from with this.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 8:49 PM

Re: Spielmann 



AnthonyCarter wrote: Spielman should have been thrown out w/ the rest of the garbage at Winter Park last December. The Vikings organization grew by leaps and bounds by hiring a legit coaching staff this offseason, and it will grow even more w/ the addition of a legit GM.
So, the organization grew by leaps and bounds with the coaching hiring and you want to fire the man who decided which HC to hire?  It seems to me that the more say Spielman gets, the more nuts that blind squirrel finds.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 9:08 PM

Re: Spielmann 


I look at his body of work and consider him a failure. In 24 years at some aspect of drafting, personnel, and GM the teams he has been involved with have won the division only 5 times and made the playoff 9 times. I would consider that unsuccessful. He is also the common denominator in the last two coaching failures. Not necessarily blaming him for their demise but it is a fact.
The other teams he was with were also impressed with his attention to detail in compiling stats and formulas for grading prospect but he just didn't seem to know how to use his findings to draft or sign the right players. That said, maybe he has finally cracked to code and will great. I guess we will find out.
I reserve the right to criticize him, he hasn't yet earned a free pass with me.

_______________________________________________________

"It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man." --
Jack Handy

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Posted: 8/12/2014 9:27 PM

Re: Spielmann 


I understand how you feel but everyone gets better in this league every year as you learn more or you are not around very long in this league. I would only judge him as a Viking.  McCarthy, coach for GB  never won anywhere and coach bad offenses before doing well in Green Bay.   Now you should judge Spielman the last three years now that he does have control.  Before that a number of guys had a hand in it.  Even the owners hiring coaches. This is Spielman first coach hire with the Vikings and we will see how well these last three drafts turn out but right now they look dam good so far.
royalpurple wrote: I look at his body of work and consider him a failure. In 24 years at some aspect of drafting, personnel, and GM the teams he has been involved with have won the division only 5 times and made the playoff 9 times. I would consider that unsuccessful. He is also the common denominator in the last two coaching failures. Not necessarily blaming him for their demise but it is a fact.
The other teams he was with were also impressed with his attention to detail in compiling stats and formulas for grading prospect but he just didn't seem to know how to use his findings to draft or sign the right players. That said, maybe he has finally cracked to code and will great. I guess we will find out.
I reserve the right to criticize him, he hasn't yet earned a free pass with me.

Last edited 8/12/2014 9:31 PM by ugotbud222

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Posted: 8/12/2014 9:28 PM

Re: Spielmann 



royalpurple wrote: I look at his body of work and consider him a failure. In 24 years at some aspect of drafting, personnel, and GM the teams he has been involved with have won the division only 5 times and made the playoff 9 times. I would consider that unsuccessful. He is also the common denominator in the last two coaching failures. Not necessarily blaming him for their demise but it is a fact.
The other teams he was with were also impressed with his attention to detail in compiling stats and formulas for grading prospect but he just didn't seem to know how to use his findings to draft or sign the right players. That said, maybe he has finally cracked to code and will great. I guess we will find out.
I reserve the right to criticize him, he hasn't yet earned a free pass with me.

i reserve the right to help you get the facts straight. biggrin

Zygi Wilf is the common denominator in the failures of Childress and Frazier. Spielman wasn't even around when Zygi hired Childress.
"I choked." -- Brett Favre
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Posted: 8/12/2014 10:00 PM

Re: Spielmann 



Never let facts get in the way.

---------------------------------------------
--- hauts81 wrote:


royalpurple wrote: I look at his body of work and consider him a failure. In 24 years at some aspect of drafting, personnel, and GM the teams he has been involved with have won the division only 5 times and made the playoff 9 times. I would consider that unsuccessful. He is also the common denominator in the last two coaching failures. Not necessarily blaming him for their demise but it is a fact.
The other teams he was with were also impressed with his attention to detail in compiling stats and formulas for grading prospect but he just didn't seem to know how to use his findings to draft or sign the right players. That said, maybe he has finally cracked to code and will great. I guess we will find out.
I reserve the right to criticize him, he hasn't yet earned a free pass with me.

i reserve the right to help you get the facts straight. biggrin

Zygi Wilf is the common denominator in the failures of Childress and Frazier. Spielman wasn't even around when Zygi hired Childress.

---------------------------------------------


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Posted: 8/12/2014 10:10 PM

Re: Spielmann 



hauts81 wrote:
royalpurple wrote: I look at his body of work and consider him a failure. In 24 years at some aspect of drafting, personnel, and GM the teams he has been involved with have won the division only 5 times and made the playoff 9 times. I would consider that unsuccessful. He is also the common denominator in the last two coaching failures. Not necessarily blaming him for their demise but it is a fact.
The other teams he was with were also impressed with his attention to detail in compiling stats and formulas for grading prospect but he just didn't seem to know how to use his findings to draft or sign the right players. That said, maybe he has finally cracked to code and will great. I guess we will find out.
I reserve the right to criticize him, he hasn't yet earned a free pass with me.

i reserve the right to help you get the facts straight. biggrin

Zygi Wilf is the common denominator in the failures of Childress and Frazier. Spielman wasn't even around when Zygi hired Childress.
That, and Frazier was an obvious "money saver" with Childress' salary still on the books. Those coaching hires are on Ziggy as far as I'm concerned. I think the last four drafts and the Zimmer hire have Spielman's fingerprints all over them.
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