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Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation'

Posted: 6/17/2014 9:16 PM

Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


Vikings: Norv Turner says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation'

Christian Ponder might be the forgotten man among Vikings quarterbacks, but new offensive coordinator Norv Turner is unwilling to bury the former No. 12 overall pick.

The competition for first-team reps between presumptive starter Matt Cassel and rookie Teddy Bridgewater has marginalized Ponder, whom the Vikings declined to offer a contract extension following an uninspiring 2013 season in which he twice was benched.

But Turner insisted Tuesday that there is no hierarchy among his three quarterbacks.

On the opening day of a voluntary, three-day minicamp, Turner called Bridgewater "as natural a passer as I've been around" and said Cassel "has started a lot of games and won a lot of games.

Offensive coordinator Norv Turner pumps his fist during Vikings minicamp in Eden Prairie on Tuesday.  (Pioneer Press: Ben Garvin)
Offensive coordinator Norv Turner pumps his fist during Vikings minicamp in Eden Prairie on Tuesday. (Pioneer Press: Ben Garvin)

"

But he also went out of his way to defend Ponder from criticism that he has not developed into a bona fide starter despite inheriting the job in 2012.

"I just feel bad for him, that the perception of him, because of what's happened the last few years, is so negative," Turner said. "I see him really as a talented guy who has an upside, and who's going to have a really good career in this league."

Coach Mike Zimmer said he has no timetable for naming a starting quarterback, adding that he won't rush into making a decision before or during training camp, which opens July 25 in Mankato.

"That is good news," Ponder said.

Cassel has been taking most of the first-team reps in practices open to the media. Bridgewater was given a look with the No. 1 offense Tuesday and has been taking more second-team snaps than Ponder. Those will be narrowed further once training camp starts.

"I'm not getting as many reps as the other guys," Ponder said. "Whatever reps I'm getting, I'm trying to do the best I can. I know they're trying to get Teddy ready. Hopefully, I get a real chance in the preseason games."

Unofficial statistics from Tuesday's full-team scrimmages: Bridgewater finished 13 of 15 overall and 4 for 4 under first-team center, Cassel was 8 for 9 and Ponder 4 for 4.

Minnesota's quarterback position was a three-headed monster in 2013, becoming the most conspicuous thread in the team's 5-10-1 season, after which coach Leslie Frazier was fired.

"You'd like to think as you go through you're not in a situation where you'd play three guys, but it's happened before," Turner said. "Teams that have depth at quarterback tend to fight through some tough times, so I like our quarterback situation.

"I think you can create a scenario, and put it together, for all of them to start."

Cassel was 3-3 as Minnesota's starter in 2013 and won another game after relieving an injured Ponder. During a 48-30 Week 15 victory over Philadelphia, Cassel passed for 382 yards and two touchdowns.

Vikings quarterback Christian Ponder throws during Vikings minicamp in Eden Prairie on Tuesday.  (Pioneer Press: Ben Garvin)
Vikings quarterback Christian Ponder throws during Vikings minicamp in Eden Prairie on Tuesday. (Pioneer Press: Ben Garvin)

He finished the season with 1,807 yards, 11 touchdown passes and nine interceptions, and his 248-yard, two-touchdown performance in a 34-27 victory Sept. 29 over Pittsburgh in London saved the Vikings from an 0-4 start.

But Cassel was quickly benched in favor of Ponder after a poor performance the following game in a home loss to Carolina.

The Vikings stubbornly backed an ineffective Ponder, then desperately tried to salvage their season with the bye-week signing of longtime Tampa Bay starter Josh Freeman, whose woeful performance in a road loss to the then-winless New York Giants led to his banishment.

Ponder, however, failed to hold on to the No. 1 job, or reclaim it when Cassel and Freeman stumbled. He is saddled with a 14-20-1 record as a starter.

But in 2012, his second pro season, Ponder played every snap as the Vikings finished 10-6 and clinched a wild-card playoff berth. They also rode an MVP-performance from running back Adrian Peterson, who rushed for 2,097 yards while Ponder managed a pedestrian passing attack.

"I've coached quarterbacks with great backs, and it's a really tough position to be in," Turner said. "When you win, the back gets all the credit, and when you lose, it's the quarterback's fault. There's really no in between, and it's never that cut and dried.

"I think Ponder played awfully well in a tough situation as a young player. It's to your benefit to have Adrian as a young player, but you've got to use it to your benefit. You've got to do some things that make it easy for the quarterback to play. I think when they did that, Ponder played well."

Follow Brian Murphy on twitter.com/murphPPress.

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Posted: 6/17/2014 9:23 PM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


Smart. Pump him up to increase the trade value. Would not be smart to say anything negative.


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Posted: 6/17/2014 9:46 PM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


Thats how I read it.

They mentioned 2012, I'd like to add that AD had more yards per carry than Ponder had yards per pass. Thats 16 games not just a cherry picked stat.


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--- Viper05 wrote:

Smart. Pump him up to increase the trade value. Would not be smart to say anything negative.

---------------------------------------------
Vikings-Sooners-Thunder
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Posted: 6/17/2014 10:14 PM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


I doubt it's about trade value. He got an unbiased look at real coaches tape of him, and there is 0 doubt there is a large difference in coordinating abilities between Musgrave and Turner. I'm sure he's laughed at some of the game plans already.
....I've Been There Done That, Bought the T-Shirt .... Just Say'n, Do Some Research....
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Posted: 6/17/2014 10:52 PM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


Hmm. . .

In 2012 Ponder had a 62.1% completion percentage, a 6.1 yard average, a 2.5 Int % and a 81.2 QB rating in his second NFL season
In 2012 Cassel had a 58.1% completion percentage, a 6.5 yard average, a 4.3 Int % and a 66.7 QB rating in his eighth NFL season

Maybe a teensey bit cherry picky?

So yeah, technically true, but that also might give a hint why Norv isn't willing to commit to Cassel just yet either.

Of course, I'm sure Norv'll also bring those numbers up as part of the whole 'improving the offense' process. :) 


plunderingpurple wrote: Thats how I read it.

They mentioned 2012, I'd like to add that AD had more yards per carry than Ponder had yards per pass. Thats 16 games not just a cherry picked stat.


---------------------------------------------
--- Viper05 wrote:

Smart. Pump him up to increase the trade value. Would not be smart to say anything negative.

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Last edited 6/17/2014 11:24 PM by MasterSlacks

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Posted: 6/17/2014 10:54 PM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


I took that as a pretty big slam at musgrave and the previous coaching staff......and rightfully so. Not sure if Andrew Luck would've faired too well in that offensive scheme either. Not defending Ponder, he has a lot of work to do if he's to be a legit starter but just agreeing with Norv.

Last edited 6/17/2014 10:54 PM by greatvikenorth

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Posted: 6/17/2014 11:11 PM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 



plunderingpurple wrote: Thats how I read it.

They mentioned 2012, I'd like to add that AD had more yards per carry than Ponder had yards per pass. Thats 16 games not just a cherry picked stat.


---------------------------------------------
--- Viper05 wrote:

Smart. Pump him up to increase the trade value. Would not be smart to say anything negative.

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YIKES!

what a horrible stat for ponder. 


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Posted: 6/18/2014 2:20 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


That's how I read it as well. I too imagine that Turner was smiling about how ineffective of offensive schemes were run throughout the last several years under the previous clowns.

Although, Turner did say Ponder "...who's going to have a really good career. in this league..." Meaning to me that he will have his shot elsewhere, because Bridge is our future in the minds of the staff and everyone here. It's Ponder's small shot in TC to change that perception.

I like our QBs, actually. I hope all 3 stay. We have an aging vet, a rookie with star-power potential, and a young guy who has potential yet has underwhelmed in small window of opportunity with a bunch of bozos running him into the ground.


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--- greatvikenorth wrote:

I took that as a pretty big slam at musgrave and the previous coaching staff......and rightfully so. Not sure if Andrew Luck would've faired too well in that offensive scheme either. Not defending Ponder, he has a lot of work to do if he's to be a legit starter but just agreeing with Norv.

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Last edited 6/18/2014 2:24 AM by IceRatz16

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Posted: 6/18/2014 4:10 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


I actually think the VIkings with Norv are in a great situation.

I agree that Ponder was poorly developed and he did not step on his own either which clearly was a possibility and says something about his mind set.

Cassel is a stop gap QB, a decent one for a moment but not long term, both Ponder and Bridgewater have more long term ability. Cassel though can come away from this year making a lot of money. If the Vikings win 10 games or more and Cassel was the starter at least half of the season next year a team will sign him as a starter without question my guess is the Browns will need a viable starter next season.

Ponder also has some ability to build value. I do believe he will get into a game or two this season. He will have a chance to show he has turned a corner. Now the question is, with Bridgewater the long term answer in Minny and Ponder not much older, will the VIkings be interested in keep him as a long term number two QB? I do not believe Cassel will sign again to play behind Bridgewater,if he would be willing than I think it would be great idea, but my guess is he will want to start. If Ponder would be willing to sign a contract maybe 3 years as the back up he may increase his value over another season or two into a legit starting caliber QB and be a more long term answer for someone. My guess is the Cowboys...
Matt Kalil has a grizzly bear rug in his room. The Bear isn't dead it is just afraid to move. "Purple Beserker"
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Posted: 6/18/2014 5:25 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


I think the Vikings actions speak to me more loudly than their words.
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  • wonka22
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Posted: 6/18/2014 6:57 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


At least one of the best OC's to ever coach in this league is also a realist,like myself and many of you are too.Ponder had a horrible situation his first 3 years.Musgrave was so bad as an OC,that even though he had the best rb in the league,he couldn't get more out of this team/offense.I think that is a point too many are missing,instead of blaming the qb,who is only allowed to run the play that is called and cannot audible for a failed passing output,how about laying the blame squarely where it really should be at the feet of the guy calling all the shots? The scheme was altered in the eagles and steelers games bigtime.If you watch even the games the week before and after those two,you'll see a night and day difference on how we allowed the qb's to throw on better passing downs,and it set AP up much better than running right into 8-9 man fronts like we forced the offense to do in early games,losses and lesser passing outputs...coincidence,not.
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Posted: 6/18/2014 7:07 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 



wonka22 wrote: At least one of the best OC's to ever coach in this league is also a realist,like myself and many of you are too.Ponder had a horrible situation his first 3 years.Musgrave was so bad as an OC,that even though he had the best rb in the league,he couldn't get more out of this team/offense.I think that is a point too many are missing,instead of blaming the qb,who is only allowed to run the play that is called and cannot audible for a failed passing output,how about laying the blame squarely where it really should be at the feet of the guy calling all the shots? The scheme was altered in the eagles and steelers games bigtime.If you watch even the games the week before and after those two,you'll see a night and day difference on how we allowed the qb's to throw on better passing downs,and it set AP up much better than running right into 8-9 man fronts like we forced the offense to do in early games,losses and lesser passing outputs...coincidence,not.
wonka, you and I both have been touting the same message for awhile now.  It's not changing anyone.  For how logical it may seem to you and I (and a few others), it doesn't translate to the Ponder haters.  They are on their wagon and they are not jumping ship anytime soon.  The clowns who coached this team over the last three years were so clueless, it was almost laughable.  In another post, it was mentioned how Brad Johnson is the last QB on our team to have 2 winning seasons.  That is pretty clear that coaching had a lot to do with that, especially since Culpepper had MVP-like stats at least 3 years, if you include rushing tds.

Looking forward, we are in a much better situation and I believe all of us have a rejuvenated feeling of excitement. I cannot wait for PS to start.
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Posted: 6/18/2014 7:10 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 



MasterSlacks wrote: Hmm. . .

In 2012 Ponder had a 62.1% completion percentage, a 6.1 yard average, a 2.5 Int % and a 81.2 QB rating in his second NFL season
In 2012 Cassel had a 58.1% completion percentage, a 6.5 yard average, a 4.3 Int % and a 66.7 QB rating in his eighth NFL season

Maybe a teensey bit cherry picky?

So yeah, technically true, but that also might give a hint why Norv isn't willing to commit to Cassel just yet either.

Of course, I'm sure Norv'll also bring those numbers up as part of the whole 'improving the offense' process. :) 


plunderingpurple wrote: Thats how I read it.

They mentioned 2012, I'd like to add that AD had more yards per carry than Ponder had yards per pass. Thats 16 games not just a cherry picked stat.


---------------------------------------------
--- Viper05 wrote:

Smart. Pump him up to increase the trade value. Would not be smart to say anything negative.

---------------------------------------------
Actually, it's not even technically true.  AD had 6.0 yards per carry while Ponder had 6.1 yards per attempt.  I believe the poster is confusing yards per pass with net yards per attempt (i.e. includes sacks).   Other teams in 2012 that had a NY/A < 6.0 include Chicago and Chargers and Cassel's team KC.  Not that the season itself isn't a clear statistical anomaly by choosing one of the greatest rushing seasons the NFL has seen. WIth the year Peterson had, more than 1 OC would get conservative with the passing game.
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Posted: 6/18/2014 7:20 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 



IceRatz16 wrote:
wonka22 wrote: At least one of the best OC's to ever coach in this league is also a realist,like myself and many of you are too.Ponder had a horrible situation his first 3 years.Musgrave was so bad as an OC,that even though he had the best rb in the league,he couldn't get more out of this team/offense.I think that is a point too many are missing,instead of blaming the qb,who is only allowed to run the play that is called and cannot audible for a failed passing output,how about laying the blame squarely where it really should be at the feet of the guy calling all the shots? The scheme was altered in the eagles and steelers games bigtime.If you watch even the games the week before and after those two,you'll see a night and day difference on how we allowed the qb's to throw on better passing downs,and it set AP up much better than running right into 8-9 man fronts like we forced the offense to do in early games,losses and lesser passing outputs...coincidence,not.
wonka, you and I both have been touting the same message for awhile now.  It's not changing anyone.  For how logical it may seem to you and I (and a few others), it doesn't translate to the Ponder haters.  They are on their wagon and they are not jumping ship anytime soon.  The clowns who coached this team over the last three years were so clueless, it was almost laughable.  In another post, it was mentioned how Brad Johnson is the last QB on our team to have 2 winning seasons.  That is pretty clear that coaching had a lot to do with that, especially since Culpepper had MVP-like stats at least 3 years, if you include rushing tds.

Looking forward, we are in a much better situation and I believe all of us have a rejuvenated feeling of excitement. I cannot wait for PS to start.
I don't know if you would call me a Ponder hater. Because someone doesn't believe in someone dose it make him a hater... I didn't care for Ponder as our pick.. I didn't think or wasn't that impressed with him in college... But we made that choice... So I cheered him on, I hoped that he would pan out to be a great Viking starter, he would be our long term answer at qb... But after three years I didn't see enough improvement, enough forward progress to trust or believe in him as our answer. What I saw was that he wasn't our answer... Does that make me a hater, I consider myself a realist. Maybe to much so... I believe what is, is... fans can talk about if we make this trade, we pick up that player or this player, we are going to release this player or what ever... None of that matters unless the Vikings management decides to make those moves.

_---------------------------------------------------
Roll Tide. Take it back in 2014/15
Go SEC
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Posted: 6/18/2014 7:22 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 



IceRatz16 wrote:
wonka22 wrote: At least one of the best OC's to ever coach in this league is also a realist,like myself and many of you are too.Ponder had a horrible situation his first 3 years.Musgrave was so bad as an OC,that even though he had the best rb in the league,he couldn't get more out of this team/offense.I think that is a point too many are missing,instead of blaming the qb,who is only allowed to run the play that is called and cannot audible for a failed passing output,how about laying the blame squarely where it really should be at the feet of the guy calling all the shots? The scheme was altered in the eagles and steelers games bigtime.If you watch even the games the week before and after those two,you'll see a night and day difference on how we allowed the qb's to throw on better passing downs,and it set AP up much better than running right into 8-9 man fronts like we forced the offense to do in early games,losses and lesser passing outputs...coincidence,not.
wonka, you and I both have been touting the same message for awhile now.  It's not changing anyone.  For how logical it may seem to you and I (and a few others), it doesn't translate to the Ponder haters.  They are on their wagon and they are not jumping ship anytime soon.  The clowns who coached this team over the last three years were so clueless, it was almost laughable.  In another post, it was mentioned how Brad Johnson is the last QB on our team to have 2 winning seasons.  That is pretty clear that coaching had a lot to do with that, especially since Culpepper had MVP-like stats at least 3 years, if you include rushing tds.

Looking forward, we are in a much better situation and I believe all of us have a rejuvenated feeling of excitement. I cannot wait for PS to start.

I think the two of you are a bit delusional and disingenuous.

Everyone wants to blame Musgrave.  OK.  Go ahead.  If it makes you feel better then that is a good thing.

Let's look at the start of last season.  Ponder commits 4 turnovers in a division game to start off the season.  He should have had a pick 6 but was saved first by stupid Suh and then by the defense who got the ball right back.
What was Musgrave suppose to call when his QB starts off the season playing like horse manure?

Then vs Chicago he actually does throw a pick 6.  How confident would you be in this QB who had over 27 starts at that point in time and who you thought would be improving especially after the way he finished the year in 2012?

Are you going to continue to call plays where he has to more difficult throws or reads?

At the end of the Browns game all Ponder had to do was complete a simple down and out to Jennings on 3rd and 4 to continue a drive and possibly even run out of the clock.  He failed.

At the end of the Cowboys game he had a chance to hit Jennings on a 3rd down play to extend a drive that started after the undermanned defense caused a turnover giving the ball to the offense on the Dallas 41 yard line.  He did not even see a wide open Jennings.

What is Musgrave suppose to do when his QB cannot complete simple plays or be consistent?

Too much blame is placed on Musgrave by those people who are basically lazy and do not want to see the whole picture.  There must be some reason why Musgrave was hired to be a QBs coach by the Eagles.  Chip Kelly must be an idiot.  Why would he hire such an awful coach to work with his QBs?  Look what he did with Ponder?

The reality of the situation is Ponder got hurt way too often which led to his inconsistency.  Every year he got hurt.  If he cannot stay on the field then he cannot become more consistent.

I am it is Musgrave's fault for Ponder getting hurt too.

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Posted: 6/18/2014 7:41 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


Let me know when the Vikings start giving Ponder significant reps and move him above Cassel or Bridgewater. Otherwise he buried at third string. It should tell you all you need to know about how he is viewed by the Vikings and their coaching staff.

Last edited 6/18/2014 7:58 AM by formerlypurplewhizz

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Posted: 6/18/2014 7:52 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


How many times has Musgrave failed as an OC on different teams. 3x now? Did he get hired some where else as an OC or get a promotion for his job here?

How many times did we see him dial up plays rolling QB out to the left, after watching the play fail miserably earlier in the game. How many times did we line up all 11 offensive players inside the hash marks and then watch them trip over eachother trying to run routes press hammed like sardines? How many times did we see the same play called numerous times in a game? How many times could musgrave fit his game plan on a 3" x 5" card? If you dont allow your QB to audible at the pro level, which level of football is it ok to audible in? How many times did we see our team come out with a half time adjustment based on what the defense was doing to us in the first half? How many times did our team look completely out coached not just on offense but all facets? How many times did we have recievers running the same exact route not even far enough from eachother to deliver the ball to one of them. How many times did we see short plays called on 3rd and long?

Shall I keep going?? Im not saying this to defend Ponder, Im saying it to clear up the air that Musgrave is absolutely horrible as an OC, and you will be lucky if you see him hired for the position again.
IceRatz16 wrote:
wonka22 wrote: At least one of the best OC's to ever coach in this league is also a realist,like myself and many of you are too.Ponder had a horrible situation his first 3 years.Musgrave was so bad as an OC,that even though he had the best rb in the league,he couldn't get more out of this team/offense.I think that is a point too many are missing,instead of blaming the qb,who is only allowed to run the play that is called and cannot audible for a failed passing output,how about laying the blame squarely where it really should be at the feet of the guy calling all the shots? The scheme was altered in the eagles and steelers games bigtime.If you watch even the games the week before and after those two,you'll see a night and day difference on how we allowed the qb's to throw on better passing downs,and it set AP up much better than running right into 8-9 man fronts like we forced the offense to do in early games,losses and lesser passing outputs...coincidence,not.
wonka, you and I both have been touting the same message for awhile now.  It's not changing anyone.  For how logical it may seem to you and I (and a few others), it doesn't translate to the Ponder haters.  They are on their wagon and they are not jumping ship anytime soon.  The clowns who coached this team over the last three years were so clueless, it was almost laughable.  In another post, it was mentioned how Brad Johnson is the last QB on our team to have 2 winning seasons.  That is pretty clear that coaching had a lot to do with that, especially since Culpepper had MVP-like stats at least 3 years, if you include rushing tds.

Looking forward, we are in a much better situation and I believe all of us have a rejuvenated feeling of excitement. I cannot wait for PS to start.

I think the two of you are a bit delusional and disingenuous.

Everyone wants to blame Musgrave.  OK.  Go ahead.  If it makes you feel better then that is a good thing.

Let's look at the start of last season.  Ponder commits 4 turnovers in a division game to start off the season.  He should have had a pick 6 but was saved first by stupid Suh and then by the defense who got the ball right back.
What was Musgrave suppose to call when his QB starts off the season playing like horse manure?

Then vs Chicago he actually does throw a pick 6.  How confident would you be in this QB who had over 27 starts at that point in time and who you thought would be improving especially after the way he finished the year in 2012?

Are you going to continue to call plays where he has to more difficult throws or reads?

At the end of the Browns game all Ponder had to do was complete a simple down and out to Jennings on 3rd and 4 to continue a drive and possibly even run out of the clock.  He failed.

At the end of the Cowboys game he had a chance to hit Jennings on a 3rd down play to extend a drive that started after the undermanned defense caused a turnover giving the ball to the offense on the Dallas 41 yard line.  He did not even see a wide open Jennings.

What is Musgrave suppose to do when his QB cannot complete simple plays or be consistent?

Too much blame is placed on Musgrave by those people who are basically lazy and do not want to see the whole picture.  There must be some reason why Musgrave was hired to be a QBs coach by the Eagles.  Chip Kelly must be an idiot.  Why would he hire such an awful coach to work with his QBs?  Look what he did with Ponder?

The reality of the situation is Ponder got hurt way too often which led to his inconsistency.  Every year he got hurt.  If he cannot stay on the field then he cannot become more consistent.

I am it is Musgrave's fault for Ponder getting hurt too.

....I've Been There Done That, Bought the T-Shirt .... Just Say'n, Do Some Research....
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Posted: 6/18/2014 8:01 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


The same issues that plagued Ponder @ FSU plagued him here as well...This contention that ALL THE BLAME should be placed at Musgraves feet is nothing short of ridiculous.

Christian got more than a fair shot to win and keep the starting job more than once....Hell, he played defenses stacked to stop AD and they barely cared about defending the pass...That's an NFL QB's dream and Ponder couldn't beat it. 

Last year we stocked the offense chock full of weapons...Remember, it was the year of no more excuses!

Yet here comes another one..It's all Musgraves fault and the two games Cassel killed it in the oc changed the scheme rolleyes

And I'm not a Ponder hater either....I wish the kid well, wasn't his fault he was over-drafted noidea
wonka22 wrote: At least one of the best OC's to ever coach in this league is also a realist,like myself and many of you are too.Ponder had a horrible situation his first 3 years.Musgrave was so bad as an OC,that even though he had the best rb in the league,he couldn't get more out of this team/offense.I think that is a point too many are missing,instead of blaming the qb,who is only allowed to run the play that is called and cannot audible for a failed passing output,how about laying the blame squarely where it really should be at the feet of the guy calling all the shots? The scheme was altered in the eagles and steelers games bigtime.If you watch even the games the week before and after those two,you'll see a night and day difference on how we allowed the qb's to throw on better passing downs,and it set AP up much better than running right into 8-9 man fronts like we forced the offense to do in early games,losses and lesser passing outputs...coincidence,not.

Last edited 6/18/2014 8:07 AM by purplefaithful

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Posted: 6/18/2014 8:27 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 


If Ponder's problems were so entirely Musgrave's fault and any good offensive coordinator could see it, then someone would've offered a draft pick that would've been worth more to the Vikings than keeping a guy who is clearly on his way out and and is only going to be our 3rd string QB.
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Posted: 6/18/2014 8:41 AM

Re: Norv says Ponder 'played awfully well in a tough situation' 



purplefaithful wrote: The same issues that plagued Ponder @ FSU plagued him here as well...This contention that ALL THE BLAME should be placed at Musgraves feet is nothing short of ridiculous.

Christian got more than a fair shot to win and keep the starting job more than once....Hell, he played defenses stacked to stop AD and they barely cared about defending the pass...That's an NFL QB's dream and Ponder couldn't beat it. 

Last year we stocked the offense chock full of weapons...Remember, it was the year of no more excuses!

Yet here comes another one..It's all Musgraves fault and the two games Cassel killed it in the oc changed the scheme rolleyes

And I'm not a Ponder hater either....I wish the kid well, wasn't his fault he was over-drafted noidea
wonka22 wrote: At least one of the best OC's to ever coach in this league is also a realist,like myself and many of you are too.Ponder had a horrible situation his first 3 years.Musgrave was so bad as an OC,that even though he had the best rb in the league,he couldn't get more out of this team/offense.I think that is a point too many are missing,instead of blaming the qb,who is only allowed to run the play that is called and cannot audible for a failed passing output,how about laying the blame squarely where it really should be at the feet of the guy calling all the shots? The scheme was altered in the eagles and steelers games bigtime.If you watch even the games the week before and after those two,you'll see a night and day difference on how we allowed the qb's to throw on better passing downs,and it set AP up much better than running right into 8-9 man fronts like we forced the offense to do in early games,losses and lesser passing outputs...coincidence,not.
College is different than the pros, if you haven't noticed.  Let's look at one of the best QBs in the league; Tom Brady.  Tom fell to the late rounds based on his performance in college.  Why?  He wasn't flashy at Michigan, but he did win games late.  He comes into a situation in NE and was given a shot after a couple/few seasons behind Bledsoe.  During his time waiting and watching, he was improving, as he has been quoted giving the credit to his QB coach for helping him with his mechanics and giving him the confidence to play at the NFL level.

Guys, there's not an exact science on how a QB excels, but find a QB who has excelled and you'll find the HC or OC in the same sentence.  Wonka and my point (and others) for some time has been that our coaches were terrible.  They had no business being in the positions.  Ponder was the scapegoat for them and for fans, because he was the obvious wrinkle that we all could see.  I don't think either wonka or I have said that Ponder will be the next Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning.  However, we are saying that he deserves a shot with a real coaching staff.  Cassel is on the downhill slide of his career, where Ponder is still young and in his prime.
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