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Manziel and Bortles struggling

  • Vikagra
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:33 AM

Manziel and Bortles struggling 


These are the same kinds of reports we heard out of OTAs when our last two "highly drafted" QBs came in as rookies (TJ and Ponder).  And we all know how they turned out.  Sure we kept saying things similar to what they state in these articles to calm our nerves, but ultimately they both pretty much turned out to be busts (thus far).  (Not saying they are busts, but one thing all busts have in common is that they act like busts at some point in their careers)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/...nziel-struggles

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/j...43433--nfl.html

Last edited 6/6/2014 9:31 PM by Vikagra

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  • mrflynn
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:39 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


Manziel never saw a playbook until he was drafted. Bortles only had to read 1/4 to 1/2 the field in the offense he played in. It is not at all surprising they are having growing pains.

Bortles will develop faster then Manziel I bet. He is farther ahead in the learning curve, but has a slower reaction speed.
Is minic a bhris béal duine a shrón.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:55 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


Jaguars and Browns will be cursing themselves in two years
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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:02 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 



mrflynn wrote: Manziel never saw a playbook until he was drafted. Bortles only had to read 1/4 to 1/2 the field in the offense he played in. It is not at all surprising they are having growing pains.

Bortles will develop faster then Manziel I bet. He is farther ahead in the learning curve, but has a slower reaction speed.

I heard a lot of talk when coming to the qbs in this draft, that Bortles might have the highest upside, but it would be a while for him to reach that upside.. He wasn't going to be ready as quickly as the others... What I heard differs from him developing faster.

I am not sure with this reply...  I thought i read or heard that Bridgewater didn't use a play book either... I may be wrong. But how many kids coming out of college do?  Just wondering? 

But TB is the only one I am concerned with. He pertains to the team that I cheer and root for... I am not so concerned about the others whether they flop or stand out...

_---------------------------------------------------
Roll Tide. Take it back in 2014/15
Go SEC
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  • mrflynn
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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:08 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/79111/b rowns-playbook-is-manziels-first

Not sure how many college QBs did not have playbooks. It seems to me it should be very few.
Is minic a bhris béal duine a shrón.

Last edited 6/6/2014 8:10 AM by mrflynn

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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:12 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 



vikingfan52 wrote:
mrflynn wrote: Manziel never saw a playbook until he was drafted. Bortles only had to read 1/4 to 1/2 the field in the offense he played in. It is not at all surprising they are having growing pains.

Bortles will develop faster then Manziel I bet. He is farther ahead in the learning curve, but has a slower reaction speed.

I heard a lot of talk when coming to the qbs in this draft, that Bortles might have the highest upside, but it would be a while for him to reach that upside.. He wasn't going to be ready as quickly as the others... What I heard differs from him developing faster.

I am not sure with this reply...  I thought i read or heard that Bridgewater didn't use a play book either... I may be wrong. But how many kids coming out of college do?  Just wondering? 

But TB is the only one I am concerned with. He pertains to the team that I cheer and root for... I am not so concerned about the others whether they flop or stand out...
lol

bridgewater called his own plays. you don't think he knew the playbook or had a playbook or "used a playbook" ?

you pulled that one out of your arse didn't you?

Last edited 6/6/2014 8:15 AM by PassDaDutchie

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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:34 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


rolleyes  I think its a little early to be calling someone a bust. Just because you guys want them to be bust does not make it so. 
Vikagra wrote: These are the same kinds of reports we heard out of OTAs when our last two "highly drafted" QBs came in as rookies (TJ and Ponder).  And we all know how they turned out.  Sure we kept saying things similar to what they state in these articles to calm our nerves, but ultimately they both pretty much turned out to be busts (thus far).  (Not saying they are busts, but one thing all busts have in common is that they act like busts at some point in their careers)

http://nfl.si.com/2014/06/04/j...nd-browns-otas/

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/j...43433--nfl.html
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Posted: 6/6/2014 9:31 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


Pretty sure Teddy has said when he first got to UofL and got his play book, he programmed it into his XBox football game. I remember an interview he did at the combine talking about it, and called them his virtual reps.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 9:37 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 



PassDaDutchie wrote:
vikingfan52 wrote:
mrflynn wrote: Manziel never saw a playbook until he was drafted. Bortles only had to read 1/4 to 1/2 the field in the offense he played in. It is not at all surprising they are having growing pains.

Bortles will develop faster then Manziel I bet. He is farther ahead in the learning curve, but has a slower reaction speed.

I heard a lot of talk when coming to the qbs in this draft, that Bortles might have the highest upside, but it would be a while for him to reach that upside.. He wasn't going to be ready as quickly as the others... What I heard differs from him developing faster.

I am not sure with this reply...  I thought i read or heard that Bridgewater didn't use a play book either... I may be wrong. But how many kids coming out of college do?  Just wondering? 

But TB is the only one I am concerned with. He pertains to the team that I cheer and root for... I am not so concerned about the others whether they flop or stand out...
lol

bridgewater called his own plays. you don't think he knew the playbook or had a playbook or "used a playbook" ?

you pulled that one out of your arse didn't you?
Has to be a Common tongue-in-cheek play here, we all read that he even entered the playbook into Madden.  LINK
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Posted: 6/6/2014 9:51 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


The reviews of Bortles scared me before the draft.  I have spent too much time over the last ten years watching the likes of TJ and Ponder not be able to make multiple reads and throw a receiver open.  Bortles may learn this skill but I would prefer someone who did it in college because then there is one less thing to worry about.  I think Manziel is like being on a roller coaster.  He has potential to be a very exciting player but you will have plenty of ups and downs.  I would also expect that Manziel will not be a great practice player and will do better on the field.  However, with Manziel I think it will be boom or bust and little in between.

With all that said, I am ecstatic that they got Bridgewater.  I don't know if he will become a great qb but he has produced in college and can make reads.  I also think he knows how to throw to a "covered" receiver and not think they have to be wide open like Ponder and TJ needed.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 10:23 AM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


Keep in mind that since the draft all Johnny threads have been started by Johnny dislikers. Not sure why the need to try so hard to make him look bad, it will take a few years to know for sure.

I'm just happy we stole Teddy at 32. Can't wait for him to start.
Vikings-Sooners-Thunder
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Posted: 6/6/2014 12:31 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


Agreed.  I find it odd when people focus on the physical aspects of a quarterback with such intensity.  We tried our own version of Bortles in Ponder.   He looked the part to a T but struggled actually doing the job.  Manziel?  I think he's going to get busted up in the NFL.
jumanji4132 wrote: Jaguars and Browns will be cursing themselves in two years
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Posted: 6/6/2014 1:11 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 



PassDaDutchie wrote:
vikingfan52 wrote:
mrflynn wrote: Manziel never saw a playbook until he was drafted. Bortles only had to read 1/4 to 1/2 the field in the offense he played in. It is not at all surprising they are having growing pains.

Bortles will develop faster then Manziel I bet. He is farther ahead in the learning curve, but has a slower reaction speed.

I heard a lot of talk when coming to the qbs in this draft, that Bortles might have the highest upside, but it would be a while for him to reach that upside.. He wasn't going to be ready as quickly as the others... What I heard differs from him developing faster.

I am not sure with this reply...  I thought i read or heard that Bridgewater didn't use a play book either... I may be wrong. But how many kids coming out of college do?  Just wondering? 

But TB is the only one I am concerned with. He pertains to the team that I cheer and root for... I am not so concerned about the others whether they flop or stand out...
lol

bridgewater called his own plays. you don't think he knew the playbook or had a playbook or "used a playbook" ?

you pulled that one out of your arse didn't you?
I said I could be wrong. I only started looking at film and highlights after the draft, outside of what I read.  But either way Cassell and even ponder  have mega times NFL experience.

_---------------------------------------------------
Roll Tide. Take it back in 2014/15
Go SEC
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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:00 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 



BrotherBluto wrote: The reviews of Bortles scared me before the draft.  I have spent too much time over the last ten years watching the likes of TJ and Ponder not be able to make multiple reads and throw a receiver open.  Bortles may learn this skill but I would prefer someone who did it in college because then there is one less thing to worry about.  I think Manziel is like being on a roller coaster.  He has potential to be a very exciting player but you will have plenty of ups and downs.  I would also expect that Manziel will not be a great practice player and will do better on the field.  However, with Manziel I think it will be boom or bust and little in between.

With all that said, I am ecstatic that they got Bridgewater.  I don't know if he will become a great qb but he has produced in college and can make reads.  I also think he knows how to throw to a "covered" receiver and not think they have to be wide open like Ponder and TJ needed.
Bortles scared me the most of the big three.  Not very fast and not a great arm, IMO.  To me he appears to have the weakest arm of the group.  People kept talking about his big arm...and I think all they were doing was looking at his big body size.  But if you watched his passes there wasn't anything special on them.  At least I didn't see it.  I think too many people looked at his size compared to Manziel and Bridgewater and automatically decided that that must make him the better pro.

Didn't want Bortles, was intrigued by Manziel, and the more I looked at Bridgewater the more I liked him.  I think his original top 5 ranking was the most accurate one.  Super happy to have him as a Viking.

BTW:  It appears to me Bridgewater has more zip on his passes than either Cassell or Ponder...just watching the OTA video clips from Vikings.com  I watched one of those Sports Science stories on Bridgewater and they said he was throwing at 54 mph while the guy he was going against was throwing at what is considered an average speed...48 mph.  If I remember right they also said that Bridgewater's arm speed was the best they had tested ....this year.   So concerns about Bridgewaters arm strength are totally unwarranted, IMO.  He obviously isn't going to have a cannon like a John Elway. but his arm strength is plenty good to make all the necessary throws in the NFL.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 3:17 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 



vikingfan52 wrote:
PassDaDutchie wrote:
vikingfan52 wrote:
mrflynn wrote: Manziel never saw a playbook until he was drafted. Bortles only had to read 1/4 to 1/2 the field in the offense he played in. It is not at all surprising they are having growing pains.

Bortles will develop faster then Manziel I bet. He is farther ahead in the learning curve, but has a slower reaction speed.

I heard a lot of talk when coming to the qbs in this draft, that Bortles might have the highest upside, but it would be a while for him to reach that upside.. He wasn't going to be ready as quickly as the others... What I heard differs from him developing faster.

I am not sure with this reply...  I thought i read or heard that Bridgewater didn't use a play book either... I may be wrong. But how many kids coming out of college do?  Just wondering? 

But TB is the only one I am concerned with. He pertains to the team that I cheer and root for... I am not so concerned about the others whether they flop or stand out...
lol

bridgewater called his own plays. you don't think he knew the playbook or had a playbook or "used a playbook" ?

you pulled that one out of your arse didn't you?
I said I could be wrong. I only started looking at film and highlights after the draft, outside of what I read.  But either way Cassell and even ponder  have mega times NFL experience.

topic of this thread is manziel and bortles having some struggles in camp. someone mentions manziel and a playbook, you try to imply that it was the same for bridgewater (completely fabricated that's why you used the qualifier "i could be wrong"). 

and out of nowhere

now you're saying that cassel and ponder have more NFL experience! 

i don't know whether to laugh or banghead at your logic.

so what's the point you're trying to make here again?

Last edited 6/6/2014 3:20 PM by PassDaDutchie

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Posted: 6/6/2014 6:39 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 



PassDaDutchie wrote:
vikingfan52 wrote:
PassDaDutchie wrote:
vikingfan52 wrote:
mrflynn wrote: Manziel never saw a playbook until he was drafted. Bortles only had to read 1/4 to 1/2 the field in the offense he played in. It is not at all surprising they are having growing pains.

Bortles will develop faster then Manziel I bet. He is farther ahead in the learning curve, but has a slower reaction speed.

I heard a lot of talk when coming to the qbs in this draft, that Bortles might have the highest upside, but it would be a while for him to reach that upside.. He wasn't going to be ready as quickly as the others... What I heard differs from him developing faster.

I am not sure with this reply...  I thought i read or heard that Bridgewater didn't use a play book either... I may be wrong. But how many kids coming out of college do?  Just wondering? 

But TB is the only one I am concerned with. He pertains to the team that I cheer and root for... I am not so concerned about the others whether they flop or stand out...
lol

bridgewater called his own plays. you don't think he knew the playbook or had a playbook or "used a playbook" ?

you pulled that one out of your arse didn't you?
I said I could be wrong. I only started looking at film and highlights after the draft, outside of what I read.  But either way Cassell and even ponder  have mega times NFL experience.

topic of this thread is manziel and bortles having some struggles in camp. someone mentions manziel and a playbook, you try to imply that it was the same for bridgewater (completely fabricated that's why you used the qualifier "i could be wrong"). 

and out of nowhere

now you're saying that cassel and ponder have more NFL experience! 

i don't know whether to laugh or banghead at your logic.

so what's the point you're trying to make here again?
I wasn't ragging on TB. Just stating I heard he didn't have a play book. Wasn't sure how many used a playbook or not. Personally I can't wait to see TB get in there. I just don't wasn't them to rush him in there.  But I don't believe the coaches will. Unless they totally believe he is ready. If Cassell does well it will definitely hinder his start.just my opinion. But whether someone says he will or will not start is all speculation.

_---------------------------------------------------
Roll Tide. Take it back in 2014/15
Go SEC
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  • drink
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  • 4380 posts this site

Posted: 6/6/2014 7:07 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


manziel never had a playbook in college?  how was that not news before the draft?  LOL!
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:20 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


52 is definitely anti Manziel.....


PassDaDutchie wrote:
vikingfan52 wrote:
PassDaDutchie wrote:
vikingfan52 wrote:
mrflynn wrote: Manziel never saw a playbook until he was drafted. Bortles only had to read 1/4 to 1/2 the field in the offense he played in. It is not at all surprising they are having growing pains.

Bortles will develop faster then Manziel I bet. He is farther ahead in the learning curve, but has a slower reaction speed.

I heard a lot of talk when coming to the qbs in this draft, that Bortles might have the highest upside, but it would be a while for him to reach that upside.. He wasn't going to be ready as quickly as the others... What I heard differs from him developing faster.

I am not sure with this reply...  I thought i read or heard that Bridgewater didn't use a play book either... I may be wrong. But how many kids coming out of college do?  Just wondering? 

But TB is the only one I am concerned with. He pertains to the team that I cheer and root for... I am not so concerned about the others whether they flop or stand out...
lol

bridgewater called his own plays. you don't think he knew the playbook or had a playbook or "used a playbook" ?

you pulled that one out of your arse didn't you?
I said I could be wrong. I only started looking at film and highlights after the draft, outside of what I read.  But either way Cassell and even ponder  have mega times NFL experience.

topic of this thread is manziel and bortles having some struggles in camp. someone mentions manziel and a playbook, you try to imply that it was the same for bridgewater (completely fabricated that's why you used the qualifier "i could be wrong"). 

and out of nowhere

now you're saying that cassel and ponder have more NFL experience! 

i don't know whether to laugh or banghead at your logic.

so what's the point you're trying to make here again?
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:23 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


It was news, no one cared though because he could still break down plays. Dumplings offense didn't use a traditional playbook, but he still had to learn an offense, A&M just learned while doing it.
drink wrote: manziel never had a playbook in college?  how was that not news before the draft?  LOL!
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:31 PM

Re: Manziel and Bortles struggling 


Manziel and Bortles succeeded, and will succeed, based on their physicals skills. As they learn their schemes and assignments, I expect them to be successful. They may peak around year 2 or 3 and continue to be good until their bodies slow down. I'd put RG3 into the same category. A nagging injury can really affect his success.

Bridgewater succeeded because of his football IQ. He will continue to get better each year for many years, becoming a wily fox who can outwit the defense even as he ages.  I'd put him in the category of a Drew Brees. He will keep learning and improving into his 30s, barring an injury. 

If it plays out like I think it will, we'll be glad we picked Teddy for many years to come.
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