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patriots are the classless team in our division true or false.

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Posted: 1/21/2013 6:00 PM

patriots are the classless team in our division true or false. 


I really  have to say  that  the afc east is a  trashy division  with Buffalo  and  Miami   the class of the division . 

can someone  please tell the cheater  Bilicheck  to go buy some clothes ?   he looks like a bum.  Last night  he showed why he is a dick  by no tinterviewing  by the guy from cbs .  I know he is a great coach but still there is no reason to be a jerk  . I am glad Shannon Sharp lit into him  .

i Dont know how anyone else feels but  the afc east  is getting to the point  where  it has two very trashy head coaches   I think Buffalo  and Miami  are still first class  teams  but no way in hell  itrust the refs  when we play the jets and pats.

Goodell  plays favorites and the Pats got one big that should not have been called  in the fourth qter .  it seemed to me the refs tried to help the pats  quite a bit last night.

but please  do we all have to endure Bilicheck and his trashy  hoodie  ?banghead
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Posted: 1/22/2013 12:42 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 


I hate the Pats as much as any Dolphins fan, but enough with the cheating reference already.  First of all, every team in the league STILL does what the Pat's were accused of doing.  It's been practice for as long as there's been cameras and film.  The only thing they did wrong was fire someone who went to the Jets and blew the whistle on the Pats. 

Please with how he dresses.  I couldn't care less how Belichek dresses.  If we had the hoodie and Brady here you'd be kissing his sack like every Pat's fan does now.  I HATE the pat's and am tired of their domination, but i RESPECT them because they have been teh class of the division for years.  the Jets?  I don't respect the jets and think they are completely classless with Ryan talking trash but not backing it up.  the bills haven't been relevant for a decade or more.  Miami?  Classy?  I love my team, but some of the things that our owner and GM have done and said go completely against the idea of them being classy.  Orange Carpet?  Flying cross country to woo Harbaugh while their current coach was under contract, an trying to do so undercover rather than be open and honest about it?  Ireland asking Bryant if his mother was a hooker?

Fans shouldn't throw stones in Glass houses.  We shouldn't speak of a lack of class by the Patriots just because of what their coach wears or how much they win, regardless of the circumstances of their success.

"Make it Rain Hell"

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Posted: 1/22/2013 4:17 PM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 


I hate when i hear people say every organization cheats.. I dont really believe that is  true at all and certainly not to the extent that Bellicheck led teams do.

Not all teams record practices, Hand Signals, QB calls, that is called CHEATING and it absolutley is not allowed and i believe at least SOME teams respect the game and have enough integrity  not to do it. For instance i am pretty damn sure we dont record teams Practices when they are going to play us.If it was common place and ok to do why not just send the Patriots Mascot in uniform to record our practices with a label on the camera " Bellicheck TV"


There are other shady Practices that are wrong but legal that these teams employ against us all the time.. 

1. When we play the Patriots or Jets I find it Ironic that 2 players are usually poached from our practice squad or whomever we waved the week before and signed to these teams. This practice really shows how scummy these teams are because You ABSOLUTELY never see Miami or Buffalo doing this type of bush league bullchit.
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Posted: 1/22/2013 6:34 PM

RE: patriots are the classless team in our division true or fa 


I think the Patriots just took losing real hard, they been dam close a couple of times recently. Time is running out for Tommy and he wanted a couple more SB.
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Posted: 1/22/2013 8:41 PM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



Gonzorot wrote: I hate when i hear people say every organization cheats.. I dont really believe that is  true at all and certainly not to the extent that Bellicheck led teams do.

Not all teams record practices, Hand Signals, QB calls, that is called CHEATING and it absolutley is not allowed and i believe at least SOME teams respect the game and have enough integrity  not to do it. For instance i am pretty damn sure we dont record teams Practices when they are going to play us.If it was common place and ok to do why not just send the Patriots Mascot in uniform to record our practices with a label on the camera " Bellicheck TV"


There are other shady Practices that are wrong but legal that these teams employ against us all the time.. 

1. When we play the Patriots or Jets I find it Ironic that 2 players are usually poached from our practice squad or whomever we waved the week before and signed to these teams. This practice really shows how scummy these teams are because You ABSOLUTELY never see Miami or Buffalo doing this type of bush league bullchit.
Never?  So when JJ, on national TV after the story about Belichek broke said EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE does it, every coach he coached against did it means no one else did it?  No one else got caught, or was as brazen as Belichek to put a guy in the actual stands to tape practices, but everyone did it.  Shula and Miami did it, Walsh in San Fran did it, Lombardi in Green Bay, Nole in Pittsburgh, Landry in Dallas ... c'mon now.  I hate the Pats and they got caught doing something that was being done for years.  The league made an example of them and everyone else fell in line. 

Same thing happened with New Orleans.  Tell me Defensive players and coaches don't EVER talk about injuring the opposing teams best players?  Bounty's have NEVER been paid by players for hitting an opposing player hard?  Same thing.  Just because New Orleans was 'caught' and punished doesn't mean it never happened anywhere else.  Once again, Goodell and the league wanted to rid itself of an ugly part of the game so they made an example of New Orleans and made news out of it.  So now, moving forward, teams know the consequences of being caught in this kind of program.  Their Super Bowl victories, dominance in the AFC, and dominance of our division was and is not because they cheated.  They have dominated because they are the best prepared, best coached, best quarterbacked and hardest working team in the league.  They expect excellence and excecution on the field and their leaders do not tolerate deviation from that.  They have a team philosophy that no one wavers from and if an individual does, they are sent packing.  Period.

"Make it Rain Hell"

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Posted: 1/22/2013 9:59 PM

RE: patriots are the classless team in our division true or fa 


I don't give a rats ass about the Orange Carpet, Celebrtiy/Minority Owners, stadium pals or anything else Ross has done outside bof football games. This isht has nothing to do with wins or losses or class. Sleevless Hoodies aren't exactly classy but yeah I would love it if he were our coach and brought us a few SuperBowl rings and a decade of relavency. They are certainly arrogant and annoying. Rex Ryan however is the definition of classless though. I am glad he has finally stopped trash talking but there is a long list of reasons why he doesn't deserve a head coaching job and lack of class is on it.

Last edited 1/22/2013 10:01 PM by dstock21

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Posted: 1/23/2013 10:31 AM

RE: patriots are the classless team in our division true or fa 



dougb123 wrote: I think the Patriots just took losing real hard, they been dam close a couple of times recently. Time is running out for Tommy and he wanted a couple more SB.

that is spot on,     my problem is that most coaches wear  nice clothes and look professional  while  Billicheck  looks like  a hoodlum   would  miami get away with its head coach in a hoodie ?    hell no  , it wouldnt,

now all that said  I will give the coach props for building a dynasty  but   they would not win super bowls  if teams wouldnt trade with them all the time .banghead
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Posted: 1/23/2013 11:37 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



Rosco50 wrote: I really  have to say  that  the afc east is a  trashy division  with Buffalo  and  Miami   the class of the division . 

can someone  please tell the cheater  Bilicheck  to go buy some clothes ?   he looks like a bum.  Last night  he showed why he is a dick  by no tinterviewing  by the guy from cbs .  I know he is a great coach but still there is no reason to be a jerk  . I am glad Shannon Sharp lit into him  .

i Dont know how anyone else feels but  the afc east  is getting to the point  where  it has two very trashy head coaches   I think Buffalo  and Miami  are still first class  teams  but no way in hell  itrust the refs  when we play the jets and pats.

Goodell  plays favorites and the Pats got one big that should not have been called  in the fourth qter .  it seemed to me the refs tried to help the pats  quite a bit last night.

but please  do we all have to endure Bilicheck and his trashy  hoodie  ?banghead
That Pats Ravens game was pissing me the hell off.  The personal foul defensless receiver / hit to the head calls being called against Baltimore were just sending me to pissedoffville. The Lott/Atwater in me wanted to puke.  Then you've got Pitta getting smashed in a defenseless position, you've got Reed on a fair catch getting helmet to helmet speared by a guy for no reason at all, no flags.  And then Brady and his karate kick at Ed Reed's crotch with no call.......the Ravens definitely had to beat the Patriots and the Refs in that game, and I was flippin' happy they did, too. Hate the whole bunch of 'em.

Felt bad for the RB there that got ragdoll'd KOd ("You got knocked the fugg out, man!" - Chris Tucker) but I couldn't help but think the karma of how that whole game was getting called to that point unfortunately took it out on that poor guy.



Last edited 1/23/2013 11:53 AM by Marx8385

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Posted: 1/23/2013 12:06 PM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



DantesDolfanInferno wrote:
Gonzorot wrote: I hate when i hear people say every organization cheats.. I dont really believe that is  true at all and certainly not to the extent that Bellicheck led teams do.

Not all teams record practices, Hand Signals, QB calls, that is called CHEATING and it absolutley is not allowed and i believe at least SOME teams respect the game and have enough integrity  not to do it. For instance i am pretty damn sure we dont record teams Practices when they are going to play us.If it was common place and ok to do why not just send the Patriots Mascot in uniform to record our practices with a label on the camera " Bellicheck TV"


There are other shady Practices that are wrong but legal that these teams employ against us all the time.. 

1. When we play the Patriots or Jets I find it Ironic that 2 players are usually poached from our practice squad or whomever we waved the week before and signed to these teams. This practice really shows how scummy these teams are because You ABSOLUTELY never see Miami or Buffalo doing this type of bush league bullchit.
Never?  So when JJ, on national TV after the story about Belichek broke said EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE does it, every coach he coached against did it means no one else did it?  No one else got caught, or was as brazen as Belichek to put a guy in the actual stands to tape practices, but everyone did it.  Shula and Miami did it, Walsh in San Fran did it, Lombardi in Green Bay, Nole in Pittsburgh, Landry in Dallas ... c'mon now.  I hate the Pats and they got caught doing something that was being done for years.  The league made an example of them and everyone else fell in line. 

Same thing happened with New Orleans.  Tell me Defensive players and coaches don't EVER talk about injuring the opposing teams best players?  Bounty's have NEVER been paid by players for hitting an opposing player hard?  Same thing.  Just because New Orleans was 'caught' and punished doesn't mean it never happened anywhere else.  Once again, Goodell and the league wanted to rid itself of an ugly part of the game so they made an example of New Orleans and made news out of it.  So now, moving forward, teams know the consequences of being caught in this kind of program.  Their Super Bowl victories, dominance in the AFC, and dominance of our division was and is not because they cheated.  They have dominated because they are the best prepared, best coached, best quarterbacked and hardest working team in the league.  They expect excellence and excecution on the field and their leaders do not tolerate deviation from that.  They have a team philosophy that no one wavers from and if an individual does, they are sent packing.  Period.
Jimmy Johnson does not speak for every coach in the NFL ,are you seriously going to base your entire belief off of JJ AKA Mr Weiner Pill Spokesman?

I refuse to believe that sportsmanship and fairness doesn't have a place in this league, that the entire NFL are all a bunch of scumbag cheats. Do i think there are bad apples in the league and more teams do it then just the patriots? Yes, Now  Do i think every team in the NFL does this practice? Hell no

I can understand studying calls from previous televised games that is fair game its public knowledge, But when you actually go videotape a practice with the Calls and Plays they intend to run against your team that week.. CHEATING BIG TIME

The bounty scandal is a completely different monster, Adding incentive for players to essentially tackle hard and injure actually i dont see a problem with.. It is football and players hit hard, create Turnovers, and injure other players. If the injuries occur because of something illegal then yes that is wrong, but adding incentive to hit hard even if the goal is to injure is not cheating unless You ask your players to perform illegal helmet to helmet or something else of the sort. The saints paid the price for it ultimately though same as the patriots.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 2:14 PM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



DantesDolfanInferno wrote:
No one else got caught, or was as brazen as Belichek to put a guy in the actual stands to tape practices, but everyone did it.  Shula and Miami did it, Walsh in San Fran did it, Lombardi in Green Bay, Nole in Pittsburgh, Landry in Dallas ...
Shula Walsh Lombardi Noll and Landry cheated and taped other teams practices?  I mean I know everybody tries to steal signals during a game, football & baseball have been like that for ages thus the 40 hand gestures by the 3rd base coach, but I'm pretty sure those legends you listed off didn't illegally video tape the other team's practices, etc.  If for no other reason than it'd be pretty suspicious looking trying to stand somewhere with a huge movie projector on your shoulders, lol.



Last edited 1/23/2013 2:16 PM by Marx8385

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Posted: 1/28/2013 1:38 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



Gonzorot wrote: I hate when i hear people say every organization cheats.. I dont really believe that is  true at all and certainly not to the extent that Bellicheck led teams do.

Not all teams record practices, Hand Signals, QB calls, that is called CHEATING and it absolutley is not allowed and i believe at least SOME teams respect the game and have enough integrity  not to do it. For instance i am pretty damn sure we dont record teams Practices when they are going to play us.If it was common place and ok to do why not just send the Patriots Mascot in uniform to record our practices with a label on the camera " Bellicheck TV"


There are other shady Practices that are wrong but legal that these teams employ against us all the time.. 

1. When we play the Patriots or Jets I find it Ironic that 2 players are usually poached from our practice squad or whomever we waved the week before and signed to these teams. This practice really shows how scummy these teams are because You ABSOLUTELY never see Miami or Buffalo doing this type of bush league bullchit.
2006. 21-0.

Nick Saban used recorded signals to tap into the Patriots verbiage. Miami didn't win another game. New England rolled to the AFC Conference Championship game.

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Posted: 1/28/2013 1:47 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



NationsBIGGESTFinFan wrote:
Gonzorot wrote: I hate when i hear people say every organization cheats.. I dont really believe that is  true at all and certainly not to the extent that Bellicheck led teams do.

Not all teams record practices, Hand Signals, QB calls, that is called CHEATING and it absolutley is not allowed and i believe at least SOME teams respect the game and have enough integrity  not to do it. For instance i am pretty damn sure we dont record teams Practices when they are going to play us.If it was common place and ok to do why not just send the Patriots Mascot in uniform to record our practices with a label on the camera " Bellicheck TV"


There are other shady Practices that are wrong but legal that these teams employ against us all the time.. 

1. When we play the Patriots or Jets I find it Ironic that 2 players are usually poached from our practice squad or whomever we waved the week before and signed to these teams. This practice really shows how scummy these teams are because You ABSOLUTELY never see Miami or Buffalo doing this type of bush league bullchit.
2006. 21-0.

Nick Saban used recorded signals to tap into the Patriots verbiage. Miami didn't win another game. New England rolled to the AFC Conference Championship game.
That is really random, Where is this article that states this? I googled Nick Saban records patriots and came up with nada.

I sometimes feel like you have a big soft spot for the patriots, maybe cause you live in that area, but at times although Your record on this forum speaks for itself and you are a fin fan it just seems strange sometimes.
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Posted: 1/28/2013 2:06 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



Gonzorot wrote:
NationsBIGGESTFinFan wrote:
Gonzorot wrote: I hate when i hear people say every organization cheats.. I dont really believe that is  true at all and certainly not to the extent that Bellicheck led teams do.

Not all teams record practices, Hand Signals, QB calls, that is called CHEATING and it absolutley is not allowed and i believe at least SOME teams respect the game and have enough integrity  not to do it. For instance i am pretty damn sure we dont record teams Practices when they are going to play us.If it was common place and ok to do why not just send the Patriots Mascot in uniform to record our practices with a label on the camera " Bellicheck TV"


There are other shady Practices that are wrong but legal that these teams employ against us all the time.. 

1. When we play the Patriots or Jets I find it Ironic that 2 players are usually poached from our practice squad or whomever we waved the week before and signed to these teams. This practice really shows how scummy these teams are because You ABSOLUTELY never see Miami or Buffalo doing this type of bush league bullchit.
2006. 21-0.

Nick Saban used recorded signals to tap into the Patriots verbiage. Miami didn't win another game. New England rolled to the AFC Conference Championship game.
That is really random, Where is this article that states this? I googled Nick Saban records patriots and came up with nada.

I sometimes feel like you have a big soft spot for the patriots, maybe cause you live in that area, but at times although Your record on this forum speaks for itself and you are a fin fan it just seems strange sometimes.
I was at that game. Since it was against the Patriots, I had to fly in and out of Ft Myers to have an affordable flight. I had my laptop out, my broadband card working and was listening to the blowhards on WEEI, Boston's sports radio station. I was laughing all the way across Alligator Alley.

What I do is disconnect myself from the haterade heaped upon the Patriots. I think factually. But while many of you goobers say the Jets are the most hated rival, I always hate the Patriots most. I've said that repeatedly. The best sports night of my life was the '07 season Super Bowl when the Giants stopped the certain undefeated season. I love when the Patriots lose their final game of the year. Even though I have a soft spot for the 49ers since my mom is from the Bay Area, I'm rooting for the Ravens since Pats fans hate them so much.

And the allegation of signal stealing by Saban was very real. There was debate on if what he did violated NFL rules at the time, but he did have audible recordings of the Patriots signals.

Last edited 1/28/2013 2:09 AM by NationsBIGGESTFinFan

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Posted: 1/28/2013 2:12 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



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Posted: 1/28/2013 2:16 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 


And here...


Now, I'm not saying the allegations were concrete. But they're there. And the Dolphins killed the Pats that day. The Pats were one incredible half by Manning and the Colts from going to the Super Bowl that year. And a 6-10 Miami team shuts them out and holds Brady to 78 yards passing?

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Posted: 1/28/2013 3:29 PM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 


Doesn't really surprise me with Nick Saban.. I am saying the I just love how people make it see like every team in the NFL was at each others practices recording play calls and signals.

Even this story is just hypothetical to me since there is no proof.  The patriots got caught actually doing this crap.. Im pretty sure if Bellicheck had knowledge of other teams that did this same exact process it would have been leaked already. THe patriots Were in fact cheaters and like i said.. Watch the games this next season when we play the patriots and Jets someone off our practice squad WILL be poached a week or two before we play them.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 2:10 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



NationsBIGGESTFinFan wrote:
Gonzorot wrote:
NationsBIGGESTFinFan wrote:
Gonzorot wrote: I hate when i hear people say every organization cheats.. I dont really believe that is  true at all and certainly not to the extent that Bellicheck led teams do.

Not all teams record practices, Hand Signals, QB calls, that is called CHEATING and it absolutley is not allowed and i believe at least SOME teams respect the game and have enough integrity  not to do it. For instance i am pretty damn sure we dont record teams Practices when they are going to play us.If it was common place and ok to do why not just send the Patriots Mascot in uniform to record our practices with a label on the camera " Bellicheck TV"


There are other shady Practices that are wrong but legal that these teams employ against us all the time.. 

1. When we play the Patriots or Jets I find it Ironic that 2 players are usually poached from our practice squad or whomever we waved the week before and signed to these teams. This practice really shows how scummy these teams are because You ABSOLUTELY never see Miami or Buffalo doing this type of bush league bullchit.
2006. 21-0.

Nick Saban used recorded signals to tap into the Patriots verbiage. Miami didn't win another game. New England rolled to the AFC Conference Championship game.
That is really random, Where is this article that states this? I googled Nick Saban records patriots and came up with nada.

I sometimes feel like you have a big soft spot for the patriots, maybe cause you live in that area, but at times although Your record on this forum speaks for itself and you are a fin fan it just seems strange sometimes.
I was at that game. Since it was against the Patriots, I had to fly in and out of Ft Myers to have an affordable flight. I had my laptop out, my broadband card working and was listening to the blowhards on WEEI, Boston's sports radio station. I was laughing all the way across Alligator Alley.

What I do is disconnect myself from the haterade heaped upon the Patriots. I think factually. But while many of you goobers say the Jets are the most hated rival, I always hate the Patriots most. I've said that repeatedly. The best sports night of my life was the '07 season Super Bowl when the Giants stopped the certain undefeated season. I love when the Patriots lose their final game of the year. Even though I have a soft spot for the 49ers since my mom is from the Bay Area, I'm rooting for the Ravens since Pats fans hate them so much.

And the allegation of signal stealing by Saban was very real. There was debate on if what he did violated NFL rules at the time, but he did have audible recordings of the Patriots signals.
I do still hate the patriots but honestly in recent years we have not even sniffed their level of performance, so I guess i became sort of used to them being the great team in this division and we have been so far back that it really has died the rivalry down a notch for me.

Now the Jets Everyone hates because they are run by a bunch of clowns who proclaim greatness, Talk a ton of trash,When in reality they are really mediocre at best like last year.  If the NY Jets were a person they would be a 5 foot 2 inch person walking around talking trash, picking fights.. Which makes it that much sweeter to knock their asses out like the blowout game last year.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 11:43 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 



Gonzorot wrote: Doesn't really surprise me with Nick Saban.. I am saying the I just love how people make it see like every team in the NFL was at each others practices recording play calls and signals.

Even this story is just hypothetical to me since there is no proof.  The patriots got caught actually doing this crap.. Im pretty sure if Bellicheck had knowledge of other teams that did this same exact process it would have been leaked already. THe patriots Were in fact cheaters and like i said.. Watch the games this next season when we play the patriots and Jets someone off our practice squad WILL be poached a week or two before we play them.
Every team in the NFL for DECADES have tried to spy on each others practices in one way, shape or form.  Maybe not RECORD practices, but spy.  The Pat's were just overly brazen about it and got caught.  Anyone who thinks this never happened before the pats is very naive.

"Make it Rain Hell"

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Posted: 1/29/2013 11:58 AM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 


Still doubting my premonitions?  Here.  Read this article or look at the sections I have highlighted below to show that teams have been doing this sort of thing FOR YEARS.  Some of the names on this list will surprise you.  Way more than JJ in this article:

http://bleacherreport.com/arti...romoting-parity

"In “Spreading the Word Is No Secret In the NFL” (The New York Times, October 26, 2008, it’s revealed that such players sometimes reveal the meaning of their former teams’ signals and audibles to their new teams.

 

The Patriots sparked outrage by filming Jets’ coaching signals rather than just their players. (Yet, somehow it’s perfectly fine if one of that team’s former players simply tells you what all the signals mean.)

 

Teams have long studied signals and tried to decipher them. NFL rules allow this practice. In turn, teams take countermeasures to protect signals. They can change the meaning of their signals. They can have people screening their signalers from eyes on the opposing sideline.

 

Often, they have multiple coaches signaling at the same time with their own players knowing which coach to watch, or they can hope their opponent doesn’t decipher them.

 

Starting in 1994, calling offensive plays became simpler. New rules allowed coaches to call plays through a radio in the quarterback’s helmet. This method makes hand signals unnecessary although teams still have them in case of an emergency. Coaches simply hold laminated sheets in front of their mouths to guard against lip readers.

 

In football’s early days, players often called their own plays, leaving no coaching signals for opponents to decode. In the 1920s, some players, like George Halas and Curly Lambeau served as player/coaches and played three ways: on offense, defense, and special teams.

 

Is it safe to assume they called plays on the field?

 

As late as the 1960s and 70s, many quarterbacks still called their own plays. By this time, however, some coaches called plays from the sideline. For instance, the Packers’ Vince Lombardi had quarterback Bart Starr call most of the offensive plays, but the Packers called defensive plays from the sideline.

 

(See, “Dinner Conversation with Vince Lombardi” from The Vince Lombardi Scrapbook by George Flynn, Grosset & Dunlap, New York, 1976, pgs. 17-18.).

 

Paul Brown coached the Browns from 1946-1963 and introduced many innovations to the game. Brown preferred calling plays from the sideline. He experimented with radio helmets for quarterbacks, but the league banned them until 1994. (Starting in 2008, the league allowed defensive players to wear similar helmets.)

 

In one game before the ban, Tom Landry—a Giants assistant who later became a Hall of Fame coach for the Cowboystuned into the Browns’ radio frequency, allowing him to call the right defensive plays.

 

The Giants won.

 

(See “Sacks, Lies and Videotape” by Mark Bowden, The New York Times, Sunday May 18, 2008.)

 

Brown also sent plays in with substitute players, “shuttle guards.” This also bypassed hand signs. By the mid to late 1980s, it was rare for quarterbacks to call their own plays. Coaches called them from the sideline often using hand signals which opponents could also see.

 

In a 1990's article about football terminology, Pro Football Weekly discussed hand signals.

 

Electronic and other kinds of subterfuge likewise have a long NFL history. The NFC Championship trophy is named after George Halas. For 63 years, Halas owned the Chicago Bears. For 40 of those years, he coached them, winning 324 games (still the second most in NFL history) and six NFL Championships.

 

During his ownership, the team won a total of eight NFL titles. An innovator who pioneered the use of game film, Halas also had a reputation for espionage. Rivals and reporters claimed that he bugged locker rooms, coaches’ boxes, and teams’ phone systems. They said he had spies watch practices

 

In fact, Fido Murphy, a Bears’ scout who also worked for the Steelers, once admitted to having a kid watch a Rams’ practice. The kid hid under the scoreboard, studying the defense. Murphy passed the information to Bears’ coaches and advised them on countering the defense.

 

After George Allen, a Halas assistant and father of former Senator George Allen, left Halas’s staff, he gained a reputation for “paranoia” about other teams spying, especially Halas’s Bears. Allen worried about electronic bugs in offices and locker rooms and about spies watching practices.

 

He even hired a detective, Ed Boyton, for counter-surveillance. The NFL now bans many surveillance methods like bugging field phones.

 

It’s not known when someone first filmed coaching signals. It goes back at least to 1990 when Marty Schottenheimer coached Kansas City. Both on a Fox pregame show and on WFAN, a New York radio station, Jimmy Johnson, who coached the Dallas Cowboys to two Super Bowl Championships, said he also had staffers tape opposing coaches.

 

Johnson said teams could tape signals from the press box, but sometimes the press box was on the wrong side of the field. In that case, the cameraman filmed from the sidelines. Johnson, who also had interns search other teams’ trash for discarded notes and game plans, said taping coaches wasn’t worth the effort and abandoned it.

 

Johnson learned the procedure in 1990 from Mark Hatley, a Kansas Cityscout, who taught him how Marty Schottenheimer’s Chiefs did it. Johnson praised one Schottenheimer assistant, Howard Mudd, as “the best in the entire league at stealing signals.”  During much of the current decade, including their Super Bowl year, Mudd worked for the Indianapolis Colts.

 

One of Belichick’s fiercest Spygate critics and Mudd’s boss from 2002-2008 with the Colts, Tony Dungy, also served on Schottenheimer’s Kansas City staff. Other notable Schottenheimer assistants in Kansas City include Herm Edwards, who later served as the Jets' head coach before returning to the Chiefs in that capacity.

 

Edwards was so familiar with taping tactics that he waved to the Patriots' camera recording him. Long time Steelers' coach Bill Cowher also worked for Schottenheimer in Kansas City. During his career,Schottenheimer also coached the Cleveland Browns, Washington Redskins, and San Diego Chargers.

 

During Schottenheimer’s first few seasons in Kansas City, offenses still used hand signals too, meaning his defense also benefited from deciphering signals."

 

"Make it Rain Hell"

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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:09 PM

Re: patriots are the classless team in our division true or 


- So, to summarize, Paul Brown and Vince Lombardi of all people tried to find ways of hiding their signals or not having hand signals for some strange reason.  They'd have closed practices and not allow cameras in to watch practices.  Wonder WHY???  Could it be because 1. they knew other coaches were trying their best to spy on their teams to get an advantage? 2. because THEY themselves were involved in such activities so they knew what the practices were and were protecting themselves against another team doing to them what they did to others? 

- Papa Bear Halas stole signals left and right.

- Tom Landry did it as a D Coordinator with the Giants.  Think he stopped AFTER he became Cowboys HC?

- George Allen was paranoid constantly because he saw first hand how other teams tried to gain advantage by stealing signals or garnering information during games and at practices.

- Marty Schottenheimer, Jimmy Johnson, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, Howard Mudd (Not a HC but instrumental in teh success of the Indianapolis Colts during the Manning Years), Edwards ... all knew it was going on and most likely all tried and took advantage of the ability to tape other teams practices and hand signals or try to tune into radio signals. 

So if all these heavyweights of coaching past and present were involved in such activities, should all those teams be stripped of their successes?  Re-name the Vince Lombardi Trophy?  Take Papa Bear Halas out of the Hall of Fame?  Remove Tom Landry as one of the most iconic figures in NFL History? 

Belichek did what he was taught to do from the coaching fraternity that came before him.  Take every available advantage possible in helping your team win.  Spygate?  Was an issue because B!tch boy Mangina didn't like how he was treated when let go by the Pat's so the first opportunity he had he squeeled on the Pat's.

"Make it Rain Hell"

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