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Tannehill and dropped passes

  • mlb1399
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Posted: 1/2/2013 12:21 AM

Tannehill and dropped passes 


I know it's been widely discussed and hotly contested on whether RTH is the answer at QB.  I think this confirms what a lot of us have thought and felt, he didn't have a lot of help.

According to PFF, he had 24 dropped catchable balls, ranking 10th in the NFL.  As a percentage of attempts, he ranks 7th.

I think this also confirms what almost all of us agree on, at least one of our top 3 picks needs to be spent on receivers.  Maybe even 2 of them.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/21/s ig-stat-snapshot-dropped-passes-per-qb/2/
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  • mlb1399
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Posted: 1/2/2013 12:29 AM

Re: Tannehill and dropped passes 


Another interesting article which discusses average time getting rid of the ball and average time for sacks allowed.

RTH ranks very highly in getting rid of the ball quickly.  He also has 3rd worst time to get rid of the ball on plays that end in a sack.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/s ignature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

Also interesting that while Fasano ranks very highly in catching balls that are catchable he was in the bottom 10 of effectiveness as a receiving threat.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/06/s ig-stat-snapshot-receiving-production-tight-ends/

Moral of the story, we've got to get him more help to give him a chance to be successful.  How would have ranked if he had gotten the amount of time that Wilson or Luck gotten?
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Posted: 1/2/2013 5:28 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 


There is no outside threat which helps teams defend us. I think Tannehill is a good QB and if we get him 2 new receivers and a TE to throw the ball to who can actually go deep and still catch the ball (if he can connect) then things will open up for him. He didn't have a lot to work with and maybe an elite veteran qb could have done a better job but not a rookie who certainly isn't elite and probably never will be. Tannehill isn't the next Marino or Elway, maybe the next Hassleback or Dilfer who can be effective enough to win games and go to the playoffs and superbowl but he is going to need a high powered offense and defense.
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Posted: 1/2/2013 7:53 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 



dstock21 wrote: There is no outside threat which helps teams defend us. I think Tannehill is a good QB and if we get him 2 new receivers and a TE to throw the ball to who can actually go deep and still catch the ball (if he can connect) then things will open up for him. He didn't have a lot to work with and maybe an elite veteran qb could have done a better job but not a rookie who certainly isn't elite and probably never will be. Tannehill isn't the next Marino or Elway, maybe the next Hassleback or Dilfer who can be effective enough to win games and go to the playoffs and superbowl but he is going to need a high powered offense and defense.
A little harsh to call him a Dilfer or Hassleback.  

He's no Peyton Manning, but maybe he's an Eli?
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Posted: 1/2/2013 4:23 PM

Re: Tannehill and dropped passes 


I still think of him as a smaller Ben Roethlisberger...

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Posted: 1/3/2013 5:30 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 


Why is that harsh? Those were good not great Qbs. I would add Chad Pennington to that list too. Didn't Dilfer win a superbowl with the Ravens? I like Tannehill but I don't see him as a top 5 QB. I think he is good enough to win with but he is not good enough to win with alone. You watch what happens to Wes Welker this year if he doesn't resign in New England. He will be good but not the same, like Dion Branch when he went to Seattle or Mario Manningham, Laurent Robinson. Great Qbs make good WRs great. Tannehill needs a great/great WR if he is going to make it.
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Posted: 1/3/2013 5:58 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 


I don't think it's harsh at all. Both of those guys led their teams to superbowl appearances, and Dilfer got the ring.

The difference is, I think both of those guys had elite minds but not elite skill sets. Tannehill seems to be off-the-charts smart, and also has the elite skillset. However, he hasn't been able to put it all together, and there's a chance he never will and will remain in that second tier. We'll see what happens.
Somebody gave me a Hickey.
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Posted: 1/3/2013 10:05 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 


Yeah ok Omar kelly hahaha
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Posted: 1/3/2013 12:29 PM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 



dstock21 wrote: Why is that harsh? Those were good not great Qbs. I would add Chad Pennington to that list too. Didn't Dilfer win a superbowl with the Ravens? I like Tannehill but I don't see him as a top 5 QB. I think he is good enough to win with but he is not good enough to win with alone. You watch what happens to Wes Welker this year if he doesn't resign in New England. He will be good but not the same, like Dion Branch when he went to Seattle or Mario Manningham, Laurent Robinson. Great Qbs make good WRs great. Tannehill needs a great/great WR if he is going to make it.
I viewed it as harsh because the Baltimore super bowl is largely an example of a team winning in spite of their QB, not because.

I completely agree with you about Welker and Branch.  I think we got great value out of that trade, except the part where he went to someone we play 2x per year.  He's a great guy, but in Miami he would not have been a 100 catch a year person, but do just about what Bess does now.  It's Welker + Brady that is the key, not just welker.
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  • mlb1399
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Posted: 1/3/2013 1:01 PM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 



DolphinFanCA wrote:
dstock21 wrote: Why is that harsh? Those were good not great Qbs. I would add Chad Pennington to that list too. Didn't Dilfer win a superbowl with the Ravens? I like Tannehill but I don't see him as a top 5 QB. I think he is good enough to win with but he is not good enough to win with alone. You watch what happens to Wes Welker this year if he doesn't resign in New England. He will be good but not the same, like Dion Branch when he went to Seattle or Mario Manningham, Laurent Robinson. Great Qbs make good WRs great. Tannehill needs a great/great WR if he is going to make it.
I viewed it as harsh because the Baltimore super bowl is largely an example of a team winning in spite of their QB, not because.

I completely agree with you about Welker and Branch.  I think we got great value out of that trade, except the part where he went to someone we play 2x per year.  He's a great guy, but in Miami he would not have been a 100 catch a year person, but do just about what Bess does now.  It's Welker + Brady that is the key, not just welker.

While I certainly think his talents would have been underutilized in Miami with our constant change at QB and poor QB play, I thought he had a different gear than what Bess has.  I liked him in Miami.  He did everything, hustled and was quick.  That's the kind of football player I want on my team.
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Posted: 1/3/2013 3:33 PM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 



mlb1399 wrote:
DolphinFanCA wrote:
dstock21 wrote: Why is that harsh? Those were good not great Qbs. I would add Chad Pennington to that list too. Didn't Dilfer win a superbowl with the Ravens? I like Tannehill but I don't see him as a top 5 QB. I think he is good enough to win with but he is not good enough to win with alone. You watch what happens to Wes Welker this year if he doesn't resign in New England. He will be good but not the same, like Dion Branch when he went to Seattle or Mario Manningham, Laurent Robinson. Great Qbs make good WRs great. Tannehill needs a great/great WR if he is going to make it.
I viewed it as harsh because the Baltimore super bowl is largely an example of a team winning in spite of their QB, not because.

I completely agree with you about Welker and Branch.  I think we got great value out of that trade, except the part where he went to someone we play 2x per year.  He's a great guy, but in Miami he would not have been a 100 catch a year person, but do just about what Bess does now.  It's Welker + Brady that is the key, not just welker.

While I certainly think his talents would have been underutilized in Miami with our constant change at QB and poor QB play, I thought he had a different gear than what Bess has.  I liked him in Miami.  He did everything, hustled and was quick.  That's the kind of football player I want on my team.
He's a smart player too.  He's the only one I've seen utilize the rule on Kick Offs where you can catch the ball with one foot out of bounds and get the ball at the 45 :)
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Posted: 1/5/2013 10:33 AM

Re: Tannehill and dropped passes 


We need some new fresh offensive minds. How many years has the Dolphins been called predictable on offense? It goes all the way back from Kippy Brown till now. Our offense always seems hard for our players to learn but easy for defenses to figure out. How does that happen???
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  • mlb1399
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Posted: 1/5/2013 11:34 AM

Re: Tannehill and dropped passes 



rightNexact wrote: We need some new fresh offensive minds. How many years has the Dolphins been called predictable on offense? It goes all the way back from Kippy Brown till now. Our offense always seems hard for our players to learn but easy for defenses to figure out. How does that happen???

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I think this offense could change all of that.  We have the potential to add 1, 2 or maybe even 3 playmakers on offense between our draft picks and salary cap.  Can you imagine having Hartline and Bess with Jennings and Keenan Allen?  Or maybe even drafting a TE like Ertz?

I know people were disappointed with our offense this year but the results aren't surprising considering we had a rookie QB, one of the weakest WR/TE units in the NFL and an OL that really wasn't suited to run a zone blocking scheme.

I like the job Philbin did overall and I'm excited to see what he can do as this young team gets more experience and more playmakers on both sides of the ball.
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Posted: 1/5/2013 12:47 PM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 


If I felt like it I would go through the archives and find what people thought we were going to finish. I don't know why everyone acts so disappointed in our season. We cleaned the roster of possible cancers, like it or not. Switched defensive schemes from 3-4 to 4-3 almost seamlessly with basically the same players. We went 7-9 with a rookie Qb and garbage at WR and TE for the most part. We were not supposed to win 7 games and definately not supposed to be in the playoff hunt till the end of week 16. Season 1 IMO was about cleaning up the roster, installing the offense and defense, and identifying who fits those schemes. This offseason should be about eliminating dead weight and fillinf the holes. We ran a west coast offense and zone blocking scheme with half the roster being built for something else. I didn't like this season but it was better than expected. I will be pissed if we go 7-9 next season and still have plenty of holes to fill.
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Posted: 1/5/2013 12:58 PM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 



dstock21 wrote: If I felt like it I would go through the archives and find what people thought we were going to finish. I don't know why everyone acts so disappointed in our season. We cleaned the roster of possible cancers, like it or not. Switched defensive schemes from 3-4 to 4-3 almost seamlessly with basically the same players. We went 7-9 with a rookie Qb and garbage at WR and TE for the most part. We were not supposed to win 7 games and definately not supposed to be in the playoff hunt till the end of week 16. Season 1 IMO was about cleaning up the roster, installing the offense and defense, and identifying who fits those schemes. This offseason should be about eliminating dead weight and fillinf the holes. We ran a west coast offense and zone blocking scheme with half the roster being built for something else. I didn't like this season but it was better than expected. I will be pissed if we go 7-9 next season and still have plenty of holes to fill.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

It was almost comical seeing some reactions to our QB and our results.  It's almost like they ignored the commentary of every football analyst under the sun.
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Posted: 1/5/2013 3:32 PM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 




---------------------------------------------
--- mlb1399 wrote:


dstock21 wrote: If I felt like it I would go through the archives and find what people thought we were going to finish. I don't know why everyone acts so disappointed in our season. We cleaned the roster of possible cancers, like it or not. Switched defensive schemes from 3-4 to 4-3 almost seamlessly with basically the same players. We went 7-9 with a rookie Qb and garbage at WR and TE for the most part. We were not supposed to win 7 games and definately not supposed to be in the playoff hunt till the end of week 16. Season 1 IMO was about cleaning up the roster, installing the offense and defense, and identifying who fits those schemes. This offseason should be about eliminating dead weight and fillinf the holes. We ran a west coast offense and zone blocking scheme with half the roster being built for something else. I didn't like this season but it was better than expected. I will be pissed if we go 7-9 next season and still have plenty of holes to fill.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

It was almost comical seeing some reactions to our QB and our results.  It's almost like they ignored the commentary of every football analyst under the sun.

---------------------------------------------
To play devils advocate those same analysts agreed with everything Parcells did. The whole football world felt like he was our saviour. Looking back in hindsight how did that work for us?
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  • mlb1399
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Posted: 1/6/2013 1:40 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 



rightNexact wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- mlb1399 wrote:


dstock21 wrote: If I felt like it I would go through the archives and find what people thought we were going to finish. I don't know why everyone acts so disappointed in our season. We cleaned the roster of possible cancers, like it or not. Switched defensive schemes from 3-4 to 4-3 almost seamlessly with basically the same players. We went 7-9 with a rookie Qb and garbage at WR and TE for the most part. We were not supposed to win 7 games and definately not supposed to be in the playoff hunt till the end of week 16. Season 1 IMO was about cleaning up the roster, installing the offense and defense, and identifying who fits those schemes. This offseason should be about eliminating dead weight and fillinf the holes. We ran a west coast offense and zone blocking scheme with half the roster being built for something else. I didn't like this season but it was better than expected. I will be pissed if we go 7-9 next season and still have plenty of holes to fill.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

It was almost comical seeing some reactions to our QB and our results.  It's almost like they ignored the commentary of every football analyst under the sun.

---------------------------------------------
To play devils advocate those same analysts agreed with everything Parcells did. The whole football world felt like he was our saviour. Looking back in hindsight how did that work for us?

That's a good point.  Outside of proving that it's hard to predict the future and even the best of experts are going to be wrong sometimes, I can't imagine there have been many times in NFL history were a rookie QB and Head coach had a lot of success their first year.  Especially, if that that team was coming off a season were they had no chance of the playoffs.

Furthermore, I don't remember too many predictions from our fans for the Dolphins to have a winning record.  If you predict a bad record and you get a bad record, why the drama?
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Posted: 1/6/2013 7:28 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 


I think this is what it comes down to: We did have a better season than many expected before week 1. We were generally predicted around 5-11 or 6-10, and we finished 7-9.

However, the way in which we went about our 7-9 finish is what is so frustrating - because to me, it didn't seem like we got the most out of our team. We lose 2 very winnable games early against ARZ and NY - both could have been won by Carpenter. We then lose a tough game to the Colts (thanks to a 2nd half no-show), and suddenly...
We lay huge eggs in the easiest part of our schedule, dropping consecutive games to the Titans & Bills.
A good win against the Seahawks, best of the year. Then, we play very well against the Pats and 49ers - but in both games we gift the opposition points with special teams gaffs and lack of discipline. And we end the season on a low note with a complete no-show against the Pats.

I'm not upset with our record, but I'm worried that this year's squad has a habit of beating itself - losing 2 games outright (AZ & Jets), and helping the Pats & 49ers.
More importantly, we don't show up to play every week - Tenn & Buffalo were must wins and the team was nowhere to be found. Could have made a statement against New England in wk 17, and instead we laid down for them.

The reason we were predicted as being so bad were due to our QB, WRs, and CBs before the season. Tannehill, in the majority of games, gave us a chance to win & was much better than expected. While our WR's continued to disappoint, Hartline stepped his game up, and Bess was solid. Coyle did a very good job w/ the corners, considering the state of our roster -- we were better than expected at our position's of weakness, and still managed to give games away.

I am still very optimistic about next season - we definitely can make the jump to contender this offseason - and the sky is not falling. But I'm by no means content with how this season played out.
Somebody gave me a Hickey.
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Posted: 1/6/2013 8:16 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 




---------------------------------------------
--- rightNexact wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- mlb1399 wrote:


dstock21 wrote: If I felt like it I would go through the archives and find what people thought we were going to finish. I don't know why everyone acts so disappointed in our season.

It was almost comical seeing some reactions to our QB and our results.  It's almost like they ignored the commentary of every football analyst under the sun.

---------------------------------------------
To play devils advocate those same analysts agreed with everything Parcells did. The whole football world felt like he was our saviour. Looking back in hindsight how did that work for us?

---------------------------------------------

That season was completely different. Chad Pennington falling into our lap helped keep that BS alive. Before we got Penny I think it was Chad Henne, John Beck, and maybe Cleo Lemon battling it out. If Farve stayed retired Parcells plan may have been exposed a season earlier. I know you can't change peoples minds here and some people are just negative no matter what. We will be divided on this (not me and you personally) until next season or hopefully until after the draft and free agency when again hopefully Ireland lands some good players to improve this team and make us paper contenders and get us excited again.
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  • mlb1399
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Posted: 1/6/2013 9:51 AM

RE: Tannehill and dropped passes 



Jschwald wrote: I think this is what it comes down to: We did have a better season than many expected before week 1. We were generally predicted around 5-11 or 6-10, and we finished 7-9.

However, the way in which we went about our 7-9 finish is what is so frustrating - because to me, it didn't seem like we got the most out of our team. We lose 2 very winnable games early against ARZ and NY - both could have been won by Carpenter. We then lose a tough game to the Colts (thanks to a 2nd half no-show), and suddenly...
We lay huge eggs in the easiest part of our schedule, dropping consecutive games to the Titans & Bills.
A good win against the Seahawks, best of the year. Then, we play very well against the Pats and 49ers - but in both games we gift the opposition points with special teams gaffs and lack of discipline. And we end the season on a low note with a complete no-show against the Pats.

I'm not upset with our record, but I'm worried that this year's squad has a habit of beating itself - losing 2 games outright (AZ & Jets), and helping the Pats & 49ers.
More importantly, we don't show up to play every week - Tenn & Buffalo were must wins and the team was nowhere to be found. Could have made a statement against New England in wk 17, and instead we laid down for them.

The reason we were predicted as being so bad were due to our QB, WRs, and CBs before the season. Tannehill, in the majority of games, gave us a chance to win & was much better than expected. While our WR's continued to disappoint, Hartline stepped his game up, and Bess was solid. Coyle did a very good job w/ the corners, considering the state of our roster -- we were better than expected at our position's of weakness, and still managed to give games away.

I am still very optimistic about next season - we definitely can make the jump to contender this offseason - and the sky is not falling. But I'm by no means content with how this season played out.

I hear ya.  Going 4-2 certainly got all of our hopes up and got us dreaming of the playoffs. 

The reality is that the first half our schedule was pretty easy while the last half was very tough.

Those ups and downs are a result of having the 2nd youngest team in the NFL and a rookie QB.  I know a lot of people would rather win 2 games than 7 games because of the draft picks but I think learning how to win, especially for a young team, is very important.

As you pointed out, if our special teams had been more consistent we easily could have been a 8, 9 or even 10 win team.
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