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Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dynasty

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Posted: 12/10/2012 10:04 PM

Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dynasty 


I am not sure which forum to put this in  but I have some questions about  building a dynasty  in the three major sports.

 and I would like to know  why the other cities  can hang on to a top tier team  while miami cant    have a sports team that can have the kind  of success like the Patriots  , Lakers , Bulls ,  ,NY Yankees  , and the Pittsburgh Steelers  ?

WHAT  I'M getting at is the 70's  the dolphins were good for only three or four years  then came  the steelers , cowboys and Raiders.   in the 80's   the 49ers and cowboys  were the top teams.

Baseball isnt something i am passionate about but  the Heat and dolphins  I am realy passionate about. 

so why cant  Miami build a dominate sports team  like  the Patriots  or the Lakers ?  if  other towns can do it  then why not Miami  .

the dolphins  seem like  they are unwilling  to go for the throat  while the heat  moves for the bigtime players but  they may be breaking apart in this next offseason so  I really want to understand  more about the opposite ends of the spectrum  mainly  the pats and dolphins   so  can anyone  give me some insight as to why Miami cant be a more dominate sports town ?

 thank you .noidea

Last edited 12/11/2012 9:50 AM by Marx8385

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Posted: 12/11/2012 9:49 AM

Re: which forum does this belong in 


I've wondered this myself for years......and while the town (type of fans) is important, in terms of dynasties I really think it has to do with the ownership.  Bob Kraft or John Henry or obviously Steinbrenner are incredibly passionate about their sport and their town and competitive.  So they do whatever is necessary.  And are brilliant about how they go about it. Whereas you have the Cubs with what might be the BEST fan base ever in the history of sports, but owners that are never serious enough to compete for a championship.

Plus in baseball I don't believe there is still any type of salary cap issue, so baseball comparison is not exactly apples to oranges.

Football - 49ers the same back in the 80s and 90s with Eddie DeBartolo / Carmen Policy.   Jerry Jones w/the Cowboys.  Basketball you mentioned the Heat, well you have Pat Riley. Mavericks you've got Cuban.  etc etc

I think behind every dynasty like that, you're going to find a serious owner.


And I'll leave this in this forum for now, it seems on topic enough because it is pondering the Dolphins compared to other franchises.  I will modify the subject tho instead of "which forum does this belong".  biggrin



Last edited 12/11/2012 9:59 AM by Marx8385

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Posted: 12/11/2012 10:42 AM

Re: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a 


The concept, in football, is easy yet nearly impossible to implement.

#1: Find a franchise QB
#2: Find a franchise headcoach
#3: Never give up on #1 and #2

Miami's last two headcoaches have either been fired or are about to be fired as assistant coaches. Not rocket science that neither are franchise material

Miami spent most of the 2000's resigning franchise MLB and DE's and drafting franchise LT's. Zach and JT and Surtain and Tim Bowens and Jake Long are great players, but while you have Jay Fielder and Matt Moore taking the snaps it don't really matter much does it?
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Posted: 12/11/2012 10:57 AM

Re: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a 



TourDeForce wrote: The concept, in football, is easy yet nearly impossible to implement.

#1: Find a franchise QB
#2: Find a franchise headcoach
#3: Never give up on #1 and #2

Miami's last two headcoaches have either been fired or are about to be fired as assistant coaches. Not rocket science that neither are franchise material

Miami spent most of the 2000's resigning franchise MLB and DE's and drafting franchise LT's. Zach and JT and Surtain and Tim Bowens and Jake Long are great players, but while you have Jay Fielder and Matt Moore taking the snaps it don't really matter much does it?

Very good point about the QB position.   And head coach as well, same examples above - Joe Montana.  Troy Aikman.  Bill Walsh.  Jimmy Johnson.



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Posted: 12/11/2012 11:08 AM

Re: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a 



Marx8385 wrote:
TourDeForce wrote: The concept, in football, is easy yet nearly impossible to implement.

#1: Find a franchise QB
#2: Find a franchise headcoach
#3: Never give up on #1 and #2

Miami's last two headcoaches have either been fired or are about to be fired as assistant coaches. Not rocket science that neither are franchise material

Miami spent most of the 2000's resigning franchise MLB and DE's and drafting franchise LT's. Zach and JT and Surtain and Tim Bowens and Jake Long are great players, but while you have Jay Fielder and Matt Moore taking the snaps it don't really matter much does it?

Very good point about the QB position.   And head coach as well, same examples above - Joe Montana.  Troy Aikman.  Bill Walsh.  Jimmy Johnson.

Heard comment last night that Brady and Belicheck are only two remaining players coaches from 2000-2001 superbowl team. since then Miami was hring and firing, and building a stout defense that would compete for 2nd, 3rd and 4th place every year.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:16 PM

Re: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a 



TourDeForce wrote: The concept, in football, is easy yet nearly impossible to implement.

#1: Find a franchise QB
#2: Find a franchise headcoach
#3: Never give up on #1 and #2

Miami's last two headcoaches have either been fired or are about to be fired as assistant coaches. Not rocket science that neither are franchise material

Miami spent most of the 2000's resigning franchise MLB and DE's and drafting franchise LT's. Zach and JT and Surtain and Tim Bowens and Jake Long are great players, but while you have Jay Fielder and Matt Moore taking the snaps it don't really matter much does it?

great point   Tour
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Posted: 12/11/2012 8:50 PM

Re: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a 



TourDeForce wrote:
Marx8385 wrote:
TourDeForce wrote: The concept, in football, is easy yet nearly impossible to implement.

#1: Find a franchise QB
#2: Find a franchise headcoach
#3: Never give up on #1 and #2

Miami's last two headcoaches have either been fired or are about to be fired as assistant coaches. Not rocket science that neither are franchise material

Miami spent most of the 2000's resigning franchise MLB and DE's and drafting franchise LT's. Zach and JT and Surtain and Tim Bowens and Jake Long are great players, but while you have Jay Fielder and Matt Moore taking the snaps it don't really matter much does it?

Very good point about the QB position.   And head coach as well, same examples above - Joe Montana.  Troy Aikman.  Bill Walsh.  Jimmy Johnson.

Heard comment last night that Brady and Belicheck are only two remaining players coaches from 2000-2001 superbowl team. since then Miami was hring and firing, and building a stout defense that would compete for 2nd, 3rd and 4th place every year.
LOL.

Wow.  They are the only two remaining, that is crazy.



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  • mlb1399
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Posted: 12/11/2012 10:12 PM

Re: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a 


To add to the QB and coach:

1) Don't completely waste your draft picks every year from 2000-2009
2) Don't trade good draft picks for stop gap QB's(Culpepper, Feely)
3) Spend a 1st round draft pick on a franchise QB, don't continue wasting good draft picks on potential QB's in the 2nd round(Henne, Beck)
4) Don't draft an OT in the top 10 picks, playmakers only in the top 10(QB, OLB, DE, CB, WR)
5) Don't use a 1st round pick for a RB, they don't last long enough and in todays NFL you need RB by committee.  If you do, it should be in the bottom 1/3 of the 1st round
6) Don't turn over your staff every 2-3 years
7) Don't pay for high paid mercenaries(Free Agents) unless it's a franchise QB
8) Build your core through the draft, players that have been in the locker room, practice, heart break and victories.  Add role players at decent rates in FA.

Pretty much everything we have done over the last decade
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Posted: 12/12/2012 9:58 AM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 


Pretty simple really. Passing on Drew Brees twice. Not picking Aron Rodgers. Jake Long over Matt Ryan and now Ryan Tannehill over Russell Wilson.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 10:15 AM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 



birdmond wrote: Pretty simple really. Passing on Drew Brees twice. Not picking Aron Rodgers. Jake Long over Matt Ryan and now Ryan Tannehill over Russell Wilson.

I agree except Tannehill over Wilson. Thats like saying we draft Todd Wade instead of Tom Brady. Everyone missed on Wilson, even the Seahawks missed on his twice.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 10:21 AM

Re: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a 


MiaFan touched on something in the Long thread that I also want to add to this thread, as it relates.  How we've been stuck in the .500 range for so long and how that effects our draft picks.  It's driven me nuts for years upon years.  Here's my comment in the other thread:

Marx8385 wrote:
MiaFan1 wrote:
2-when we pick a QB it's usually a lower pick because of our 7-9 7-9 8-8 6-10 5-11 11-5 season records keeping us mediocre at best in the draft.
This to me is probably one of the, if not most prolific reasons why this team has been stuck in mediocrity for so long.......they never go all out one way or another. LOL. The one year we actually did, 1-15, was the year we took Long and let's be honest, the QBs weren't exactly amazing in that draft, just our luck. But for the most part we're always dancing around 500 or just below it with the 7-9s 6-10s 5-11s and 8-8s and so we never get that franchise pick that turns the franchise around.......



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Posted: 12/12/2012 12:28 PM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 




---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote: Pretty simple really. Passing on Drew Brees twice. Not picking Aron Rodgers. Jake Long over Matt Ryan and now Ryan Tannehill over Russell Wilson.

I agree except Tannehill over Wilson. Thats like saying we draft Todd Wade instead of Tom Brady. Everyone missed on Wilson, even the Seahawks missed on his twice.

---------------------------------------------

Almost everyone passed on Drew Bree's twice. It still doesn't make it right. There is a chance that Wilson could be offensive rookie of the year and Kuechly could be defensive rookie of the year and we could have had them both.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 12:45 PM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 



birdmond wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote: Pretty simple really. Passing on Drew Brees twice. Not picking Aron Rodgers. Jake Long over Matt Ryan and now Ryan Tannehill over Russell Wilson.

I agree except Tannehill over Wilson. Thats like saying we draft Todd Wade instead of Tom Brady. Everyone missed on Wilson, even the Seahawks missed on his twice.

---------------------------------------------

Almost everyone passed on Drew Bree's twice. It still doesn't make it right. There is a chance that Wilson could be offensive rookie of the year and Kuechly could be defensive rookie of the year and we could have had them both.

Brees was taken with 1st pick of 2nd round, about 6-7 picks after the Phins took Jamar Fletcher. That is close enough to say that we missed the pick.

There is no way I'm going to say Wilson is a better pick then Tannehill. Its rookie year and a long way to go.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:00 PM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 




---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote: Pretty simple really. Passing on Drew Brees twice. Not picking Aron Rodgers. Jake Long over Matt Ryan and now Ryan Tannehill over Russell Wilson.

I agree except Tannehill over Wilson. Thats like saying we draft Todd Wade instead of Tom Brady. Everyone missed on Wilson, even the Seahawks missed on his twice.

---------------------------------------------

Almost everyone passed on Drew Bree's twice. It still doesn't make it right. There is a chance that Wilson could be offensive rookie of the year and Kuechly could be defensive rookie of the year and we could have had them both.

Brees was taken with 1st pick of 2nd round, about 6-7 picks after the Phins took Jamar Fletcher. That is close enough to say that we missed the pick.

There is no way I'm going to say Wilson is a better pick then Tannehill. Its rookie year and a long way to go.

---------------------------------------------
In time you will. LOL
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Posted: 12/12/2012 2:21 PM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 



birdmond wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote: Pretty simple really. Passing on Drew Brees twice. Not picking Aron Rodgers. Jake Long over Matt Ryan and now Ryan Tannehill over Russell Wilson.

I agree except Tannehill over Wilson. Thats like saying we draft Todd Wade instead of Tom Brady. Everyone missed on Wilson, even the Seahawks missed on his twice.

---------------------------------------------

Almost everyone passed on Drew Bree's twice. It still doesn't make it right. There is a chance that Wilson could be offensive rookie of the year and Kuechly could be defensive rookie of the year and we could have had them both.

Brees was taken with 1st pick of 2nd round, about 6-7 picks after the Phins took Jamar Fletcher. That is close enough to say that we missed the pick.

There is no way I'm going to say Wilson is a better pick then Tannehill. Its rookie year and a long way to go.

---------------------------------------------
In time you will. LOL
Can you tell me my future too? I'd love to make some money if you can point out some stocks that will rise soon...

Unless you're just speculating of course.
Somebody gave me a Hickey.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 3:48 PM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 




---------------------------------------------
--- Jschwald wrote:


birdmond wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote: Pretty simple really. Passing on Drew Brees twice. Not picking Aron Rodgers. Jake Long over Matt Ryan and now Ryan Tannehill over Russell Wilson.

I agree except Tannehill over Wilson. Thats like saying we draft Todd Wade instead of Tom Brady. Everyone missed on Wilson, even the Seahawks missed on his twice.

---------------------------------------------

Almost everyone passed on Drew Bree's twice. It still doesn't make it right. There is a chance that Wilson could be offensive rookie of the year and Kuechly could be defensive rookie of the year and we could have had them both.

Brees was taken with 1st pick of 2nd round, about 6-7 picks after the Phins took Jamar Fletcher. That is close enough to say that we missed the pick.

There is no way I'm going to say Wilson is a better pick then Tannehill. Its rookie year and a long way to go.

---------------------------------------------
In time you will. LOL
Can you tell me my future too? I'd love to make some money if you can point out some stocks that will rise soon...

Unless you're just speculating of course.

---------------------------------------------

Only if it is draft related. As TDF knows I wanted Kuechly and Wilson. The draft is my baby and I guarantee you Wilson will have a better career than Tannehill.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 3:58 PM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 



---------------------------------------------
--- Jschwald wrote:


birdmond wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:


birdmond wrote: Pretty simple really. Passing on Drew Brees twice. Not picking Aron Rodgers. Jake Long over Matt Ryan and now Ryan Tannehill over Russell Wilson.

I agree except Tannehill over Wilson. Thats like saying we draft Todd Wade instead of Tom Brady. Everyone missed on Wilson, even the Seahawks missed on his twice.

---------------------------------------------

Almost everyone passed on Drew Bree's twice. It still doesn't make it right. There is a chance that Wilson could be offensive rookie of the year and Kuechly could be defensive rookie of the year and we could have had them both.

Brees was taken with 1st pick of 2nd round, about 6-7 picks after the Phins took Jamar Fletcher. That is close enough to say that we missed the pick.

There is no way I'm going to say Wilson is a better pick then Tannehill. Its rookie year and a long way to go.

---------------------------------------------
In time you will. LOL
Can you tell me my future too? I'd love to make some money if you can point out some stocks that will rise soon...

Unless you're just speculating of course.

---------------------------------------------

Oh and as for stocks, look at ATSG. Air Transport Services Group. 😁

Last edited 12/12/2012 3:59 PM by birdmond

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Posted: 12/12/2012 4:05 PM

Re: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a 


Well as they say hindsight is 20/20, and to that I add when it comes to Ireland, I believe he does only have sight via his hind.


And as for stocks, well in stocks you look at trends. So if you go off of trends, he's probably right, because when it comes to Miami Dolphins on draft day the trend is we usually suck. LOL.



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Posted: 12/12/2012 10:16 PM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 


I go with were never really bad enough long enough to get the quality players we need. Usually these teams are picking top 5 for 2 or 3 years and it enables them to grab a core group of players that grow together. We have 1 really bad season then were back to the middle of the pack, needless to say QB is a big part of it, miss like we have the last couple of times then your in no mans land thinking and hoping he gets better and waisting 3 years...
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Posted: 12/12/2012 10:26 PM

RE: Why cant Miami build a dominate sports team? Building a Dyn 


You know it was really hard to criticize the hiring of Sherman before the season and i don't remember anyone criticizing his hiring as the OC over the departed Daboll.

He was the head coach of the Packers for 5 years and had a respectable record. He laid an egg in college his last year but had a few decent seasons. I don't fault the selection of Philbin or Sherman but I'm not of the opinion you need to give them "more time" if they suck now.

Right now they suck but they'll get another year because Ireland needs to go before them because he has sucked longer.

Last edited 12/12/2012 10:27 PM by FreeWanny

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