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Recap 2009 Draft

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:32 AM

Recap 2009 Draft 


•Round One (25)- Vontae Davis CB
•Round Two (44)- Pat White QB
•Round Two (61)- Sean Smith CB
•Round Three (87)- Patrick Turner WR
•Round Four (108)- Brian Hartline WR
•Round Five (161)- John Nalbone TE
•Round Five (165)- Chris Clemons FS
•Round Six (181)- Andrew Gardner T
•Round Seven (214)- JD Folsom LB

3 Starters and a 2013 2nd round pick. Not terrible. I'd give it a B-


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Posted: 11/21/2012 12:19 PM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 




---------------------------------------------
--- TourDeForce wrote:

•Round One (25)- Vontae Davis CB
•Round Two (44)- Pat White QB
•Round Two (61)- Sean Smith CB
•Round Three (87)- Patrick Turner WR
•Round Four (108)- Brian Hartline WR
•Round Five (161)- John Nalbone TE
•Round Five (165)- Chris Clemons FS
•Round Six (181)- Andrew Gardner T
•Round Seven (214)- JD Folsom LB

3 Starters and a 2013 2nd round pick. Not terrible. I'd give it a B-

Any draft with Pat White gets an automatic C.




---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 11/21/2012 12:35 PM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 


Drafts are judged by hits not misses. The Pats first two picks in 2000 were Adrian Klemm and J.R. Redmond - I think they're more concerned with Tom Brady.

B- sounds fair - Two big misses in white and Turner, but three starters and a 2013 2nd rounder as you said.
Somebody gave me a Hickey.
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  • mikdo
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Posted: 11/21/2012 3:03 PM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 


Heres the problem: You cant help but draft a few starters, with todays technology your bound to hit a few.  Theres actually 4 starters in this group. But i look @ the draft by what they could have picked:

as opposed to Vontae...CLAY MATHEWS, HICKS

as opposed to Patty White....Connor Barwin, Lesean mcCoy
i could go on


Id give it a solid D, specially if u imagine Clay lined up opposite Wake
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Posted: 11/21/2012 3:17 PM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 




---------------------------------------------
--- mikdo wrote:

Heres the problem: You cant help but draft a few starters, with todays technology your bound to hit a few.  Theres actually 4 starters in this group. But i look @ the draft by what they could have picked:

as opposed to Vontae...CLAY MATHEWS, HICKS

as opposed to Patty White....Connor Barwin, Lesean mcCoy
i could go on


Id give it a solid D, specially if u imagine Clay lined up opposite Wake

---------------------------------------------

Opportunity costs, as they say in Economics.
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Posted: 11/21/2012 3:32 PM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 



mikdo wrote: Heres the problem: You cant help but draft a few starters, with todays technology your bound to hit a few.  Theres actually 4 starters in this group. But i look @ the draft by what they could have picked:

as opposed to Vontae...CLAY MATHEWS, HICKS

as opposed to Patty White....Connor Barwin, Lesean mcCoy
i could go on


Id give it a solid D, specially if u imagine Clay lined up opposite Wake

If Mo Lewis hadn't laid out Drew Bledsoe then Tom Brady would be the WR coach at Cal, a $40 a month haircut, and married to a much less hotter supermodel.

And to say that the Phins will always land a few starters in every draft???? You obviously were not a fan of the team from 2000 to about 2007 where the team found maybe 1-2 starters total over that 7 year stretch.
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  • mikdo
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Posted: 11/21/2012 5:53 PM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 


TOUR,

(And to say that the Phins will always land a few starters in every draft???? You
obviously were not a fan of the team from 2000 to about 2007 where the team
found maybe 1-2 starters total over that 7 year stretch)

NO, i said that i believe with a solid draft from a good position u should find YES 2-3 maybe 4 starters per draft.

I DIDNT SAY the fish have successfully done it, a good model to look at IMO is the Bengals, take them @ look @ there last 3-4 drafts. They might suk but there drafting starters.
"
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Posted: 11/21/2012 6:01 PM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 



mikdo wrote: Heres the problem: You cant help but draft a few starters, with todays technology your bound to hit a few.  Theres actually 4 starters in this group. But i look @ the draft by what they could have picked:

as opposed to Vontae...CLAY MATHEWS, HICKS

as opposed to Patty White....Connor Barwin, Lesean mcCoy
i could go on


Id give it a solid D, specially if u imagine Clay lined up opposite Wake
That is just such a load of crap it's unbelievable. You can't help but find a couple starters? It's really that easy? Yes, we could have drafted Clay Matthews - cool. I could draft an All Pro team in hindsight too.

The Patriots had 12 picks in that draft. The only starters they got were Vollmer and Edelman.

The Bills got 3: Byrd, Levitre, and Eric Wood. They also used a first round pick on Aaron Maybin, even a bigger bust than Pat White

The Jets got 3, too: Mark Sanchez, Shonn Greene, and Matt Slauson. And the first two wouldn't be starters on 90% of teams in the league.

So our 3 starters and a 2nd round pick (and considering Vontae started in Indy before his injury you can say 4 starters) was actually the best in the division. So do some F*%^!ng research before you post.banghead
Somebody gave me a Hickey.
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Posted: 11/21/2012 6:02 PM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 


NFL GMs look for 3 starters after 3 years from a given draft, that is the standard and we exceeded it. But please, continue your bitching.
Somebody gave me a Hickey.
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Posted: 11/21/2012 8:40 PM

RE: Recap 2009 Draft 


Keep in mind we were also drafting for needed positions at that time and not the BPA. Like alot of other teams (Pats,Steelers,Packers,Saints etc...).
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Posted: 11/22/2012 7:07 AM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 



Jschwald wrote: NFL GMs look for 3 starters after 3 years from a given draft, that is the standard and we exceeded it. But please, continue your bitching.
I just can't imagine anyone not bitching.  Today's NFL is about play makers and we have none. To me it is that simple.   Getting three starters on a horrible team is not an accomplishment IMO.
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  • mlb1399
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Posted: 11/22/2012 8:47 AM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 


I see 2, maybe 1 quality starter out of that draft.  Hartline has been a pleasant surprise and I think can be a pretty good #2 WR.  Smith has flashes but fails to make plays that can win this football team plays.  He's probably a quality #2 CB but certainly not a top tier or #1 CB.  Clemons, well, he wouldn't start on many teams if any others.  He's just quite frankly bad.

I'd give the draft a C-.  It wasn't great or even good.  A lot will depend what we get out of that 2nd round draft pick for Davis.  That could be the difference maker for this draft.

When you compare it to other Dolphins drafts, which many of them are F's, a C- seems like a great draft.
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Posted: 11/23/2012 5:40 AM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 



mlb1399 wrote: I see 2, maybe 1 quality starter out of that draft.  Hartline has been a pleasant surprise and I think can be a pretty good #2 WR.  Smith has flashes but fails to make plays that can win this football team plays.  He's probably a quality #2 CB but certainly not a top tier or #1 CB.  Clemons, well, he wouldn't start on many teams if any others.  He's just quite frankly bad.

I'd give the draft a C-.  It wasn't great or even good.  A lot will depend what we get out of that 2nd round draft pick for Davis.  That could be the difference maker for this draft.

When you compare it to other Dolphins drafts, which many of them are F's, a C- seems like a great draft.
Great point about what we get from that second round pick.   So the grade must be incomplete IMO.
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Posted: 11/23/2012 8:26 AM

Re: Recap 2009 Draft 



birdmond wrote: 

Great point about what we get from that second round pick.   So the grade must be incomplete IMO.
I don't think that the draft can be graded incomplete - the second round pick we use will be evaluated as a part of the 2013 draft.

IMO you have to evaluate the picks we made: Vontae, Smith, White, Turner, Hartline, Clemons, unimportant non-contributors. Given the fact that Vontae and Smith are both pretty solid starters, but underachievers, I would grade the first two picks a B. The next two, White and Turner, deserve an F. I'd go lower if I could.
Ireland gets an A from me on Hartline, finding a solid starting (though not #1) receiver in the 4th. He is a good #2, flanker, which is pretty good for a 4th round pick and helps negate the bust that was Patrick Turner. 
The rest of the picks combined warrant a B. Clemons is a starter (and despite proclamations that he wouldn't start on any other team, he is rated the #19 safety in the league by PFF. Our two safeties actually give us the highest combined overall grade of any team in the league). Nalbone and Gardner are still in the league, but fringe players. Folsom is gone.

The average of these grades would be about a B, but you also have to value the higher picks at a heavier value. Thus, I'd say the draft deserves a C+ or B-.
Somebody gave me a Hickey.

Last edited 11/23/2012 8:28 AM by Jschwald

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Posted: 11/23/2012 9:09 AM

RE: Recap 2009 Draft 


Given the fact that Parcells was the boss at this time and influenced every one of these picks in one way or another I throw this draft out. Parcells took the Bullet for Pat White, who knows who wanted Pat Turner I'm guessing he was a Parcells guy since Ireland seems reluctant to pick WRs. I think if you want to grade Ireland you have to wait until Parcells was out of the picture and he wouldn't have to worry about answering to him if he swung and missed and didn't have him influencing his picks. There is no doubt Ireland can spot talent, he has loaded this team with good not great players at almost every position through draft picks or free agency signings. If he were to be fired and somebody with a knack for finding playmakers were hired we could be contenders with one good offseason.
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Posted: 11/23/2012 9:27 AM

RE: Recap 2009 Draft 



dstock21 wrote: Given the fact that Parcells was the boss at this time and influenced every one of these picks in one way or another I throw this draft out. Parcells took the Bullet for Pat White, who knows who wanted Pat Turner I'm guessing he was a Parcells guy since Ireland seems reluctant to pick WRs. I think if you want to grade Ireland you have to wait until Parcells was out of the picture and he wouldn't have to worry about answering to him if he swung and missed and didn't have him influencing his picks. There is no doubt Ireland can spot talent, he has loaded this team with good not great players at almost every position through draft picks or free agency signings. If he were to be fired and somebody with a knack for finding playmakers were hired we could be contenders with one good offseason.
Eh, I only agree with this post between 250 and 1000%
Somebody gave me a Hickey.
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Posted: 11/23/2012 9:34 AM

RE: Recap 2009 Draft 


When your a bad team, drafting so called starters can be nothing but a mirage because they're starting because they're less crappy than other players on the roster.


Nolan Carroll is starting for us. Was he a steal in the 6th round?
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Posted: 11/23/2012 9:47 AM

RE: Recap 2009 Draft 


Nolan Carroll is a starter because of injury, he was not penciled in as a starter, so that logic doesn't apply. And yes, he was a good 5th* round pick. How many 5th rounders contribute to their team in any fashion? He's been an ok emergency starter, and not the major reason for secondary issues (Jimmy Wilson and dropped INTs). For the most part he's played ok, and is a fine 3rd or 4th corner, which is really what you'd expect out of a 5th rounder.

Sean Smith and Brian Hartline would start on just about any team in the league, though neither are elite, and since Chris Clemons is a top 20 safety right now I don't think your argument holds weight for him either.

I'd say that logic applies to John Jerry, Koa Misi, Jared Odrick, Richard Marshall, Javorskie Lane/Charles Clay/Marlon Moore (whoever you would say the starter is), and Davone Bess (who is a slot receiver, not a starting flanker). But none of them were drafted in 2009, so that's irrelevant.
Somebody gave me a Hickey.

Last edited 11/23/2012 9:48 AM by Jschwald

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Posted: 11/23/2012 2:58 PM

RE: Recap 2009 Draft 


Nolan Carrol contributes because there is such a dearth in talent in the secondary on this team he is playing opposite Sean Smith.  Sean Smith is not a shut down CB himself, but he is adequate as a 2nd cb or a Free Safety.  I think if you look at the draft objectively, you see that the team drafted 3 solid starters in Davis, Smith and Hartline which isn't bad. 

Nolan Carrol, as noted above should be a nickle or dime CB but injuries to Marshall have pushed him into the starting spot and he's just not good enough to be there.  The rest of the draft was putrid.  The Pat White pick was dismal. Regardless of what anyone thinks or says, that pick was absolutely atrocious.  I thought as much when teh pickw as made, voiced my opinion on Pat White immediately and wished I was wrong about it but I wasn't.  The Pat Turner pick didn't work out, but it wasn't a horrible pick at the time.  The team needed WR's and Turner was a Big Bodied guy with sure hands.  He was just slower than peat and couldn't run routes well enough to be much of a factor, but it wasn't an atrocious pick.

Regardless, the team has had some success drafting certain positions since Ireland has been here, but his inability to find playmakers at key positions has been a glaring issue.  That's why, after 5 years of Ireland drafts, I hope and pray Miami fires him at the end of the season.

"Make it Rain Hell"

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Posted: 11/23/2012 4:27 PM

RE: Recap 2009 Draft 



Jschwald wrote:
dstock21 wrote: Given the fact that Parcells was the boss at this time and influenced every one of these picks in one way or another I throw this draft out. Parcells took the Bullet for Pat White, who knows who wanted Pat Turner I'm guessing he was a Parcells guy since Ireland seems reluctant to pick WRs. I think if you want to grade Ireland you have to wait until Parcells was out of the picture and he wouldn't have to worry about answering to him if he swung and missed and didn't have him influencing his picks. There is no doubt Ireland can spot talent, he has loaded this team with good not great players at almost every position through draft picks or free agency signings. If he were to be fired and somebody with a knack for finding playmakers were hired we could be contenders with one good offseason.
Eh, I only agree with this post between 250 and 1000%
Yeah,  I begrudgingly agree as well.  What do you guys think of the urban legend that Ross forced Ireland to draft Tannehill?
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