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Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not...

Posted: 6/22/2014 8:55 PM

Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


to lose is watching the USA soccer team play the last 5 minutes scared to lose.  Pitiful loss today by USA.
We had it and chose to be passive rather than continuing to attack.
--Legalism says God will love us if we change. Jesus says He will change us if we surrender to His Love --
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Posted: 6/22/2014 11:59 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


I try to not get into soccer arguments because they aren't productive, but thats apples to oranges. USA did exactly what they should've done. Soccer is just a cruel game sometimes. At the end of every game there are so many what ifs. I'm just glad some of you guys are watching. Come join us at Hilligans in BG for the next game if you want to join the party.
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Posted: 6/23/2014 9:32 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 



WoodyWhite13 wrote: I try to not get into soccer arguments because they aren't productive, but thats apples to oranges. USA did exactly what they should've done. Soccer is just a cruel game sometimes. At the end of every game there are so many what ifs. I'm just glad some of you guys are watching. Come join us at Hilligans in BG for the next game if you want to join the party.
My soccer knowledge is very, very limited, and I know the U.S played a great game (for the most part.) But wasn't that last play pretty inexcusable? I know it took a tremendous cross, but there were 3-4 defenders around the guy who took the shot.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I want to learn more about the sport hah. Sometimes I hit the nail on the head, other times I'm wayyyyyy off.
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Jordan Wells

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Follow me on Twitter: @JWellsScout

Last edited 6/23/2014 9:32 AM by JWellsFOX

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Posted: 6/23/2014 10:02 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


I am not a huge soccer expert, but yea you would think our guys could keep track of the only one guy who could have scored that goal with seconds left in contest....Should still advance even if we lose to Germany as long as its a respectable game but we also need Ghana to not go off vs. Portugal....So we went to controlling everything to now needing a little help and luck which hardly ever works out for USA soccer if the past is any indication. Also if we do advance beating Belgium would be a lot harder than Algeria or Russia....
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Posted: 6/23/2014 10:10 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


We didn't lose...we tied...big difference. 
robjbrown99 wrote: to lose is watching the USA soccer team play the last 5 minutes scared to lose.  Pitiful loss today by USA.
We had it and chose to be passive rather than continuing to attack.
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Posted: 6/23/2014 10:27 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 



WKUFan518 wrote: I am not a huge soccer expert, but yea you would think our guys could keep track of the only one guy who could have scored that goal with seconds left in contest....

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Posted: 6/23/2014 11:15 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


You guys are mostly on it. You never expect to see Michael Bradley give the ball away like he did, but that was still 60+ yards away from goal. Still plenty of time for the defense to recover. In that situation the defense had to know where Ronaldo was and should've got a man on him sooner. And yeah if theres one runner between 3 defenders someone has to have it covered. But when you've played 95 minutes sometimes that kind of stuff happens. You forget where you're man is and what you need to do. That's what separates the good teams from the great teams. USA is a very good team now. But it's those little moments that are keeping us from taking the next step in my eyes.

We still are in very good shape to advance, and a win will still win the group. But man if we were sitting on 6 points right now with wins over Ghana and Portugal the world would 100% be taking notice. Maybe they still are, and a win over Germany will definitely bump us up even more in perception. At this point though we just have to figure out a way to advance. If we play Belgium they are definitely more talented than Algeria or Russia, but nothing i've seen from them scares me. If we get through to the knockouts i'd give us good odds of advancing to a quarterfinal.
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Posted: 6/23/2014 2:51 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... Post Rating (1 vote)


even non-soccer fans knew we choked. i honestly hate soccer but will watch the usa team. you just can't give them that goal. even the goalie choked. there was time to recover on defense. EVERY goal we've given up, this world cup, has been laziness or lack of focus.
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Posted: 6/23/2014 3:03 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


I guarantee you if Gregg Poppovich were coaching that team we WOULD be focused.
nbtoppers2 wrote: even non-soccer fans knew we choked. i honestly hate soccer but will watch the usa team. you just can't give them that goal. even the goalie choked. there was time to recover on defense. EVERY goal we've given up, this world cup, has been laziness or lack of focus.
--Legalism says God will love us if we change. Jesus says He will change us if we surrender to His Love --
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Posted: 6/23/2014 3:48 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


biggrinbiggrinbiggrin
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Posted: 6/23/2014 9:10 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


Here's the thing. They didn't "play not to lose", in that situation you're SUPPOSED to play keep away. "Victory formation" or whatever you call it in soccer, where you try to keep the ball away from the other team and run out the clock. You don't "keep attacking" and risk a turnover and a runout the other way. Does anybody remember the hard attack on the right side just 20 seconds before the big turnover in midfield? They weren't playing not to lose.

Did they choke? Michael Bradley choked. The goalie absolutely did not choke. There's NOTHING Tim Howard could do on that on a cross that he couldn't intercept. That's unreal. The problem was the turnover in midfield, which you just never expect to happen and then a near-miraculous series of events unfold in about 6 seconds to get downfield. Choke job? It took a miracle to beat the USA. Perhaps one defender could have run back a little differently, but when you're running back in soccer, you don't just sprint back and protect the hoop like you do in basketball, where drawing all your players up the field prevents any of their players from running past your men toward your goal, which would be an offside penalty if they kicked it to him.  

It wasn't some massive choke job, by any stretch. The turnover was bad, and it created an opportunity for a fantastic historical World Cup shot. There wasn't really enough time to recover on D once that turnover happened. I don't remember if people were out of position, but everybody was sprinting back. It was a choke job in the sense that there was a miscue, but it's not something that, really, has ever happened to any soccer player that has spoken on the topic. If it could be characterized as anything, it was a fluke, despite the fact that it could have been prevented.

The goalie absolutely did not choke. If anybody did, Michael Bradley did.  And we definitely didn't play not to lose.

Last edited 6/23/2014 9:17 PM by bigsciotaaa

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Posted: 6/23/2014 9:17 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


how did the goalie not? he was over in front of the guy before he even kicked the ball. did they play a good game? absolutely, but it was a choke job.
bigsciotaaa wrote: Here's the thing. They didn't "play not to lose", in that situation you're SUPPOSED to play keep away. "Victory formation" or whatever you call it in soccer, where you try to keep the ball away from the other team and run out the clock. You don't "keep attacking" and risk a turnover and a runout the other way. Does anybody remember the hard attack on the right side just 20 seconds before the big turnover in midfield? They weren't playing not to lose.

Did they choke? Michael Bradley choked. The goalie absolutely did not choke. There's NOTHING Tim Howard could do on that on a cross that he couldn't intercept. That's unreal. The problem was the turnover in midfield, which you just never expect to happen and then a near-miraculous series of events unfold in about 6 seconds to get downfield. Choke job? It took a miracle to beat the USA. Perhaps one defender could have run back a little differently, but when you're running back in soccer, you don't just sprint back and protect the hoop like you do in basketball, where drawing all your players up the field prevents any of their players from running past your men toward your goal, which would be an offside penalty if they kicked it to him.  

It wasn't some massive choke job, by any stretch. The turnover was bad, and it created an opportunity for a fantastic historical World Cup shot. There wasn't really enough time to recover on D once that turnover happened. I don't remember if people were out of position, but everybody was sprinting back. It was a choke job in the sense that there was a miscue, but it's not something that, really, has ever happened to any soccer player that has spoken on the topic. If it could be characterized as anything, it was a fluke, despite the fact that it could have been prevented.

The goalie absolutely did not choke. If anybody did, Michael Bradley did.
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Posted: 6/23/2014 9:45 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


Thank you.  I respectfully disagree.
bigsciotaaa wrote:
The goalie absolutely did not choke. If anybody did, Michael Bradley did.  And we definitely didn't play not to lose.
--Legalism says God will love us if we change. Jesus says He will change us if we surrender to His Love --

Last edited 6/23/2014 9:46 PM by robjbrown99

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Posted: 6/23/2014 10:36 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


NB:

First off, the guy headed the ball about 8-10 yards out in front of the goalie (just inside the penalty kick mark... this spot is just far enough away that Howard had no chance to intercept the cross on the fly... and yet close enough to have zero reaction time). The ball came in at probably 50MPH, then changed direction instantly. You're standing in front of a net that is 24 feet across and 8 ft high. The headed shot went to the goalie's left. He had literally no chance of stopping the header. If you can react and then MOVE fast enough to stop that, you're superman. That was NOT on the goalie. The only way he could have stopped it was if it bounced off of him.  

Also, go watch the replay on espn3. Being in front of the guy doesn't even matter in this situation... when a ball is crossed at top speed, a header is darn near impossible to react to. If you're saying he should have intercepted the cross, it was way out in front of the goal. His initial reaction was to try (he took a step toward cutting it off), and it quickly became obvious he'd never get there.  But he had no reaction time.  That's less time than a 99MPH fast ball comes to the plate... and this "pitch" wasn't within a reachable distance. 

rob:

No worries bro.. disagreement is fun. (at least it should be!)

Last edited 6/23/2014 10:42 PM by bigsciotaaa

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Posted: 6/24/2014 1:21 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


I'm curious how much soccer most of you guys watch. I watch more soccer than I do college basketball, and yall know that's a lot. Just curious about where some of these opinions are coming from.

I love that there is soccer discussion going on right now though. Good or bad, that's big for the sport. It's hard to apply our American ideas about how sports should be played to soccer though. It's such a unique game. Doesn't quite work the way other sports do. That's what makes it beautiful in my eyes. But I hope you guys are enjoying watching the games. Hope you'll check out some other teams besides USA too. There are fantastic games on every day.
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Posted: 6/24/2014 7:34 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 



WoodyWhite13 wrote: I'm curious how much soccer most of you guys watch. I watch more soccer than I do college basketball, and yall know that's a lot. Just curious about where some of these opinions are coming from.

I love that there is soccer discussion going on right now though. Good or bad, that's big for the sport. It's hard to apply our American ideas about how sports should be played to soccer though. It's such a unique game. Doesn't quite work the way other sports do. That's what makes it beautiful in my eyes. But I hope you guys are enjoying watching the games. Hope you'll check out some other teams besides USA too. There are fantastic games on every day.
I will admit the only soccer I watch is in the World Cup and I would say I would be the typical American male......I could care less outside of this event every 4 years (I would think its impossible to keep up with NFL, college football, basketball and soccer at the same time)...I pick NFL, college hoops and college footballbiggrin....Although the way college athletics is heading may have to find another sport madmad

I have noticed, some of the top countries I have watched  in this World Cup. the only thing that seems  lacking for USA  is a guy who can create his own shot and be creative with the ball to get his shot....I think some have said Altidore could be that guy for us but he is hurt....I think our defense and goaltending for the most part ranks right up there with the top 5 countries in this event, just not sure we will every have players like these other countries do...Our top guys play basketball and football unlike those other countries where they grow their top athletes up to use their feet in soccer...

Last edited 6/24/2014 7:37 AM by WKUFan518

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Posted: 6/24/2014 8:09 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


Funny but that was kind of our issue on the WKU basketball team the past couple of years too.
WKUFan518 wrote:
I have noticed, some of the top countries I have watched  in this World Cup. the only thing that seems  lacking for USA  is a guy who can create his own shot and be creative with the ball to get his shot....
--Legalism says God will love us if we change. Jesus says He will change us if we surrender to His Love --
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Posted: 6/24/2014 10:57 AM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


518, that may be the typical American male in our part of the country, but numbers across the country shows that soccer has already passed baseball and is about even with NBA right now in terms of active fans. The USA vs Portugal game had more people watch it than any World Series or NBA Finals game in years. If you combine ESPN and Univision the game had more viewers than the BCS championship.

I think it was Gary Parrish (NCAAB writer) who wrote an article this week saying its time to accept that soccer is mainstream and not just a cult any more. Compared it to sabermetrics in baseball. People may not like it or embrace it, but it's here whether they like it or not.

I'm not saying yall are that way, and I'm never the type of person who will argue soccer's merits over any other sport. But for a guy who has diligently watched every World Cup since 98 and who keeps up with every league in the world as much as I can, it's pretty exciting to see the growth the sport is having.
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Posted: 6/24/2014 12:31 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


Question for Woody (and maybe Sciota, since you both seem most informed.)

This is the first time I've really gotten into soccer. I've been watching a ton of the games and really enjoying it, it's definitely moved in-front of baseball on TV in my mind.

But isn't the World Cup the pinnacle of the sport? Does that make it like the NBA Finals, where anyone can really watch and enjoy?

I'm wondering if there will be a "drop-off" in skill/enjoyment if I start watching other leagues/games, similar to the dropoff from NBA-college-HS games (no one give me that "they don't play defense in the NBA" crap, many of those guys are just so good they're impossible to guard.)

I'm really not informed enough about soccer yet, so maybe I'll be too dumb/numb to notice a dropoff, heh. Just wondering if the drop in quality is as noticeable as it is for American sports when you go down a level.
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Posted: 6/24/2014 12:33 PM

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One of the reasons look how many kids play the game..... My son played from age 5 till 16..... So I have a general knowledge of the game

Baseball is no action and way too long
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Posted: 6/24/2014 12:45 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... Post Rating (1 vote)



WoodyWhite13 wrote: 518, that may be the typical American male in our part of the country, but numbers across the country shows that soccer has already passed baseball and is about even with NBA right now in terms of active fans. The USA vs Portugal game had more people watch it than any World Series or NBA Finals game in years. If you combine ESPN and Univision the game had more viewers than the BCS championship.

I think it was Gary Parrish (NCAAB writer) who wrote an article this week saying its time to accept that soccer is mainstream and not just a cult any more. Compared it to sabermetrics in baseball. People may not like it or embrace it, but it's here whether they like it or not.

I'm not saying yall are that way, and I'm never the type of person who will argue soccer's merits over any other sport. But for a guy who has diligently watched every World Cup since 98 and who keeps up with every league in the world as much as I can, it's pretty exciting to see the growth the sport is having.
Of course, I am into the World Cup too and the ratings are great....Once every 4 years helps ratings when their are only a few matches USA plays every 4 years, so no surprise there its much see TV...If the NBA Finals were very 4 years, I am sure ratings would be through the roof too........But how many Americans follow anything else in soccer once World Cup ends?  Sorry I have no interest in the 8000 other soccer leagues including MLS...Just cannot get into anything soccer wise that does not involve USA as a whole playing for their country...I am sure a lot of people feel the same as me too when it comes to soccer...

Of course I am not sure JW, but have heard soccer experts liken MLS to like Div. II NCAA basketball, so it appears they have a long ways to go and definitely a drop off in talent compared to other leagues in the world....

Last edited 6/24/2014 12:49 PM by WKUFan518

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Posted: 6/24/2014 2:12 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


Jordan, did you enjoy Olympic soccer?



I also noticed I argued a few points counter to Woody...he can run circles around my soccer knowledge I'm sure, so I'll defer to him, without question.

Last edited 6/24/2014 2:13 PM by bigsciotaaa

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Posted: 6/24/2014 3:35 PM

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JW, if you start out watching the top leagues (England, Germany, Spain, Italy) the quality will be as good as the games you see here most of the time. If I'm introducing soccer to someone I start them out with the UEFA Champions League. This is a tournament that includes top teams from all the European leagues. It runs year long as well. Like the name suggests it's basically another league. Those games are extremely high quality.

As far as MLS goes, it's definitely making progress. We ranked 8th in world leagues in terms of sending players to the World Cup. MLS will probably never be on the level of those other leagues, at least until ridiculous money starts pouring in, but it's a pretty good quality league. To make a college basketball comparison, MLS would be the A-10 or MVC or world soccer.
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Posted: 6/24/2014 10:10 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 



bigsciotaaa wrote: Jordan, did you enjoy Olympic soccer?
Didn't really watch =/
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Posted: 6/24/2014 10:11 PM

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WoodyWhite13 wrote: JW, if you start out watching the top leagues (England, Germany, Spain, Italy) the quality will be as good as the games you see here most of the time. If I'm introducing soccer to someone I start them out with the UEFA Champions League. This is a tournament that includes top teams from all the European leagues. It runs year long as well. Like the name suggests it's basically another league. Those games are extremely high quality.

As far as MLS goes, it's definitely making progress. We ranked 8th in world leagues in terms of sending players to the World Cup. MLS will probably never be on the level of those other leagues, at least until ridiculous money starts pouring in, but it's a pretty good quality league. To make a college basketball comparison, MLS would be the A-10 or MVC or world soccer.
Sweet. I'll def. give that a shot.

Your comparisons make a lot of sense too. Thanks.
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Posted: 6/25/2014 3:16 PM

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518 and i are alike in this.

sciota i disagree about Howard. he consistently misplays just about every straight on shot. he makes miracle diving stops, but sucks on straight forward stuff. i'm no soccer scholar, but i've watched enough to see that Howard is severely over rated.
WKUFan518 wrote:
WoodyWhite13 wrote: 518, that may be the typical American male in our part of the country, but numbers across the country shows that soccer has already passed baseball and is about even with NBA right now in terms of active fans. The USA vs Portugal game had more people watch it than any World Series or NBA Finals game in years. If you combine ESPN and Univision the game had more viewers than the BCS championship.

I think it was Gary Parrish (NCAAB writer) who wrote an article this week saying its time to accept that soccer is mainstream and not just a cult any more. Compared it to sabermetrics in baseball. People may not like it or embrace it, but it's here whether they like it or not.

I'm not saying yall are that way, and I'm never the type of person who will argue soccer's merits over any other sport. But for a guy who has diligently watched every World Cup since 98 and who keeps up with every league in the world as much as I can, it's pretty exciting to see the growth the sport is having.
Of course, I am into the World Cup too and the ratings are great....Once every 4 years helps ratings when their are only a few matches USA plays every 4 years, so no surprise there its much see TV...If the NBA Finals were very 4 years, I am sure ratings would be through the roof too........But how many Americans follow anything else in soccer once World Cup ends?  Sorry I have no interest in the 8000 other soccer leagues including MLS...Just cannot get into anything soccer wise that does not involve USA as a whole playing for their country...I am sure a lot of people feel the same as me too when it comes to soccer...

Of course I am not sure JW, but have heard soccer experts liken MLS to like Div. II NCAA basketball, so it appears they have a long ways to go and definitely a drop off in talent compared to other leagues in the world....
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Posted: 6/25/2014 5:37 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


NB, Howard is underated....if anything. However, Michael Bradley is a little overrated, but mostly because he is more of a CDM then a CAM. It is hard to play out of your natural position for most players. Woody, are we ever going to play FIFA, I have messaged you a couple of times!
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Posted: 6/25/2014 11:33 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


NB I love you man, I just don't know how you're so consistently wrong on sports. 

Jubels, dude my bad on that. The guy I live with had been playing it more than I do and we have other guys over at the house all the time that play it. So I just like a couple days ago saw that you had been sending me messages. We'll get it worked out soon.
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Posted: 6/27/2014 5:49 PM

Re: Only thing worse than watching a basketball team play not... 


Caught this late in my busy summer schedule.....1st off:  Howard is a tremendous goalie and kept us in the first round almost singlehandedly at times.

Michael Bradley is a tremendous mid-fielder, and a great touch and long-ball passer that can lead the forwards with some unbelievable balls.  He has had a touch world cup with a few miscues but overall is so so solid.  Also, did anyone see that Bradley could have easily gotten a foul call at midfield when he was charged from behind and knocked off the ball five yards by the contact?

One more point about the so called "choke".  Before the ball came out to midfield we were controlling it to both corners by our forwards running out the time.  Did you see us holding the defender off the ball in the corner and the ball was actually kicked out by Portugal and the referee gave them the ball.  This poor call and the charge at midfield and we win the game and they should never have gotten possession.

Now for the choke.  We had six men back to their two.  The man running with Ronaldo should have taken a penalty, bodied him, and challenged him hard to where the pass was never able to happen.  At the least he knew the ball was going to get crossed and did not even try to block the attempt.  The four or five men not marking anyone in our own box and "ball watching" was just awful defensive play. 

Our defense is not great, not one of the top five.  (our goalie is)  Our players are young and making unfocussed mistakes on defense, they are definitely not marking the weak side on crosses either.  It scares me every time that the opposing team gets a corner.  Also, can we please get Graham Zusi OFF of the corner kicks.  He has taken like six in three games and struck the ball long or wide every single time.  It is a simple skill to place a corner in the box.  Other than these things the USA is holding their own and should have no question won the "group of death" which nobody expected them to be able to do at all.
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Posted: 6/27/2014 5:57 PM

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One more addition....no excuse to have the top US international and world cup goal scorer of all time sitting healthy doing play by play on television when Jozy Altidore is hurt and our young guys don't play.  Shame on Klingsman for letting personality clashes keep the most experienced guy off the team.  Donovan, Dempsey, Altidore, Bradley up front......come on they are already tough and that team could have been a force.
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