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Some are surprised at our hoops program??!

Posted: 12/22/2012 10:19 AM

Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


One question...WHY???

I do NOT see Clemson getting back to a middle of the road team under Brownell and sure as hell won't get anywhere near the upper half/quarter.

Clemson went from being one of those teams that was last in the country to LOSE a game to reverting back to the days of where we lose to teams from our own friggin state!!!

Kool aid drinkers keep on drinking...
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Posted: 12/22/2012 11:45 AM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


Well, you are mistaken but thanks for stopping by.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 11:48 AM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


Ok. You're basing this on what exactly?

Talent?
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Posted: 12/22/2012 1:45 PM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


The fact that we have the best X's and O's coach to ever step foot onto this University in basketball. You're a moron, and you're not fooling anyone.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 5:26 PM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


I agree with Clinton73, BB doesn't recruit top flight players and if you don't recruit them you can't ask them to sign.

Eleven of the 13 players are BB recruits, and we have no one who can shoot the ball beyond 15 feet, no scoring threat.

Maybe the kid from Georgia, Blossingame can get it done who knows. But they seem to be putting the future into more of these private schools kids from South Carolina. We see where that has gotten us.

I think Clemson to get recruits in here will have to go North and bring in a coach from Penn. or NY area with some coaching experience and recruiting experence from that area. Kids who know how to compete and play street ball, kids who can actually shoot and have played in competive leagues.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 5:50 PM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


lol
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Posted: 12/22/2012 6:35 PM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 




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--- Hitsomebody2004 wrote:

lol

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Haha I know! This thread gave me a good laugh.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 7:56 PM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


Yeah GREAT point!!! Because Clemson has been a national powerhouse for soooooo long in basketball! If I'm a moron you're a breath away from being in a coma!

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--- cletiger10 wrote:

The fact that we have the best X's and O's coach to ever step foot onto this University in basketball. You're a moron, and you're not fooling anyone.

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Posted: 12/22/2012 8:04 PM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


PROVE IT WRONG!!!

I've gone through the list of our most recent classes too many times to list and the number of players who had offers from just ACC programs is SMALL. These same players were offered by Brownell and similar schools at his former gig. Is he going to win in the ACC with the majority of his players being "mid-major" level players?!! He's beating NOBODY in the ACC for signees FOR THE MOST PART. That's the lower level of the ACC.

So, laugh all you like. Act as if Brownell is the next coming of Coach K if you want. I'll be here to gladly so I told you so, well over a year ago that this was a major mistake of a hire!!

Notice while the resident "geniuses" offered up insults and laughs NOT ONCE could they disprove what I said!! It was another thread, but this has all the makings of Larry Shyatt part 2. MAYBE if we move to the MAC in hoops we'll be competitive. Maybe...
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Posted: 12/22/2012 8:19 PM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


^
In two months baseball starts and you can take your 'bah, humbug-ness' to that forum, too.

You do realize, the thoroughly enlightened chap that you are, that fully 20% of the minutes to be manned this year fell to injuries and, thus, red-shirt status. Do that to any program and the results won't be so pretty. Couple that with an abundance of youth, it's compounded. Of course, I lack the 'genius' to go toe to toe with you, so I'll slink back to my little corner of the world. At least people smile there...and look forward to the coming day.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 10:17 PM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 




---------------------------------------------
--- clinton73 wrote:

Yeah GREAT point!!! Because Clemson has been a national powerhouse for soooooo long in basketball! If I'm a moron you're a breath away from being in a coma!

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--- cletiger10 wrote:

The fact that we have the best X's and O's coach to ever step foot onto this University in basketball. You're a moron, and you're not fooling anyone.

---------------------------------------------

At the top of this thread you're praising Oliver Purnell's teams like he's the god of basketball or something. Newsflash, Brad Brownell is 10x the coach Oliver Purnell will EVER be. Like I said, you're a moron who's fooling no one. Go away, you're making our basketball board look bad.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 10:19 PM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


---------------------------------------------
--- Clemsonman wrote:


Eleven of the 13 players are BB recruits, and we have no one who can shoot the ball beyond 15 feet, no scoring threat.

Maybe the kid from Georgia, Blossingame can get it done who knows. But they seem to be putting the future into more of these private schools kids from South Carolina. We see where that has gotten us.

I think Clemson to get recruits in here will have to go North and bring in a coach from Penn. or NY area with some coaching experience and recruiting experence from that area. Kids who know how to compete and play street ball, kids who can actually shoot and have played in competive leagues.

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Good point.

BTW, 11 of the 13 players that are Brownell's are true freshman or soph's.

The 2 that's not his players are certifiable head cases, but yet they comprise our "senior leadership."

There's not a single junior in the program. Wonder how many teams we've lost to can boast that?

Street ball is straight crap and doesn't win at this level.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 11:51 PM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 



---------------------------------------------
--- OrangeBandit wrote:

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--- Clemsonman wrote:


Eleven of the 13 players are BB recruits, and we have no one who can shoot the ball beyond 15 feet, no scoring threat.

Maybe the kid from Georgia, Blossingame can get it done who knows. But they seem to be putting the future into more of these private schools kids from South Carolina. We see where that has gotten us.

I think Clemson to get recruits in here will have to go North and bring in a coach from Penn. or NY area with some coaching experience and recruiting experence from that area. Kids who know how to compete and play street ball, kids who can actually shoot and have played in competive leagues.

---------------------------------------------

Good point.

BTW, 11 of the 13 players that are Brownell's are true freshman or soph's.

The 2 that's not his players are certifiable head cases, but yet they comprise our "senior leadership."

There's not a single junior in the program. Wonder how many teams we've lost to can boast that?

Street ball is straight crap and doesn't win at this level.

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well we can't seem to win very much at this level with the talent on this team.

I know our two seniors aren't anything to write about, but if not for Booker this year, I would guess this team would have another 3 losses. Jennings should have been kicked out of the program long ago and then we go and recruit more of his type, private school kids.

street ball isn't the kind of ball I would expect to play, I'm referring more to the type of Tough Kid, Tough Basketball kid, we need. You get players from that area they know basketball,, it's a street ball knowledge,,,, they know how to score, how to create, how to compete,, how to win

and Clinton is right, no one has disputed what he's said,,, Clinton is right,, this talent that BB has recruited can't win in the ACC or would not win the SoCon.

If BB wants to win he's got to get off his ass, get some confidence in what he's selling and go after some top rated at least some 3*s and maybe a 4* and 5* player or two. ONce you get one in, then you get another and then you get another.. Slow process but he's isn't doing any of that for now.

Last edited 12/22/2012 11:53 PM by Clemsonman

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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:18 AM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 




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--- Clemsonman wrote:


and Clinton is right, no one has disputed what he's said,,, Clinton is right,, this talent that BB has recruited can't win in the ACC or would not win the SoCon.

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Fine... no one has disputed it. I'm going to dispute it. Please pay attention b/c I'm only going to waste my time once no matter what really stupid retort you have.

When you coach at a perennial doormat like Clemson, you just simply aren't going to sign many elite-level talents unless you cheat. For most of his tenure, Oliver Purnell followed the same track, recruiting wise, as Brownell... finding underrated kids who might develop into something. If you look at Purnell's classes and who panned out, James Mays and Cliff Hammonds didn't have big-time offers, KC Rivers had his good offers pulled after he was injured as a senior in HS, Booker had no offers besides Clemson and SC.

Those were not highly rated kids. In fact, Purnell's one 'successful' dabble with highly rated kids landed us Devin Booker (who was a legacy player since his bro played here), Milton Jennings and Noel Johnson. Anyone want more of that? By the way, I think Bobo was a 4-star in some services so there is another recruiting success story.

Now, if we look at Brownell's classes, we see that for the most part, he is also signing mere 3-star players, like OP did for his best players, and trying to develop them. Frankly his best rated signee is Sullivan who did have other legit offers and has done nothing at Clemson. In this class, Filer had some good offers and Nnoko had some good offers and Blossomgame we got committed before the big boys could come after him. But I agree, Brownell has not signed elite talents b/c he just can't get them to come to Clemson. So is he failing?

NO! He is signing guys with potential who fit his system (Same strategy as Purnell). So why isn't he having the same results? Well, b/c you guys are evaluating him on 2+ years but evaluating Purnell on 7 years. In other words, Purnell had time for his developmental projects to develop while Brownell is being judged based on a bunch of freshmen and sophomores.

It's just so simple I can't believe we are even having this discussion. YOU DON'T WIN IN COLLEGE SPORTS WHEN 85% OF YOUR TEAM IS FRESHMEN AND SOPHOMORES. I thought every last person in the world knew this.

I've said before and I'll say it again. It is perfectly all right to be pissed off that we lost to Coastal. I'm with you, felt the same way. But to absurdly take that and extend it to "Brownell is doing a crappy job" does nothing to help our situation.

So as a quick summary, Clinton is right that the talent Brownell has recruited can't win AT A HIGH LEVEL in the ACC AS FRESHMEN AND SOPHOMORES (My corrections of his overly simplistic point are capitalized to make it easy for you guys to follow). On the other hand, Clinton is ULTIMATELY WRONG b/c AS JUNIORS AND SENIORS these guys will win at a high level in the ACC.

Now please don't say no one has disputed his points.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 9:36 AM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 



ccolon wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- Clemsonman wrote:


and Clinton is right, no one has disputed what he's said,,, Clinton is right,, this talent that BB has recruited can't win in the ACC or would not win the SoCon.

---------------------------------------------

Fine... no one has disputed it. I'm going to dispute it. Please pay attention b/c I'm only going to waste my time once no matter what really stupid retort you have.

When you coach at a perennial doormat like Clemson, you just simply aren't going to sign many elite-level talents unless you cheat. For most of his tenure, Oliver Purnell followed the same track, recruiting wise, as Brownell... finding underrated kids who might develop into something. If you look at Purnell's classes and who panned out, James Mays and Cliff Hammonds didn't have big-time offers, KC Rivers had his good offers pulled after he was injured as a senior in HS, Booker had no offers besides Clemson and SC.

Those were not highly rated kids. In fact, Purnell's one 'successful' dabble with highly rated kids landed us Devin Booker (who was a legacy player since his bro played here), Milton Jennings and Noel Johnson. Anyone want more of that? By the way, I think Bobo was a 4-star in some services so there is another recruiting success story.

Now, if we look at Brownell's classes, we see that for the most part, he is also signing mere 3-star players, like OP did for his best players, and trying to develop them. Frankly his best rated signee is Sullivan who did have other legit offers and has done nothing at Clemson. In this class, Filer had some good offers and Nnoko had some good offers and Blossomgame we got committed before the big boys could come after him. But I agree, Brownell has not signed elite talents b/c he just can't get them to come to Clemson. So is he failing?

NO! He is signing guys with potential who fit his system (Same strategy as Purnell). So why isn't he having the same results? Well, b/c you guys are evaluating him on 2+ years but evaluating Purnell on 7 years. In other words, Purnell had time for his developmental projects to develop while Brownell is being judged based on a bunch of freshmen and sophomores.

It's just so simple I can't believe we are even having this discussion. YOU DON'T WIN IN COLLEGE SPORTS WHEN 85% OF YOUR TEAM IS FRESHMEN AND SOPHOMORES. I thought every last person in the world knew this.

I've said before and I'll say it again. It is perfectly all right to be pissed off that we lost to Coastal. I'm with you, felt the same way. But to absurdly take that and extend it to "Brownell is doing a crappy job" does nothing to help our situation.

So as a quick summary, Clinton is right that the talent Brownell has recruited can't win AT A HIGH LEVEL in the ACC AS FRESHMEN AND SOPHOMORES (My corrections of his overly simplistic point are capitalized to make it easy for you guys to follow). On the other hand, Clinton is ULTIMATELY WRONG b/c AS JUNIORS AND SENIORS these guys will win at a high level in the ACC.

Now please don't say no one has disputed his points.

Well said.  Exactly right except under Purnell & Brownell Clemson elevated beyond doormat status.  I can assure you Brownell will win here.  He's had very poor luck so far.  I'm surprised the discussion is even happening with no juniors and two seniors who are not inclined to lead or be consistent.  I hate to say "next year" as much as anyone else but Clemson has a great coach that will win some amazing games, next year.

Last edited 12/23/2012 9:38 AM by t8207

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Posted: 12/23/2012 10:05 AM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


If anything, I feel like Purnell's tenure here came to a plateau, maybe even a bit of a decline, when he went away from the strategy he had and Brownell is executing now, that being chasing after underrated kids who fit his style of play. Then around year 4 he got to where he wanted to elevate the talent level and started chasing star rankings and we ended up with Oglesby, Tanner, Bobo, Milton, Devin, & Noel. Not bashing any of those players, but they certainly didn't fit his system (other than Devin).
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Posted: 12/23/2012 10:57 AM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 




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--- Hitsomebody2004 wrote:

If anything, I feel like Purnell's tenure here came to a plateau, maybe even a bit of a decline, when he went away from the strategy he had and Brownell is executing now, that being chasing after underrated kids who fit his style of play. Then around year 4 he got to where he wanted to elevate the talent level and started chasing star rankings and we ended up with Oglesby, Tanner, Bobo, Milton, Devin, & Noel. Not bashing any of those players, but they certainly didn't fit his system (other than Devin).

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I think this is absolutely right. He started going for kids who had more 'skill' but weren't as good athletically and didn't fit his system as well as his earlier classes. I just don't think that with Tanner, Andre, Narcisse, Booker and Jennings as the core of this program last year that Purnell would have done any better than Brownell. Purnell wasn't doing anything in the recruiting class before he left.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 11:09 AM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


Agreed. The only player he had lined up before he left was Marcus Thornton, who has accomplished absolutely nothing in his 3 years at Georgia.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 2:42 PM

Re: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


Yeah, I didnt weigh in before because this has been discussed previously and frankly I felt that the op was trolling and didnt warrant response. Brownells first class he was actually able to recruit for a full cycle was this past one with Nnoko, Filer, et all. Purnell left at an awful time recruiting wise. We only had Thornton and he left and the early signing period for the next year was only 7 months away, hardly enough time to develop any relationships with kids.

Our team is comprised of FR and SO and we have Rooks and Ajukwa signed, and from all indications Rooks can shoot the ball. We have been super competitive against Arizona and Gonzaga this year and we dropped two games we shouldnt have. To say we are back at Shyatt is ignorant and laughable. Shyatts crew were no where near as athletic as this bunch and I feel that Brownell has the ability to win games based on his coaching...I never felt that Shyatt would help to win a game.

CBB actually won a tournament game, then turned around in a competitve disadvantage and gave WV everything they could handle till we flat ran out of gas. OPs teams were so gassed by the end of the regular season that winning a NCAAT game was not a real possibility.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 5:43 PM

RE: Some are surprised at our hoops program??! 


SO what will the excuses be when BB and Clemson are still sitting middle of the pack or lower in two years and if they are losing to the Costals and midlevel teams.

no one has to explaine anything to us who see this team for what it is, untalented,, maybe some of you need to have these things pointed out to you so when these same results continue in two years your feelling won't get hurt when we say we told you so.

but of course no one then will admit to being a BB supporter and saying things like what some have posted in this thread.

I'll put up my dollar against anyone else's dollar to see who's right in two years.

and dont tell us you can't recruit to Clemson or win at Clemson. Ellis proved that wrong. He won the ACC reg. season title. He went to the Elite 8, and he brought in men who played for years in the NBA

I hope I'm the one wrong here. I would love to see BB win, win big, get some talent in here, and stay at Clemson for 30 years. But right now he's not getting the job done.

Look at the recriting thread. Most of those kids have no ranking, and the one's that are listed as some we need to get,,, when you hit the teams recruiting them, Clemson isn't listed under most of their names.

so how does BB get them if he's not recruiting them, and if Clemson isn't recruiting them why are they on the list.

Last edited 12/23/2012 5:46 PM by Clemsonman

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