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Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G

Posted: 7/14/2014 10:55 AM

Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


I researched OSU history on this website - http://www.collegefootball.bz/ohio-state and thought it was interesting concerning the number of games played vs. every other school in the B1G.  Even though OSU and 8 of the other schools have been in the conference together for over a century now, there are huge discrepancies in terms of numbers of games played vs. each other school in the conference.  I guess the conference never truly had a "balanced" schedule.  Michigan State will soon pass Minnesota on this list, despite the fact that MSU didn't join the B1G until the 1950s and OSU only played MSU one time before the 1950s, and only 5 times before 1965.  On the flip side, OSU only played Minnesota 10 times before 1965, even though they were both in the conference since OSU joined in 1912.     

1.  Michigan - 110 games played (46-58-6)
2.  Illinois - 100 games played (66-30-4)
3.  Indiana - 87 games played (70-12-5)
4.  Wisconsin - 79 games played (56-18-5)
5.  Northwestern - 75 games played (60-14-1)
6.  Iowa - 64 games played (47-14-3)
7.  Purdue - 56 games played (40-14-2)
8.  Minnesota - 50 games played (43-7)
9.  Michigan State - 42 games played (28-14)
10.  Penn State - 29 games played (16-13)
11.  Nebraska - 4 games played (3-1)
12.  Maryland - 0 games played (0-0)
13.  Rutgers - 0 games played (0-0)  

If the East-West schedule as it currently exists lasts for 20 years, Michigan will have a clear lead as the #1 all-time opponent played.  Indiana will pass Illinois for the #2 spot sometime around that time most likely since that is a guaranteed annual game now while Illinois is not. 

Of the top 8 teams on this list, only #1 Michigan and #3 Indiana are guaranteed annual games going forward.  #9 Michigan State and #10 Penn State are guaranteed annual games, as are Maryland and Rutgers, neither of which OSU has ever played before this season.


If you add in Chicago to the B1G stats........14 games played (10-2-2)


Random trivia.......

Ohio State has played Oberlin 26 times, the last game played taking place in 1922 and the overall record for the Buckeyes is 13-10-3. Oberlin has three more wins against Ohio State than Minnesota. Indiana only has 2 more wins over Ohio State than Oberlin. Michigan State, Iowa, Northwestern and Purdue only have 4 more wins over Ohio State than Oberlin. Penn State only has 3 more wins over OSU than Oberlin. Wisconsin only has 8 more wins over OSU than Oberlin.



Last edited 7/14/2014 10:57 AM by B1GOSU

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Posted: 7/14/2014 10:58 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


OSU really has never had a non-conference rival. There are very few teams OSU has played more than one home and home series with outside of the conference.

Here is Ohio State's non-conference most games played vs. the Power Five.......

1. Pittsburgh 25 games played (19-5-1)
2. Southern Cal 23 games played (9-13-1)
3. Missouri 12 games played (10-1-1)
4. Washington 11 games played (8-3)
5. UCLA 9 games played (4-4-1)
6T. California 8 games played (7-1)
6T. Washington State 8 games played (8-0)
6T. Oregon 8 games played (8-0)
9T. West Virginia 6 games played (5-1)
9T. Syracuse 6 games played (4-2)
9T. TCU 6 games played (4-1-1)
12T. Notre Dame 5 games played (3-2)
12T. Stanford 5 games played (2-3)
12T. Colorado 5 games played (4-1)
12T. Miami 5 games played (3-2)
16T. Vanderbilt 4 games played (3-1)
16T. Duke 4 games played (3-1)
16T. North Carolina 4 games played (3-1)
16T. Texas A&M 4 games played (4-0)
16T. Arizona 4 games played (3-1)




Other former notable teams not in the Power 5 -

Cincinnati - 15 games played (13-2)
Southern Methodist - 9 games played (7-1-1)
Navy - 4 games played (4-0)
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Posted: 7/14/2014 10:59 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


Michigan's lead in the series vs. Ohio State is somewhat deceiving. They only lead if you count games prior to 1919. For many prior to 1912, OSU's schedule was Michigan plus what today is Ohio Division III football. Ohio State did not play at a level above today's Division III football until 1912. That is the difference. In the first 15 games of the series, Ohio State did not win any games and lost 13, while having 2 ties. If you only count B1G conference games, the series is tied 46-46-4.


A sample schedule for Ohio State when playing Michigan during most of those 15 years (especially prior to 1912)......

1909 Season - 7-3 record. Other than Michigan and Vanderbilt, the schedule was the equivalent to today's Division III Ohio teams, two of which also defeated OSU.

Otterbein W
Wittenberg W
Wooster W
Michigan L
Denison W
Ohio Wesleyan W
Case L
Vanderbilt W
Oberlin L
Kenyon W

OSU and Michigan were not conference rivals until 1917. They are actually tied at 46-46-4 since becoming conference rivals, as they did not play in 1917 and Michigan won in 1918 and the teams have played every year since then. While OSU joined the B1G in 1912, Michigan had left the conference in 1907 and did not rejoin until 1917.
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Posted: 7/14/2014 11:03 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote: Michigan's lead in the series vs. Ohio State is somewhat deceiving. They only lead if you count games prior to 1919. For many prior to 1912, OSU's schedule was Michigan plus what today is Ohio Division III football. Ohio State did not play at a level above today's Division III football until 1912. That is the difference. In the first 15 games of the series, Ohio State did not win any games and lost 13, while having 2 ties. If you only count B1G conference games, the series is tied 46-46-4.


A sample schedule for Ohio State when playing Michigan during most of those 15 years (especially prior to 1912)......

1909 Season - 7-3 record. Other than Michigan and Vanderbilt, the schedule was the equivalent to today's Division III Ohio teams, two of which also defeated OSU.

Otterbein W
Wittenberg W
Wooster W
Michigan L
Denison W
Ohio Wesleyan W
Case L
Vanderbilt W
Oberlin L
Kenyon W

OSU and Michigan were not conference rivals until 1917. They are actually tied at 46-46-4 since becoming conference rivals, as they did not play in 1917 and Michigan won in 1918 and the teams have played every year since then. While OSU joined the B1G in 1912, Michigan had left the conference in 1907 and did not rejoin until 1917.

Sensitive subject brining up record vs. School X, while School X was still just a small state school playing other said small state schools.

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Posted: 7/14/2014 11:26 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


Michigan was a founding member of the B1G in 1896. Prior to joining the B1G in 1912, Ohio State played in the Ohio Athletic Conference which still exists today as a Division III conference.

The fact that Michigan helped establish the premiere athletic conference in the country at the time Ohio State was playing in the equivalent to today's Division III conference leads me to believe that OSU simply was not playing the same level of football that a Michigan would play until joining the B1G in 1912. Ohio State - Oberlin was a 50/50 outcome game more or less back in those days at 13-10-3 in the 26 years the teams played each other.

Last edited 7/14/2014 11:26 AM by B1GOSU

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Posted: 7/14/2014 11:48 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote: Michigan was a founding member of the B1G in 1896. Prior to joining the B1G in 1912, Ohio State played in the Ohio Athletic Conference which still exists today as a Division III conference.

The fact that Michigan helped establish the premiere athletic conference in the country at the time Ohio State was playing in the equivalent to today's Division III conference leads me to believe that OSU simply was not playing the same level of football that a Michigan would play until joining the B1G in 1912. Ohio State - Oberlin was a 50/50 outcome game more or less back in those days at 13-10-3 in the 26 years the teams played each other.
I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just saying it's a touchy subject with some.

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Posted: 7/14/2014 12:57 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote: OSU really has never had a non-conference rival. There are very few teams OSU has played more than one home and home series with outside of the conference.

Here is Ohio State's non-conference most games played vs. the Power Five.......
Can you post this in order of # played for all tOSU opponents?  

I usually use Stassen for research like this, but it doesn't work because it doesn't count games when the team in question was not 1a (or when the team is retroactively not considered to be 1a equivalent).  

IE, on Stassen if you look up:
  • "Ohio State vs. Illinois" you get 99 games and a record of 66-30-3 in favor of tOSU, but if you look up
  • "Illinois vs Ohio State" you get 100 games and a record of 66-30-4 in favor of tOSU.  Similarly, if you look up
  • "Ohio State vs. Michigan" you get 97 games and a record of 47-46-4 in favor of Michigan, but if you look up 
  • "Michigan vs. Ohio State" you get 110 games and a record of 58-46-6 in favor of Michigan.  
This is because tOSU went 0-11-2 against Michigan and 0-0-1 against Illinois in 1897, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903, 1905, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1909, 1910, 1911, and 1912 and Ohio State is considered "non-IA) for those years.  

That makes Stassen worthless if you want to know, for example, how many times tOSU played Oberlin or Case or any of the other Ohio Athletic Conference opponents.  

I have most of this information in Jack Park's encyclopedia, but I don't have it in one list.  
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Posted: 7/14/2014 2:18 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


Everything I posted was directly from the link in the first post. Just click an opponent in any year and it will give you the overall record vs. that opponent.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 10:33 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote:
I researched OSU history on this website - http://www.collegefootball.bz/ohio-state and thought it was interesting concerning the number of games played vs. every other school in the B1G.  Even though OSU and 8 of the other schools have been in the conference together for over a century now, there are huge discrepancies in terms of numbers of games played vs. each other school in the conference.  I guess the conference never truly had a "balanced" schedule.  Michigan State will soon pass Minnesota on this list, despite the fact that MSU didn't join the B1G until the 1950s and OSU only played MSU one time before the 1950s, and only 5 times before 1965.  On the flip side, OSU only played Minnesota 10 times before 1965, even though they were both in the conference since OSU joined in 1912.     
I'm pretty sure in the early days of the conference that each team handled their own scheduling.  I don't know exactly when the conference established uniform scheduling rules.  

In the early days of the conference the number of games played was often a factor in the conference championship.  For example:
  • In 1900 Minnesota won the conference with a record of 3-0-1 while Iowa finished second with a record of 2-0-1.  
  • Minnesota tied Chicago (2-3-1) and beat Wisconsin (2-1), Illinois (0-3), and Northwestern (2-2).  All four of Minnesota's conference games were at home.  They did not play Iowa (2-0-1), Michigan (3-2), Indiana (1-2-1), Illinois (1-3-2), or Purdue (0-4).  
  • Iowa tied Northwestern (2-2) on the road, beat Chicago (2-3-1) on the road, and beat Michigan (3-2) in Detroit.  They did not play Minnesota (3-0-1), Wisconsin (2-1), Indiana (1-2-1), Illinois (1-3-2), or Purdue (0-4).  
They didn't play each other, played an unequal number of games, and their only common opponents were Chicago and Northwestern.  

In 1900 here are the number of conference games played by each team:
  • 3:  Iowa, Wisconsin
  • 4:  Minnesota, Indiana, Purdue
  • 5:  Northwestern, Michigan
  • 6:  Chicago, Illinois
In 1910:
  • 2:  Minnesota, Iowa
  • 3:  n/a
  • 4:  Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Purdue
  • 5:  n/a
  • 6:  Chicago
In 1920:
  • 4:  Indiana, Michigan, Purdue
  • 5:  Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern
  • 6:  Illinois, Chicago, Minnesota
In 1930:
  • 1:  Iowa
  • 2:  n/a
  • 3:  n.a
  • 4:  Minnesota, Indiana, Chicago
  • 5:  Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Illinois
  • 6:  Purdue
In 1940:
  • 4:  Michigan
  • 5:  Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois
  • 6:  Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Ohio State
In 1950:
  • 5:  Indiana, Purdue
  • 6:  Michigan, Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota
  • 7:  Ohio State, Wisconsin
In 1960:
  • 0:  Indiana (not sure why)
  • 5:  Michigan State
  • 6:  Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Northwestern, Purdue
  • 7:  Ohio State, Wisconsin
1970:
  • 7:  All ten teams
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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:09 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


Medina, where did you get the information from? I did a quick search for Indiana 1960 and show that they played seven conference games that year and went 0-7 in conference play.......

www.collegefootball.bz/indiana
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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:46 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


I'm assuming some sort of penalty, and a discrepancy in how those games were treated.

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Posted: 7/15/2014 3:06 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote: Medina, where did you get the information from? I did a quick search for Indiana 1960 and show that they played seven conference games that year and went 0-7 in conference play.......

www.collegefootball.bz/indiana
EastLansingAdam wrote: I'm assuming some sort of penalty, and a discrepancy in how those games were treated.
I think ELA is right.  I pulled my figures from the B1G site, 2013 Football Media Guide, All-Time Conference Standings (starting on pg 99).  For 1960 Indiana (pg 102) they show "- - - -" for what should be W L T %.  

Per your link, they lost to Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Michigan, and Purdue while not playing Iowa and Wisconsin.  

Even if the B1G site left off games involving Indiana that year, that still wouldn't create uniform schedules.  Instead adding back the IU games (assuming they were left off) would yield:
In 1960:
  • 6:  Michigan State, Iowa
  • 7:  Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Northwestern, Purdue, Wisconsin
  • 8:  Ohio State
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Posted: 7/15/2014 4:24 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote:OSU only played Minnesota 10 times before 1965, even though they were both in the conference since OSU joined in 1912.      

1.  Michigan - 110 games played (46-58-6)
2.  Illinois - 100 games played (66-30-4)
3.  Indiana - 87 games played (70-12-5)
4.  Wisconsin - 79 games played (56-18-5)
5.  Northwestern - 75 games played (60-14-1)
6.  Iowa - 64 games played (47-14-3)
7.  Purdue - 56 games played (40-14-2)
8.  Minnesota - 50 games played (43-7)
9.  Michigan State - 42 games played (28-14)
10.  Penn State - 29 games played (16-13)
11.  Nebraska - 4 games played (3-1)
12.  Maryland - 0 games played (0-0)
13.  Rutgers - 0 games played (0-0)  
The dearth of games between tOSU and Minnesota makes some sense.  For most of the B1G's history (1913-1992) Ohio State was the Southeastern-most team and Minnesota was the Northwestern-most team.  

That also explains the relative lack of games between tOSU and Iowa based on the fact that for that same time Iowa was the second western-most team and tOSU was the eastern-most team.  

The matchup that stands out to me is Purdue.  Purdue was one of the closest teams to tOSU for that same 1913-1992 timeframe.  Why then did Purdue and Ohio State only play sporadically prior to 1975.  

From 1913 (Ohio State's first year in the conference) through 1974 (62 years) Ohio State and Purdue only played 25 times.    

Ohio State and Purdue did not play:
  • 1913-1918 Ohio State's first six years in conference
  • 1922
  • 1925-1936
  • 1939
  • 1944
  • 1948-1951
  • 1955-56
  • 1961-1966
  • 1971-1974
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Last edited 7/16/2014 9:08 AM by medinabuckeye1

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Posted: 7/15/2014 8:40 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



medinabuckeye1 wrote:
B1GOSU wrote: OSU really has never had a non-conference rival. There are very few teams OSU has played more than one home and home series with outside of the conference.

Here is Ohio State's non-conference most games played vs. the Power Five.......
Can you post this in order of # played for all tOSU opponents?  

I usually use Stassen for research like this, but it doesn't work because it doesn't count games when the team in question was not 1a (or when the team is retroactively not considered to be 1a equivalent).  

IE, on Stassen if you look up:
  • "Ohio State vs. Illinois" you get 99 games and a record of 66-30-3 in favor of tOSU, but if you look up
  • "Illinois vs Ohio State" you get 100 games and a record of 66-30-4 in favor of tOSU.  Similarly, if you look up
  • "Ohio State vs. Michigan" you get 97 games and a record of 47-46-4 in favor of Michigan, but if you look up 
  • "Michigan vs. Ohio State" you get 110 games and a record of 58-46-6 in favor of Michigan.  
This is because tOSU went 0-11-2 against Michigan and 0-0-1 against Illinois in 1897, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903, 1905, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1909, 1910, 1911, and 1912 and Ohio State is considered "non-IA) for those years.  

That makes Stassen worthless if you want to know, for example, how many times tOSU played Oberlin or Case or any of the other Ohio Athletic Conference opponents.  

I have most of this information in Jack Park's encyclopedia, but I don't have it in one list.  


Stassen's site has always been a waste of bandwidth.

Ohio State's opponents by number of times played:

http://www.cfbtrivia.com/cfbt_...op=1&cres=1
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Posted: 7/15/2014 8:41 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote: Medina, where did you get the information from? I did a quick search for Indiana 1960 and show that they played seven conference games that year and went 0-7 in conference play.......

www.collegefootball.bz/indiana

That's wrong.  Indiana was on probation in 1960 and went 0-0 in conference, as all their games were deemed non-conference.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 8:47 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


It might be better for what you're doing to just look at "conference" games between teams played.

http://www.cfbtrivia.com/cfbt_...op=1&cres=1


1. Illinois 98-(66-29-3)--0.68878[1] (22.36-12.80) (429-407-31)--0.51269
2. Michigan 96-(46-46-4)--0.50000[2] (15.74-15.91) (647-224-20)--0.73737
3. Indiana 81-(69-8-4)--0.87654[3] (26.86-10.36) (287-411-25)--0.41425
4. Wisconsin 79-(56-18-5)--0.74051[4] (22.35-12.76) (398-310-27)--0.55986
5. Northwestern 75-(60-14-1)--0.80667 (27.96-9.57) (262-380-14)--0.41006
6. Iowa 64-(47-14-3)--0.75781[5] (26.20-13.95) (315-268-17)--0.53917
7. Purdue 56-(40-14-2)--0.73214[6] (24.82-13.21) (246-257-19)--0.48946
8. Minnesota 50-(43-7-0)--0.86000[7] (30.74-12.74) (229-248-11)--0.48053
9. Michigan St. 39-(28-11-0)--0.71795 (25.33-15.15) (221-171-8)--0.56250
10. Penn St. 21-(14-7-0)--0.66667[8] (26.24-17.48) (171-67-0)--0.71849
11. Chicago 14-(10-2-2)--0.78571 (21.57-5.00) (46-43-5)--0.51596
12. Nebraska 2-(1-1-0)--0.50000 (45.00-36.00) (18-7-0)--0.72000


Scheduling was no uniformed in the earlier days.  Conference champions weren't always determined the way they are now.  If anybody can explain this article, I'd appreciate it.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 7:32 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



ftbobs wrote: If anybody can explain this article, I'd appreciate it.

I think the ratings system in the article is like a strength of schedule system.  It said that while Illinois would have been champions on a % basis, Iowa was awarded the championship because they played and beat top teams in the conference, while Illinois played and beat teams in the conference that didn't win many conference games.  Since you only played a handful of conference games back in those days, I guess that makes the most sense.  If several teams go 3-0 in conference play, do you really want to have several co-champions?  What's neat about that ranking system is that even though you know you have a strong team going into the season, the winner of the conference is a virtual wild card because there is no way to predict where the teams you beat will finish in the conference standings. Since so few conference games were played, one loss really could make or break not only your season, but the season for someone who beat you, as it could cost them a championship. 

The national rankings with USC as the champ I think is pretty much the same thing, only you are comparing every school in the country instead of just within a conference.  All the teams that won the most games are compared to each other, and whoever had the highest strength of schedule was crowned national champion.  I'm assuming the 11 schools listed finished with identical records - the best in the nation - and the final rankings that list them in order are based on strength of schedule.   

That's how I interpret those articles.

Last edited 7/16/2014 7:34 AM by B1GOSU

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Posted: 7/16/2014 8:18 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote: Michigan was a founding member of the B1G in 1896. Prior to joining the B1G in 1912, Ohio State played in the Ohio Athletic Conference which still exists today as a Division III conference.

The fact that Michigan helped establish the premiere athletic conference in the country at the time Ohio State was playing in the equivalent to today's Division III conference leads me to believe that OSU simply was not playing the same level of football that a Michigan would play until joining the B1G in 1912. Ohio State - Oberlin was a 50/50 outcome game more or less back in those days at 13-10-3 in the 26 years the teams played each other.
I doubt that it made much difference then.  There wasn't much in the way of recruiting then,  players mostly were selected from the student body.  The only real advantage would be if Michigan had a significantly larger student population from which to select potential players.

____________________________________________

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Posted: 7/16/2014 8:51 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 





---------------------------------------------
--- Geolion91 wrote:


B1GOSU wrote: Michigan was a founding member of the B1G in 1896. Prior to joining the B1G in 1912, Ohio State played in the Ohio Athletic Conference which still exists today as a Division III conference.

The fact that Michigan helped establish the premiere athletic conference in the country at the time Ohio State was playing in the equivalent to today's Division III conference leads me to believe that OSU simply was not playing the same level of football that a Michigan would play until joining the B1G in 1912. Ohio State - Oberlin was a 50/50 outcome game more or less back in those days at 13-10-3 in the 26 years the teams played each other.
I doubt that it made much difference then.  There wasn't much in the way of recruiting then,  players mostly were selected from the student body.  The only real advantage would be if Michigan had a significantly larger student population from which to select potential players.

---------------------------------------------

well and being allowed to bring in non-student ringers, as UM did, and left the conference so that they could continue to do.

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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:21 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



ftbobs wrote:

Stassen's site has always been a waste of bandwidth.

Ohio State's opponents by number of times played:

http://www.cfbtrivia.com/cfbt_...op=1&cres=1
Thanks.  This is exactly what I was looking for.  I'm going to have to spend some time on this site and get used to it.  I started using stassen a long time ago and I usually go there because I am familiar with it.  It generally works fine for anything post WWII.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:31 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



Geolion91 wrote:
I doubt that it made much difference then.  There wasn't much in the way of recruiting then,  players mostly were selected from the student body.  The only real advantage would be if Michigan had a significantly larger student population from which to select potential players.
I'm not sure exactly when recruiting started, but I know that it was going on by at least the mid 1910's.  I read an article about Chic Harley once and the article stated that it was widely assumed that he would go to Michigan.  

In High School he as an excellent player and Michigan was the only 'major' football program in the midwest.  He was recruited to Ohio State (went to HS in Columbus) and he really helped launch Ohio State into bigtime football.  

It really is hard to overstate Harley's impact on Ohio State.  Prior to his arrival, tOSU had been in the conference for three years as an also-ran and had an all-time record of 0-alot against Michigan.  In Harley's three years at Ohio State (1916, 1917, 1919 interrupted by WWI) tOSU won two conference championships and collected the schools first win over Michigan.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:48 AM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


ftbobs' link was what I wanted.  

Most frequent out-of-state tOSU opponents that have never been conference-mates:
  1. #13 Pitt, 25 games, 19-5-1
  2. #15 USC, 23 games, 9-13-1
  3. #22 Mizzou, 12 games, 10-1-1
  4. #24 Washington, 11 games, 8-3
All others are less than 10 games.  

As far as conference expansion, this might argue in favor of Pitt and Mizzou from tOSU's perspective, but our history even with those schools is so minimal as to not really be relevant.  

I'm lost on the site though, how do I recreate that, and create it for other teams?
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Posted: 7/16/2014 1:59 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote:
ftbobs wrote: If anybody can explain this article, I'd appreciate it.

I think the ratings system in the article is like a strength of schedule system.  It said that while Illinois would have been champions on a % basis, Iowa was awarded the championship because they played and beat top teams in the conference, while Illinois played and beat teams in the conference that didn't win many conference games.  Since you only played a handful of conference games back in those days, I guess that makes the most sense.  If several teams go 3-0 in conference play, do you really want to have several co-champions?  What's neat about that ranking system is that even though you know you have a strong team going into the season, the winner of the conference is a virtual wild card because there is no way to predict where the teams you beat will finish in the conference standings. Since so few conference games were played, one loss really could make or break not only your season, but the season for someone who beat you, as it could cost them a championship. 

The national rankings with USC as the champ I think is pretty much the same thing, only you are comparing every school in the country instead of just within a conference.  All the teams that won the most games are compared to each other, and whoever had the highest strength of schedule was crowned national champion.  I'm assuming the 11 schools listed finished with identical records - the best in the nation - and the final rankings that list them in order are based on strength of schedule.   

That's how I interpret those articles.

Well, this is my fault for not clarifying.  I understand Dickinson's system just fine.  What I've wondered about is that he ranked the conferences every year and the conferences seemed to pay attention.  I think it's possible that the Big Ten actually used the winner of the system as their title winner, instead of the method they use now.  I'm wondering if anybody can provide thoughts on that.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 2:01 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



Geolion91 wrote:
B1GOSU wrote: Michigan was a founding member of the B1G in 1896. Prior to joining the B1G in 1912, Ohio State played in the Ohio Athletic Conference which still exists today as a Division III conference.

The fact that Michigan helped establish the premiere athletic conference in the country at the time Ohio State was playing in the equivalent to today's Division III conference leads me to believe that OSU simply was not playing the same level of football that a Michigan would play until joining the B1G in 1912. Ohio State - Oberlin was a 50/50 outcome game more or less back in those days at 13-10-3 in the 26 years the teams played each other.
I doubt that it made much difference then.  There wasn't much in the way of recruiting then,  players mostly were selected from the student body.  The only real advantage would be if Michigan had a significantly larger student population from which to select potential players.


I think the prestige might have mattered.  There's no question Ohio State wasn't playing at the same level when they were in the OAC.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 2:06 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



medinabuckeye1 wrote: ftbobs' link was what I wanted.  

Most frequent out-of-state tOSU opponents that have never been conference-mates:
  1. #13 Pitt, 25 games, 19-5-1
  2. #15 USC, 23 games, 9-13-1
  3. #22 Mizzou, 12 games, 10-1-1
  4. #24 Washington, 11 games, 8-3
All others are less than 10 games.  

As far as conference expansion, this might argue in favor of Pitt and Mizzou from tOSU's perspective, but our history even with those schools is so minimal as to not really be relevant.  

I'm lost on the site though, how do I recreate that, and create it for other teams?
At the bottom of every results page, there's a link that says:

Want to change the results? Click here to get the defaults for these options.

Click that and the options for that query defaults.

Essentially, you select Ohio State in the left "Search for team" box.  In the middle on the third line is a "Vs Teams" box you click to view opponents instead of Ohio State's results.  Toward the bottom in the middle, there's a sort by option, select Games Played.  Click Search.

Last edited 7/16/2014 2:06 PM by ftbobs

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Posted: 7/16/2014 3:04 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



ftbobs wrote:
medinabuckeye1 wrote:
I'm lost on the site though, how do I recreate that, and create it for other teams?
At the bottom of every results page, there's a link that says:

Want to change the results? Click here to get the defaults for these options.

Click that and the options for that query defaults.

Essentially, you select Ohio State in the left "Search for team" box.  In the middle on the third line is a "Vs Teams" box you click to view opponents instead of Ohio State's results.  Toward the bottom in the middle, there's a sort by option, select Games Played.  Click Search.
That helped, thank you.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 3:44 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 



B1GOSU wrote:

Of the top 8 teams on this list, only #1 Michigan and #3 Indiana are guaranteed annual games going forward.  #9 Michigan State and #10 Penn State are guaranteed annual games, as are Maryland and Rutgers, neither of which OSU has ever played before this season.
Based on the new E-W Divisions, here are some others:

Ohio State will play every year (frequency rank, games played):
  • #1 Michigan, 110 games
  • #3 Indiana, 87 games
  • #9 MSU, 42 games
  • #10/11t Penn State, 29 games
  • # n/a Maryland, 0 games
  • # n/a Rutgers, 0 games
Meanwhile, tOSU will not have every-year games with:
  • #2 Illinois, 100 games
  • #4 Wisconsin, 79 games
  • #5 Northwestern, 75 games
  • #6 Iowa, 64 games
  • #7 Purdue, 56 games
  • #8 Minnesota, 50 games

Michigan will play every year:
  • #1 Ohio State, 110 games
  • #2 MSU, 106 games
  • #7 Indiana, 62 games
  • #16/17t PSU, 17 games
  • #46/61t Maryland, 3 games
  • # n/a Rutgers, 0 games
Meanwhile, Michigan will not have every year games with:
  • #3 Minnesota, 100 games
  • #4 Illinois, 94 games
  • #5 Northwestern, 72 games
  • #6 Wisconsin, 64 games
  • #8 Iowa, 59 games
  • #9 Purdue, 58 games
  • #10 Notre Dame, 41 games

Penn State will play every year:
  • #8 Maryland, 37 games
  • #9 Ohio State, 29 games
  • #10/11t MSU, 28 games
  • #14 Rutgers, 24 games
  • #21/25t  Indiana, 17 games
  • #21/25t Michigan, 17 games
Meanwhile, PSU will not have every year games with:
  • #1 Pitt, 96 games
  • #2 Cuse, 71 games
  • #3 WVU, 59 games
  • #4 Penn, 47 games
  • #5 Temple, 42 games
  • #6/7t Bucknell, 38 games
  • #6/7t Navy, 38 games
  • #10/11t Gettysburg, 28 games
  • #12/13 Army, 25 games
  • #12/13t Iowa, 25 games


Michigan State will have every year games with:
  • #1 Michigan, 106 games
  • #4 Indiana, 60 games
  • #10 Ohio State, 42 games
  • #12 PSU, 28 games
  • #42/47t, Maryland, 5 games
  • #42/47t Rutgers, 5 games
Meanwhile, MSU will not have every year games with:
  • #2 Notre Dame, 77 games
  • #3 Purdue, 64 games
  • #5 Northwestern, 54 games
  • #6 Wisconsin, 52 games
  • #7 Minnesota, 46 games
  • #8/9t Illinois, 45 games
  • #8/9t Iowa, 45 games


Indiana will have every year games with:
  • #1 Purdue, 116 games
  • #2 tOSU, 87 games
  • #7 Michigan, 62 games
  • #8/9t MSU, 60 games
  • #16 PSU, 17 games
  • #56/75t Maryland, 2 games
  • # n/a Rutgers, 0 games
Meanwhile, Indiana will not have every year games with:
  • #3 Northwestern, 81 games
  • #4 Iowa, 74 games
  • #5 Illinois, 71 games
  • #6 Minnesota, 67 games
  • #8/9t Wisconsin, 60 games
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Last edited 7/16/2014 4:03 PM by medinabuckeye1

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Posted: 7/17/2014 1:04 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


And in the West Division:

Purdue will have every year games with:
  • #1 Indiana, 116 games
  • #2 Illinois, 89 games
  • #4 Iowa, 84 games
  • #5 Wisconsin, 81 games
  • #6 Northwestern, 78 games
  • #7 Minnesota, 69 games
  • #47/69t Nebraska, 2 games
Meanwhile, Purdue will not have every year games with:
  • #3 Notre Dame, 85 games
  • #8 MSU, 64 games
  • #9 Michigan, 58 games (amazing that Purdue has played MSU more than Michigan despite being in a conference with Michigan for most of the existence of the football program and only with MSU since 1953)
  • #10 Ohio State, 56 games


Illinois will have every year games with:
  • #1 Northwestern, 107 games
  • #4 Purdue, 89 games
  • #5 Wisconsin, 81 games
  • #7 Iowa, 69 games
  • #8 Minnesota, 66 games
  • #17 Nebraska, 11 games
Meanwhile, Illinois will not have every year games with:
  • #2 Ohio State, 100 games
  • #3 Michigan, 94 games
  • #6 Indiana, 71 games
  • #9 MSU, 45 games


Northwestern will have every year games with:
  • #1 Illinois, 107 games
  • #2 Wisconsin, 95 games
  • #3 Minnesota, 89 games
  • #5 Purdue, 78 games
  • #6.7t Iowa, 75 games
  • #21/23t Nebraska, 7 games
Meanwhile, Northwestern will not have every year games with:
  • #4 Indiana, 81 games
  • #6/7t Ohio State, 75 games
  • #8 Michigan, 72 games
  • #9 MSU, 54 games
  • #10 Notre Dame, 47 games

Wisconsin will have every year games with:
  • #1 Minnesota, 123 games
  • #2 Northwestern, 95 games
  • #3 Iowa, 87 games
  • #4 Purdue, 81 games
  • #5 Illinois, 80 games
  • #20 Nebraska, 8 games
Meanwhile, Wisconsin will not have every year games with:
  • #6 Ohio State, 79 games
  • #7 Michigan, 64 games
  • #8 Indiana, 60 games
  • #9 MSU, 52 games

Minnesota will have every year games with:
  • #1 Wisconsin, 123 games
  • #2 Iowa, 107 games
  • #4 Northwestern, 89 games
  • #5 Purdue, 69 games
  • #7 Illinois, 66 games
  • #8 Nebraska, 54 games
Meanwhile Minnesota will not have every year games with:
  • #3 Michigan, 100 games
  • #6 Indiana, 67 games
  • #9 Ohio State, 50 games
  • #10 MSU, 46 games


Iowa will have every year games with:
  • #1 Minnesota, 107 games
  • #2 Wisconsin, 87 games
  • #3 Purdue, 84 games
  • #4 Northwestern, 75 games
  • #6 Illinois, 69 games
  • #8 Iowa State, 61 games (assuming this continues)
  • #11 Nebraska, 44 games
Meanwhile, Iowa will not have every year games with:
  • #5 Indiana, 74 games
  • #7 Ohio State, 64 games
  • #9 Michigan, 59 games
  • #10 MSU, 45 games
  • #12 PSU, 25 games
Nebraska will have every year games with:
  • #7 Minnesota, 54 games
  • #8 Iowa, 44 games
  • #21/23t Illinois, 11 games
  • #29/35t Wisconsin, 8 games
  • #36/38t Northwestern, 7 games
  • #71/88t Purdue, 2 games
Meanwhile, Nebraska will not have every year games with:
  • #1 Kansas, 117 games
  • #2 Iowa State, 105 games
  • #3 Mizzou, 104 games
  • #4 Kansas State, 95 games
  • #5 Oklahoma, 86 games
  • #6 Colorado, 69 games
  • #9 Oklahoma State, 43 games
  • #10 Pitt, 24 games
  • #11 Indiana, 19 games
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Posted: 7/17/2014 1:28 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


Finally, the two new members:

Maryland will have every year games against:
  • #8 PSU, 37 games
  • #33 Rutgers, 9 games
  • #43/49 MSU, 5 games
  • #59/67t Michigan, 3 games
  • #68/89t Indiana, 2 games
  • #n/a Ohio State, 0 games
Meanwhile, Maryland will not have every year games against:
  • #1 Virginia, 78 games
  • #2/3 NCST, 70 games
  • #2/3 UNC, 70 games
  • #4/5 Wake, 62 games
  • #4/5 Clemson, 62 games
  • #6/7 Dook, 50 games
  • #6/7 WVU, 50 games
  • #9 Syracuse, 35 games


Rutgers will have every year games against:
  • #16 PSU, 24 games
  • #37/39 Maryland, 9 games
  • #50/56t MSU, 5 games
  • #n/a Ohio State, 0 games
  • #n/a Michigan, 0 games
  • #n/a Indiana, 0 games
Meanwhile Rutgers will not have every year games against 35 of their 36 most frequent opponents:
  • #1 Lehigh, 74 games
  • #2 Lafayette, 72 games
  • #3 Princeton, 71 games
  • #4 Columbia, 49 games
  • #5 Stevens, 46 games
  • #6/7 NYU, 43 games
  • #6/7 Syracuse, 43 games
  • #8 Colgate, 42 games
  • #9/10 Army, 39 games
  • #9/10 WVU, 39 games
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Posted: 7/17/2014 1:58 PM

Re: Ohio State All-Time Games Played vs. B1G 


Most frequently played games among current B1G members:
  1. Wisconsin-Minnesota, 123 games
  2. IU-Purdue, 116 games
  3. tOSU-M, 110 games
  4. Illinois-Northwestern, 107 games
  5. t, Iowa-Minnesota, 107 games
  6. M-MSU, 106 games
  7. tOSU-Illinois, 100 games
  8. t, M-Minnesota, 100 games
  9. Northwestern-Wisconsin, 95 games
  10. M-Illinois, 94 games
Bolded matchups will continue annually as intradivisional games.  
Underlined matchups will continue annually as protected annual cross-over interdivisional games.  

Thus, the most frequently played matchups that will not continue annually are the Ohio State/Illinois game for the Illibuck and the Michigan/Minnesota game for the Little Brown Jug.  

With the exception of new(ish) members PSU, Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers all B1G teams are represented in the top-10 most frequently played matchups among current B1G teams but some are represented more than others:
  • 4 matchups, Michigan - tOSU, MSU, Minnesota, Illinois
  • 3 matchups, Minnesota - Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan
  • 3 matchups, Illinois - Northwestern, tOSU, Michigan
  • 2 matchups, Wisconsin - Minnesota, Northwestern
  • 2 matchups, Ohio State - M, Illinois
  • 2 matchups, Northwestern - Illinois, Wisconsin
  • 1 matchup, Indiana - Purdue
  • 1 matchup, Purdue - Indiana
  • 1 matchup, Iowa - Minnesota
  • 1 matchup, MSU - Michigan
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