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25 turnovers???

Posted: 11/13/2012 10:02 AM

25 turnovers??? 


I wasn't able to watch the game (Charter Cable doesn't have Pac-12 network). But i rread the Fullerton game story and saw the box score. I understand getting outrebounded. That's going to happen a lot this year. But 25 turnovers!!! Can someone who watched the game tell me what happened.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:20 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? Post Rating (5 votes)


We turned the ball over 25 times, which resulted in 25 turnovers. Hope that clears it up for you.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:28 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


The three guards were trying to do too much. Seeley, Vaughn, and Yeager combined for 17 of those turnovers.

Driving into the lane without a plan, or sometimes driving and the guy they were going to dish it to moved.

When you play drive and dish basketball, positioning and communication are very important. It's just not there yet.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:37 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? Post Rating (1 vote)


To expound on Prof. Welton's brilliant exposition, this happens when the other team is much taller and almost as quick.

The only cure is to follow Dr. Sigma's prescription.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:47 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Doc, you must have been watching on a small screen or non HD TV. We would have had 25 turnovers against a team of slow Smurfs, most of our mistakes were not caused by anything the other team did or didn't do. It was all us.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:54 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Exactly...what's fascinating is we turned it over more in the first half than the second half.

What compounded it in the second half was poor help side defense (because of foul trouble) and poor shot selection.

Either way, Stanford is projected as an at large team in the tournament, and we gave them fits even with all those mistakes at times. If we clean up our mistakes, I like this team at the turn of the new year.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 11:05 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


did McLellan actually play as rumored???
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Posted: 11/13/2012 11:06 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


No.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 12:11 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Too much dribbling and loose hands.  Couldn't successfully high pass (taller opponents just picked them off), bounce passes were telegraphed and then intercepted, and I didn't see more than a few attempts at chest passes to move the ball, even tho the ones they did try were successful!!  Dribbling inside against taller, bigger players ended up with simply having the ball stolen.  We couldn't seem to score much from the inside.  And Stanford scored a LOT off the turnovers.

So many aborted 3-point shots -- I know it is more points, but two layups equal 4 points, three abandoned 3-pointers is zero points.  Stanford took more shots overall.  What I would have given for a few more layups or clean jump shots.  Foul trouble didn't help, I think we had two in the first 30 seconds of the second half. 

On a brighter note, there were a couple excellent examples of taking a charge, showing a glimmer of defense.  Lots of assists, and some nice examples of actual plays that were like watching a piece of fine choreography.  I thought Jared Brandon came off the bench quite well, and I heard that Coach Hicks gave a great talk at halftime.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 4:08 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? Post Rating (2 votes)


Chest pass???? How old are you, that went out with the peach baskets and tight shorts. Yes, must have been a great halftime speech - everyone responded so well.
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Posted: 11/13/2012 4:23 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Hmmm - I agree with most everything said above.  The turnovers are all a part of the purposeful helter skelter game plan.  With so many new pieces out there we were bound to have a lot of turnovers.  As Yeagar, Harris, Horne, etc. get used to playing with Seely and Vaughn the turnovers will decrease.

My biggest concern I just posted on another thread, but I'll put it here as well:

Part of the second half demise was the screens set by their bigs on our guards.  Specifically, their guards would drive the key from behind the free throw line.  When our guard was cut off by the screen, Deuce Johnson was left to stop the drive.  The guards flew by him without issue.  If McClellan plays this year, I'm hoping that his feet are a little quicker than Johnson's feet.

Jared Brandon and Horne, and of course Sammy Yeager, showed a lot of promise!  I'm looking forward to a little seasoning on those Titans!
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Posted: 11/13/2012 10:08 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


I was fortunate enough to watch the game on TV.  Helter Skelter vs. a bigger team rarely works when the other team is well coached. No dis to our interim/asst coach in this game. 

Dawkings is a terrific coach.  He recognized the problems at halftime and knew that we have nobody to stop the EZ layups.  Hence EZ shots for Stanford. 

Although 25 turnovers stinks we appear to be intense. We seem to want to win.  Cannot ask more.  We appear to be a good shooting team as long as we do not force shots.  Of course our inside scoring is bad yet fouls killed us in this game.  They forced us to play outside the entire game.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 10:03 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Was at the game. Our inside game was never tried. Went to the post 3 times . 2 of those times were turnovers. Team is strictly perimeter oriented...
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Posted: 11/14/2012 10:08 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Duh!!!!
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Posted: 11/14/2012 10:17 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? Post Rating (1 vote)


Got to concur with Rufus... and the one time it wasn't a turnover, Deuce forced an ill-advised shot. I sure hope he's not the type where once it goes inside, it will never come back out. If so, let's put Horne at the five and go with 5 guys who can hit threes.

Free Andy Newman!

Last edited 11/14/2012 10:25 AM by TitanCentral

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Posted: 11/14/2012 10:42 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? Post Rating (1 vote)


Then you can not complain about the inside game. There were more ill advised shots besides the "one" Deuce took. With that being said inside was not the reason for the loss. It is hard to beat any team if you turn over the ball 25 times. If we had as many turnovers as Stanford we may have won that game. "Duh"
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Posted: 11/14/2012 10:58 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Not complaining at all. We are what we are and that's a perimeter, guard-oriented team. I think we will have more success with driving to the basket and getting easier shots against our Big West brethren as they aren't as skilled nor as tall.

Stanford surprised me with their quickness and they did a good job in containing Kwame early but when he picked up that fourth foul, that, to me, was the turning point in the game.

We will need 35+ minutes from our big three to beat teams like Stanford, Nevada and UW. And we will also need to live and die by the three in those games. The rest of the games, not as much.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 11:01 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


I concur...
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Posted: 11/14/2012 11:11 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Hello to the Johnson family and thanks for joining the board!!! Love the Heart of "Duece"
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Posted: 11/14/2012 11:36 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Duh!!!!!!
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Posted: 11/14/2012 11:49 AM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Thanks for having me...I am my sons biggest critic...Right now he is too big...He is not as athlectic as he used to be. This is the first time in my life that I seen him get beat off the dribble by guys that size. And also have guys that size run with him on the break. He looks 270 when his idea weight is 235. He is normally a quick jumper but it seemed like it took him forever to get off the floor to dunk the ball the other night...
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Posted: 11/14/2012 12:07 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Welcome aboard.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 12:42 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


welcome JJ. With only TWO guys taller than 6'4" (in basketball "height") on the whole roster, minutes are certainly available if the "big" guys can perform well enough to be out there.  If the guards are as good as we think they are, there should be opportunities to score for a big man that can get position and keep their hands up, and get up and down the floor....
Go Titans!
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Posted: 11/14/2012 1:07 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


I have seen nothing at all in the first two games to warrant him more touches on the post.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 1:44 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Right now, I agree with his dad, he is too heavy and slow. He needs to lose some weight, and hopefully with the weight loss, he would regain his hops and floor running abilities. If he remains this slow, he won't see more in the way of touches.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 3:28 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? Post Rating (1 vote)


That maybe true now but if we do not try to establish some kind of inside game then we are easy to defend. Deuce can score the ball in dribble drive situations in the short corner or pick and roll. Is he a good low post scorer? Not really. But with a good passing point guard who can pass off the dribble he is a great finisher. Jrue Holiday was able to utilize him and win 2 state titles. His pg at Central Wyoming used him as such and Deuce was #3 in the nation in fg pct. There have been multiple situations where Deuce was open on pick and rolls in both games where he did see the ball...It worked well for him in thr scrimmage where he was 6 for 7 so it is doable...Keep it coming I have a thick skin.
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Posted: 11/14/2012 3:36 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Thanks for the insight dad but remember most here have been fans of Titan basketball for many years and have seen plenty of family members come and go...glad your thick skinned because we tell it like we see it and might not agree on all points....but again glad your aboard and like your sons attitude. Hope we have a great season!!
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Posted: 11/14/2012 3:46 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


I am old enough to be flattered that you think I am young!
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Posted: 11/14/2012 3:59 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


Trust me I get it...I also tell it like I see it...Basketball has been my girlfriend on the side for 37 years and counting...My son understands his roll on this team and he is going to do what is asked of him...I like the guys on this team and they should be very successfull...Chemistry plays a big part in their success...
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Posted: 11/14/2012 4:06 PM

Re: 25 turnovers??? 


I like JJ!
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