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2.0 Big East is Mid Major
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:21 AM
2.0 Big East is Mid Major
Lets not sugar coat this. Yes, great move by the C-7 schools to break away, but we are still missing some high major teams. Adding Creighton, Butler, and Xavier is not the same as Uconn, Pitt, Lville, and Cincy. Yes, Butler has been to final four 2 times but they are only good as their coach. What if Steven leaves ? I still think we need to add Uconn/Cincy/and maybe ND for basketball only schools. ND might not be too happy about not having a home next season, the travel makes sense for them, so they might look to get out. Lock those three schools into a bullet proof contract. |
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:30 AM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
Mush,
Imagine the impression of what the other teams joining this conference think of Depaul.
Were the weakest of them all.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:31 AM
RE: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
It's the best play you have right now.
"Mid major" is a term that is overused and has more weight in football where there are BCS tie in. DePaul and Louisville were both in "mid major" conferences for a while and our basketball teams did just fine. At the end of the day its about SOS and how you do against tourney level opponents. The school can also beef up the Nov/Dec schedule.
You will have plenty of chances to get quality wins against Quette, Nova, Xavier, Butler, St Johns, etc. That's all that matters.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:31 AM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
Windy, I agree that's why I think 2.0 Big East is mid major and we need to add more high major teams. |
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:33 AM
RE: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
By the way, is there any talk of adding Memphis to the C7? That would be a good play, IMO.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:33 AM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
Couple of points in response:
1. If the Big East is a "Mid-Major" conference, then so is the SEC, the Pac 10, and maybe even the Big 12.
2. What's the point of leaving the Big East if we're just going to bring back the football schools. And why would they want to join us and leave their football programs hung out to dry? ND might make some sense in case the ACC implodes.
3. There's no such thing as a bullet-proof contract when it comes to conference affiliation.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:45 AM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
Pac 12, Big 12 and SEC will always be high major bc of their football. We will be a basketball only conference, this smells like the C-USA, A-10 or MVC. What respect do those conferences get when it comes to basketball ? Adding those two or three schools will change that. The recruiting will get lot harder as well.
Last edited 3/1/2013 10:50 AM by mush1745
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:58 AM
Top 25
this week's rankings...
Georgetown ranked 7th
Butler ranked 20th
Marquette ranked 22nd
St. Louis if they are invited - ranked 18th
Sure doesn't sound mid-major to me.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 11:04 AM
Re: Top 25
nor easy or a "gift" BillyBlueDemon wrote: this week's rankings...
Georgetown ranked 7th
Butler ranked 20th
Marquette ranked 22nd
St. Louis if they are invited - ranked 18th
Sure doesn't sound mid-major to me. |
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Posted: 3/1/2013 11:08 AM
Re: Top 25
Gtown, Mu, and Nova will always field good teams. Yes, in a given year that might be the case that they are ranked but highly unlikely that this will occur more frequently. We were ranked 12 years ago as well.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 11:14 AM
Re: Top 25
BTW: how are you going to fill the arena across the country with STL, Xavier, Dayton, Butler coming into town. I don't see Lville, Uconn, Pitt or Cuse types of schools.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 11:57 AM
Re: Top 25
BillyBlueDemon wrote: this week's rankings...
Georgetown ranked 7th
Butler ranked 20th
Marquette ranked 22nd
St. Louis if they are invited - ranked 18th
Sure doesn't sound mid-major to me. That's some shallow logic there.
The current Big East is home to some real turds, DePaul included, but those turds are diluted into a bigger pool of gems. The current Big East's RPI is 0.5809. Losers like DePaul have less ability to tank the RPI because of the large pool. But when you shrink the pool, each program once again has a larger influence on RPI. The New Big East is essentially giving Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, and St. John's more influence over one of the most important college basketball rankings. The New Big East would have an RPI of .5701, which on the surface doesn't sound bad. It's worse than current but is still good enough for fourth in the NCAA. The problem is that RPI is influenced by SOS, which is dramatically impacted by the new conference. The real drop off occurs in the following year when losers outnumber winners in your conference, tank your SOS, and destroy your RPI. By my calculations the additions of Butler and St. Louis are not enough to compensate for the negative impact of Providence, Seton Hall, DePaul, and St. John's.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 3:36 PM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
The point is to have a conference with alligned interests.
The weakest part of the A-10 or Horizon is that the tv markets for most of the schools are not that good and so a tv deal will not be anywhere close to a deal that this conference can generate.
Those conferences tend to be dominated by one or two teams as well. It would not be good overall if it was just Gonzaga and the rest. Hopefully this will be a conference where 4 or 5 go to the NCAA each year and most of the rest are in the NIT.
RPI is going to matter on who these teams play non-conference and how they fare. Compared to the SMU, Houston, Central Florida, etc I will take my chances.
Hoepfully, the Commish here forces some good non-conference matchups on these coaches by signing deals like the Big East/SEC agreement. Sign it up with multiple conferences. Keeping the brand relevant requires marquee matchups, so why not sign a deal with UConn, Cincinnati to play non-conference games or Louisville as the exit is occuring. The long term benefit of those games may be better than the cash you would have to give up.
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Posted: 3/1/2013 4:34 PM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
well you know Molson, we will play a 300+ schedule, per OP's norm MolsonBlue2001 wrote: The point is to have a conference with alligned interests.
The weakest part of the A-10 or Horizon is that the tv markets for most of the schools are not that good and so a tv deal will not be anywhere close to a deal that this conference can generate.
Those conferences tend to be dominated by one or two teams as well. It would not be good overall if it was just Gonzaga and the rest. Hopefully this will be a conference where 4 or 5 go to the NCAA each year and most of the rest are in the NIT.
RPI is going to matter on who these teams play non-conference and how they fare. Compared to the SMU, Houston, Central Florida, etc I will take my chances.
Hoepfully, the Commish here forces some good non-conference matchups on these coaches by signing deals like the Big East/SEC agreement. Sign it up with multiple conferences. Keeping the brand relevant requires marquee matchups, so why not sign a deal with UConn, Cincinnati to play non-conference games or Louisville as the exit is occuring. The long term benefit of those games may be better than the cash you would have to give up. |
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Posted: 3/1/2013 4:35 PM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
Let’s at least be realistic in these discussions. First, a school that has DI football (e.g., Memphis) is not going to join this league. Second, IMO having football does not define being a high major in basketball. Certainly, many of the leagues that have football are defined as high majors but there are plenty of leagues – MAC, Mountain West, Conf USA – are not high majors in football nor in basketball. And really the Big East was not a high major in football. From everything I have read, most people (I will exclude Mush) believe the C7 is a high major. Certainly the Fox deal shows that it is a major player. Finally, tell me what “high major” is out there that the league can add? And please don’t give me schools with DI football or a certain west coast school. |
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Posted: 3/1/2013 6:35 PM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
Hey when Notre Dame is considering joining your league, even for just a year,I think that tells you you are a major conference. espn.go.com/college-sports/sto...ague-one-seasonAs arrogant and ridiculous ND is being, it definitely shows that they respect and value the C7 as a major conference. This is ND, they aren't going to join a league unless its major, even if its one year. Btw I wonder if this was planned. It's been almost confirmed that Butler and Xavier are to join making 9. I thought it was strange that rumors were saying only hose two for now and not three right away to make 10. This fits like a glove. I am sure the C7 having been saving this spot for ND, maybe hoping to convince them to stay with C7 and not join the ACC. Hey I mean TCU left the BE before it started.who says NDwont do the same? Anyway most likely not, because theACC will provide more $$$ but who knows. |
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Posted: 3/1/2013 10:43 PM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
It all depends how you define them. Mid-major schools often recruit lesser known talent ( like DPU), whereas
major conferences recruit the high profile high school athletes who are looking to attend the school that gives
them the most exposure for the next level. Base on the recruiting levels, I do not think schools like DPU, STL, Xavier, Creighton,
are high major players. Sure once in a while, they make a run and get
ranked but that doesn't happen so often and there maybe some exceptions.
Johnny come lately, wants to think that we are high major & relevent but 4/5 stars recruits tells us otherwise.
From what is being said about ND is very simple the logistic of scheduling games for this fall and the uncertainity of the Big East creates doubts.
ND would love to join our league so they don't have the headaches to deal with should Big East collapse after C7 leaves.
So that has nothing to do high or low major. The familarity with these schools are already established.
I would love ND, Cincy, and Uconn to join our league, and based on someone (AD) that I have spoken to is also saying the same thing. But they have to forget about football.
Last edited 3/1/2013 10:49 PM by mush1745
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Posted: 3/2/2013 9:27 AM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
So, your argument is that the Big East could be the 3rd-best basketball conference in the country, and still be a mid-major because they don't have football? mush1745 wrote: Pac 12, Big 12 and SEC will always be high major bc of their football. |
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Posted: 3/2/2013 1:02 PM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
The question was asked if Pac 12/SEC conf. are mid major as well...I simply replied that Pac 12/SEC schools all have BIG time football programs, and they all recruit next level talent so they would not be considered mid major programs. Those schools bring in money and value to their conf.
Now, in our new league we have Bball only schools therefore the recruiting talent base will suffer and cause us to be a mid major league. Who did we replace Lville, Pitt, Cuse and Uconn with ? We replace them with bunch of mid major schools so how does this change new league image ?
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Posted: 3/2/2013 1:10 PM
Re: 2.0 Big East is Mid Major
I wouldn't necessarily pin the C7 as either high or mid major it's right in the middle. I don't really care what we call it and I highly doubt schools like Marquette G Town St Johns and Villanova will feel recruiting is any harder. It's a good thing and the Big East has been a nightmare for DePaul (our own fault) but this conference is another "new start" for this program that hopefully the administration capitalizes on.
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