Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
InboxChat RoomChat Room (0 fans in chatroom)
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 4  Next >

Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push

Avatar

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:37 PM

Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


http://online.wsj.com/article/..._LEFTTopStories 

Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push


By JARED A. FAVOLE

WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama on Wednesday began his push for the most sweeping changes to gun laws in nearly two decades, including banning the sale of certain semiautomatic rifles and high-capacity ammunition magazines and requiring background checks for all gun buyers.

The president—rolling out his plan at a White House event flanked by children who wrote him in the aftermath of the shooting spree last month at a Connecticut elementary school—will push for a mix of 23 steps that he can take using executive powers as well as bigger moves that need congressional approval. A senior administration official said all the actions and proposals will cost about $500 million.

Banning certain types of weapons and high-capacity magazines, among other steps, will face a battle in Congress. Gun groups such as the National Rifle Association have said they will adamantly oppose many changes to gun laws.The president said that he respects the country's "strong tradition of gun ownership" but that the recent spate of mass shootings required action. "We can respect the Second Amendment while keeping an irresponsible law breaking few from inflicting harm on a massive level,'' he said.

The Newtown, Conn., school shooting last month has made gun control an urgent addition to the president's agenda as he begins his second term. In the month since the shootings, which killed 20 children and six adults at the school, Mr. Obama has mobilized Vice President Joe Biden, several cabinet members and other administration officials to study gun-control measures, mental-health issues, violence in videogames and more. After meeting with dozens of groups on both sides of the gun debate, Mr. Biden delivered a long list of recommendations to the president on Monday.

NRA officials have predicted that Congress won't pass legislation to ban high-capacity magazines and a group of semiautomatic rifles often called assault weapons, and many lawmakers have said many of the president's recommendations will face strong opposition.

Some states, including New York and Maryland, have moved ahead with aggressive gun-control laws. On Tuesday, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed a law that broadens the definition of banned semiautomatic rifles as so-called assault weapons and makes it illegal to own ammunition magazines with more than seven rounds.

New York's law also requires many gun owners to renew their licenses every five years, increases background checks and expands a law requiring some seriously mentally ill people to get treatment. It also requires psychiatrists and other health-care providers to report patients who may be dangerous to themselves or others.

According to a January poll conducted by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, about 85% of Americans favor making private gun sales and sales at gun shows subject to background checks. Also, Pew found, 80% support laws to prevent mentally ill people from purchasing guns.

But other measures show much more of a divide. Just 55% support a ban on assault-style weapons, with much stronger support from Democrats, the poll found.

Some of President Obama's Proposals
• Requiring background checks for all gun buyers [needs congressional approval]
• Ban certain semiautomatic rifles [needs congressional approval]
• Require a 10-round limit on ammunition magazines [needs congressional approval]
• Prohibit manufacturing, importation, possession and sale of armor-piercing bullets [needs congressional approval]
• New gun trafficking laws with serious penalties [needs congressional approval]
• Provide incentives for police departments to hire officers for schools and mental-health counselors [Something the NRA would likely support as it has called for armed guards in every school]
• Require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations
• Direct the Center for Disease Control to conduct research into the causes and prevention of gun violence
• Asking Congress to provide $10 million for the CDC to conduct research on gun violence
• Launch a national responsible gun ownership program
• Nominating B. Todd Jones to be permanent director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives [needs Senate confirmation; he is currently acting director]
Source: White House officials
____________________________
“I like when we’re overlooked. We’re going to bite some asses…believe me when I tell you that.”
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:48 PM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 



New York's law  expands a law requiring some seriously mentally ill people to get treatment. It also requires psychiatrists and other health-care providers to report patients who may be dangerous to themselves or others.
 
The ACLU will be all over this again.  They fought this battle once and won.  Why do you think some many mentally ill people are on the streets now.  It violates their rights to treat them without their consent.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/16/2013 1:07 PM

RE: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


I didn't vote for BO this time around, but I am glad he showed the conviction to make a real push for these changes. The NRA is an embarrassment for responsible gun owners.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/16/2013 3:09 PM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 



CaptainRon2 wrote:
New York's law  expands a law requiring some seriously mentally ill people to get treatment. It also requires psychiatrists and other health-care providers to report patients who may be dangerous to themselves or others.
 
The ACLU will be all over this again.  They fought this battle once and won.  Why do you think some many mentally ill people are on the streets now.  It violates their rights to treat them without their consent.
ACLU wasn't a big supporter of Obama, but definitely much more so than Mitt.  This will be an interesting battle.  Can Obama work with the ACLU on this or will he shun them as he typically does with people that disagree with him.  Should be interesting.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/16/2013 6:16 PM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 



CaptainRon2 wrote:
New York's law  expands a law requiring some seriously mentally ill people to get treatment. It also requires psychiatrists and other health-care providers to report patients who may be dangerous to themselves or others.
 
The ACLU will be all over this again.  They fought this battle once and won.  Why do you think some many mentally ill people are on the streets now.  It violates their rights to treat them without their consent.

Because Ronald Reagan and the Republicans pushed forward policies and fiscal budgets towards the treatment of mental illness that satisfied special interest groups and the demands of the business community, but failed to address the issue of the treatment of the mentally ill?


---- 
ESPN: The Fox News of Sports! (TM)

Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/16/2013 6:44 PM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


Wrong. Do a little research and get back to us. Start with ACLU
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/16/2013 9:50 PM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 



CaptainRon2 wrote: Wrong. Do a little research and get back to us. Start with ACLU

Son, You don't want to get on my bad side in a debate.  Don't take my word for it... take FF or Shamrock or any of the other right wingers who do longer post their idiocy here.

In Reagan's first month in office, the Office of Management Budget announced the curtailing of the budget for the national Institute of mental health (NIMH).  This included phasing out training of clinicians, interrupting research and eliminating services.  Also cutbacks to staffing.  With the drop in NIHM's budget, trained professionals began leaving NIHM.  The Mental Health Systems Act evaporated.  In its place was the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982. This act merged money for mental health program into block grants.  With that, fewer dollars flowed to the states.  With the money they did get, the states had the discretion to use the money as they saw fit.

We can go back and forth with you quoting Fox News explanation of actual facts.  In order to keep this from getting into a 6 page discussion, then al we need to do is answer this question.

If the reason for the dumping of the mentally ill was due to the ACLU rather than Reagan, then the right wingers here would have no problem in restoring more money into NIHM to get the ill off the streets, out of the prisons and into federally funded hospitals.

---- 
ESPN: The Fox News of Sports! (TM)

Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/16/2013 9:57 PM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


Fox News, as people who don't really have an argument like to refer to has nothing to do with this "son". I had family that were directly affected by that ACLU ruling. It was directly responsible for closing down many of the central treatment centers and putting people on the street. To me this wasn't politics, it was personal. Son...

---------------------------------------------
--- DesertFriar wrote:


CaptainRon2 wrote: Wrong. Do a little research and get back to us. Start with ACLU

Son, You don't want to get on my bad side in a debate.  Don't take my word for it... take FF or Shamrock or any of the other right wingers who do longer post their idiocy here.

In Reagan's first month in office, the Office of Management Budget announced the curtailing of the budget for the national Institute of mental health (NIMH).  This included phasing out training of clinicians, interrupting research and eliminating services.  Also cutbacks to staffing.  With the drop in NIHM's budget, trained professionals began leaving NIHM.  The Mental Health Systems Act evaporated.  In its place was the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982. This act merged money for mental health program into block grants.  With that, fewer dollars flowed to the states.  With the money they did get, the states had the discretion to use the money as they saw fit.

We can go back and forth with you quoting Fox News explanation of actual facts.  In order to keep this from getting into a 6 page discussion, then al we need to do is answer this question.

If the reason for the dumping of the mentally ill was due to the ACLU rather than Reagan, then the right wingers here would have no problem in restoring more money into NIHM to get the ill off the streets, out of the prisons and into federally funded hospitals.



---------------------------------------------
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/16/2013 10:57 PM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 



CaptainRon2 wrote: Fox News, as people who don't really have an argument like to refer to has nothing to do with this "son". I had family that were directly affected by that ACLU ruling. It was directly responsible for closing down many of the central treatment centers and putting people on the street. To me this wasn't politics, it was personal. Son...

That your family was affected adversely by any mental health decisions I am sorry to hear.  However, to affix blame to the ACLU is wrong.  They argue cases, they don't rule on those cases.  

My assumption is that you're talking about the ACLU's representation in O'COnnor v. Donaldson.  For those not familiar with the case the background of the case is:

Kenneth Donaldson was 34, married with three children, and working in a General Electric defense plant when he had his first episode in 1943. Hospitalized at Marcy State Hospital, he was given 23 electro-shock treatments and resumed normal life. In the mid-1950s he developed paranoid delusions that he was being poisoned. At his parents' instigation, he was committed to Florida's Chattahoochee State Hospital in 1956. He remained there for fifteen years. Donaldson lacked insight (i.e., suffered anosognosia), and steadfastly denying he was ill, refused all treatment once he was hospitalized. He had a high degree of motivation, persistence and intelligence, and through the years persistently petitioned the courts for his release.

While he was in Chattahoochee, there were repeated offers - both from a halfway house in Minneapolis and a friend of Donaldson's in Syracuse - to provide a home and supervision for him.

Donaldson's own (probably correct) view was that the hospital's doctors would not release him because he refused to play what he called "the game" of thanking the doctors for making him better. Instead, he adamantly denied he was or ever had been ill.

The fact is that the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 for Donaldson.  Are you trying to say that William Rehnquist was a closet card carrying member of the ACLU?

---- 
ESPN: The Fox News of Sports! (TM)

Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/16/2013 11:56 PM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 



Don't flatter yourself. Rock stopped posting here for many reasons and was then banned from posting. I can assure you that it had nothing to do with his fear of debating you, son. Do you think the reason that many conservatives have stopped posting here has more to do with the fact that you are a pompous jerk? The problem with message boards is that people like you say things that they would never say to someone's face.
---------------------------------------------
--- DesertFriar wrote:


CaptainRon2 wrote: Wrong. Do a little research and get back to us. Start with ACLU

Son, You don't want to get on my bad side in a debate.  Don't take my word for it... take FF or Shamrock or any of the other right wingers who do longer post their idiocy here.

In Reagan's first month in office, the Office of Management Budget announced the curtailing of the budget for the national Institute of mental health (NIMH).  This included phasing out training of clinicians, interrupting research and eliminating services.  Also cutbacks to staffing.  With the drop in NIHM's budget, trained professionals began leaving NIHM.  The Mental Health Systems Act evaporated.  In its place was the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982. This act merged money for mental health program into block grants.  With that, fewer dollars flowed to the states.  With the money they did get, the states had the discretion to use the money as they saw fit.

We can go back and forth with you quoting Fox News explanation of actual facts.  In order to keep this from getting into a 6 page discussion, then al we need to do is answer this question.

If the reason for the dumping of the mentally ill was due to the ACLU rather than Reagan, then the right wingers here would have no problem in restoring more money into NIHM to get the ill off the streets, out of the prisons and into federally funded hospitals.



---------------------------------------------




Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/17/2013 12:02 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


Well this one is off to a great start.




Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/17/2013 6:55 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 



I would love someone to actually refute Desert's post instead of insult him....



---------------------------------------------
--- Gillen4 wrote:

Well this one is off to a great start.

---------------------------------------------
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/17/2013 6:58 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


Maybe he should stop with the condescending "son" type of language and he wouldn't be insulted. 

Edit:  Also, Desert essentially stated an opinion so I'm not exactly sure how it can be refuted.  It is his opinion that the reason that there are so many people on the streets with mental illness now is a result of a budget cut that occurred under a Republican administration 30+ years ago.  Captain Ron's opinion is that the ACLU is also to blame. The ACLU certainly has a history in this arena.  Shockingly, Desert is placing ALL of the blame on a budget cut made by a republican president 30+ years ago.  Again, I'm not sure what there is to refute.
BipolarFriar wrote:
I would love someone to actually refute Desert's post instead of insult him....



---------------------------------------------
--- Gillen4 wrote:

Well this one is off to a great start.

---------------------------------------------




Last edited 1/17/2013 7:26 AM by blue22580

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/17/2013 7:51 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


This all started way before Reagan took office, so any connection to him is tenuous at best. Most of the legal action began in the early to mid seventies.

The ACLU just did their job, not sure why the hatred towards them in this case. To advocate a return to a state institution model is absurd. While the closing of these institutions led to a boom in homelessness, it also forced a change in the style of treatment for individuals (it took decades to even out).

Mental illness is still a major factor in homelessness, but involuntary confinement is a direct affront to constitutional protected liberty.

What does this have to do with the ACLU? very little.
What does this have to do with Reagan? Almost nothing.
What does this have to do with gun control? the rights of individuals (particularly privacy) with mental health issues will have to be considered prior to implementing some of the executive orders/legislation that is on the table.

can we get back to the original debate?
BipolarFriar wrote:
I would love someone to actually refute Desert's post instead of insult him....



---------------------------------------------
--- Gillen4 wrote:

Well this one is off to a great start.

---------------------------------------------
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/17/2013 8:49 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


I think legislation like this shows how absurd the NRA is ... Protecting Kids? You need more than a 10 magazine clip to protect yourself? You need assault weapons to protect yourself? You should be happy to have better background check processes to protect legitimate gun owners and keep everyone safe.

Obama didn't come out and say "I hate guns, let's get rid of all of them," yet people will still find reasons to bitch. He is still allowing people "the right to bare arms," just not ridiculous, absurd arms.

Perhaps it would be ok for me to just walk around with a bazooka?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We have a chance to do great things at Providence."

Paschal Chukwu - August 29, 2013
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/17/2013 9:18 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


Is anyone taking the NRA position on this one?
"I'm here to help - if my help's not appreciated then lotsa luck gentlemen"....................Winston Wolf
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/17/2013 9:55 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


Just so we are all aware (btw, you can ban them all for all I care) in regards to these "military style" assault weapons; the military would not use them in any instance, other than how they look, "military style" they do not function like military weapons, (automatic) in fact they function identically to standard semi-automatic hunting rifles in every way, with smaller ammunition in fact.

Now the high capacity magazines that these things can hold are another thing, they should have never let that ban expire.

Let's face it; unless we are going to be able to build more jails to put people in then this law while wonderfully symbolic will have zero effect on gun deaths, there are virtually 1,000's of gun laws on the books right now throughout the US and in every major city in the US that are not enforced.

In Murdermore, Maryland for instance there is a 1 year mandatory jail sentence for the simple possession of a unregistered firearm.  Guess how often that is enforced?
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/17/2013 10:12 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 




---------------------------------------------
--- CTDave wrote:

Is anyone taking the NRA position on this one?

---------------------------------------------

I am a hunter and I fired exactly one round this season...I carry only five rounds when I go into the woods and know of only one other hunter who uses anything more than a bolt action rifle...so far, Obama's actions won't impact me in any significant manner...

P.S. I am a member of a sportsmen's club and the vast majority of us are not members of the NRA...
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/17/2013 10:24 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


Crazy people will always be able to get their hands on a gun, but maybe we can stop making it so easy for them to kill en-mass.  I agree that the style of gun doesn't make much difference, but some sane restrictions on the manufacture and sale of high capacity magazines seems to make sense.  It won't work overnight because there are probably tens of thousands of high capacity magazines already in existence, but over time, it will most likely stem the carnage.  You have to start somewhere, and I don't think the 2nd Amendment protects the size of a magazine.
"I'm here to help - if my help's not appreciated then lotsa luck gentlemen"....................Winston Wolf
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/17/2013 10:34 AM

Re: Obama Unveils Gun-Control Push 


I agree, if they want to really make it effective then they would have to make the possession of them illegal.  Apparently they have sold millions of these magazines just in the last month.
Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 4  Next >