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Question for the liberals on here.

Posted: 1/28/2013 9:56 PM

Question for the liberals on here. 


Liberals always seem to want to raise taxes, in fact always talk about wanting the rich to pay their fair share. So my question to you is simple.....what is a fare share? I mean is paying 40, 50 or 60% fair? Where do you draw the line?

 Hoddy Toddy and WHO DAte
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Posted: 1/28/2013 10:06 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


What is, in your opinion, a "liberal?" This isn't a trick question or a smart *** question. What makes a "liberal" to you?
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Posted: 1/28/2013 10:10 PM

Re: Question for the liberals on here. 


Until private wealth is completely equitably redistributed, there is no rest for the weary redistributors. They have rationalized and decided that all individuals must be equal since no private person or organization actually 'set the table' for the creation of wealth (YOU didn't build that highway).

Last edited 1/28/2013 10:10 PM by soccerfut

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Posted: 1/28/2013 10:13 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


Doesn't matter answer the question that was asked or don't reply.
Grahf wrote: What is, in your opinion, a "liberal?" This isn't a trick question or a smart *** question. What makes a "liberal" to you?
 Hoddy Toddy and WHO DAte
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Posted: 1/28/2013 10:17 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


LOL. So you won't, or can't, answer what a "liberal" is? Come on. I'm interested in knowing what you mean.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:02 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 




A liberal is usually a person that answers a question by asking another because they can't answer the question poised to them. That is usually a good sign of a liberal.

Now to the real question. The answer is there is no fair amount. The only fair way to tax is to have a Fair Tax. That way everybody pays something and you pay according to how much you have to spend! The problem with that is its way to simple!!

By the way soccerfut, I'm of course not a liberal but decided to chat in my opinion.

Last edited 1/29/2013 6:28 AM by Tp35812

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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:10 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


Everyone can agree that we all want to be taxed fairly, the difficulty comes in when attempting to define what truly is "fair". A universal sales tax to replace income tax would be lovely and simple, the $64,000 Question is getting the rate correctly figured. It won't happen as it is way too simple (bureaucracies abhor simplicity) and would displace way too many politically entrenched folks and institutions.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 7:18 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


20% flat.... if you make 20 grand... you pay 4.... if you make 200 grand... you pay 40... it's not hard.

Blah blah, they don't like simplicity, blah blah, that won't work.... well leave! lol.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 7:35 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


Have we not beaten this poor dead horse enough in prior threads?
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Posted: 1/29/2013 8:39 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


No I can answer that question and if you want it answered post a thread and ask it, Now I ask you a question that it appears you are to afraid to try and answer.

If a liberal gave a honest answer it would be that there isn't a fair share, they want it all. It's ok for them to make money but not for you.
Grahf wrote: LOL. So you won't, or can't, answer what a "liberal" is? Come on. I'm interested in knowing what you mean.
 Hoddy Toddy and WHO DAte
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Posted: 1/29/2013 8:57 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



bigrebelfan05 wrote: 20% flat.... if you make 20 grand... you pay 4.... if you make 200 grand... you pay 40... it's not hard.

Blah blah, they don't like simplicity, blah blah, that won't work.... well leave! lol.
Eh, I used to be a fan of a flat tax because it is so simple and everybody pays the same. But now that I've been out in the world and spending my money on necessities, I think that each individual needs a particular tax rate. 

It sounds difficult to administer, but ideally, I think that the government should tax what is actually in an individual's bank account at the end of each year. After I've paid for everything that I need to live.
2013 MST Fantasy Football Champion

Last edited 1/29/2013 8:58 AM by AmazingSpiderman

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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:01 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


---------------------------------------------
--- AmazingSpiderman wrote:

It sounds difficult to administer, but ideally, I think that the government should tax what is actually in an individual's bank account at the end of each year. After I've paid for everything that I need to live.

---------------------------------------------

You'd have to eliminate cash. Otherwise, every mattress becomes a tax haven.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:12 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



rockwebmaster wrote: ---------------------------------------------
--- AmazingSpiderman wrote:

It sounds difficult to administer, but ideally, I think that the government should tax what is actually in an individual's bank account at the end of each year. After I've paid for everything that I need to live.

---------------------------------------------

You'd have to eliminate cash. Otherwise, every mattress becomes a tax haven.
Could be easily done. I would wager the majority of Americans have some form of plastic already. Do you agree with my sentiment?
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Posted: 1/29/2013 9:36 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



AmazingSpiderman wrote: Could be easily done. I would wager the majority of Americans have some form of plastic already. Do you agree with my sentiment?
I have quite a bit of 'plastic' and rarely use cash. While many Americans have either a debit or credit card, the former presupposes that one has a bank account and the latter that one has a decent credit rating. Every week I hear about people who have amassed huge debts through the use of credit cards.

There's also the question of "need". Do you or I, or the majority of people you or I know truly only spend money on things that are needed? Of course not.

You're also going to get enough virulent objections from the "Number of the Beast" crowd to make this whole scheme a non-starter.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:10 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



rockwebmaster wrote:
AmazingSpiderman wrote: Could be easily done. I would wager the majority of Americans have some form of plastic already. Do you agree with my sentiment?
I have quite a bit of 'plastic' and rarely use cash. While many Americans have either a debit or credit card, the former presupposes that one has a bank account and the latter that one has a decent credit rating. Every week I hear about people who have amassed huge debts through the use of credit cards.

There's also the question of "need". Do you or I, or the majority of people you or I know truly only spend money on things that are needed? Of course not.

You're also going to get enough virulent objections from the "Number of the Beast" crowd to make this whole scheme a non-starter.
I rarely use cash as well. I use a credit card, but also have a debit card that I could use to make purchases if I desired. Allow the federal government to cap the credit limit on all credit cards. I look at this as a way that the government can actually teach an individual responsibility.

On the subject of "needs". I put that in there for those who are truly struggling to get by. They need as much of their paycheck as they can get. As for those of us who are blessed enough to be able to afford extras in our life. IF we are spending money in the American marketplace, we are often paying a sales tax. The government will still get "their" money. Even if I spend all my excess income each year just so I don't have to pay income taxes, I have still, more than likely, paid a sales tax to the USA government.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:23 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


Spidey... what if I spend all my money every year, but still take care of all my bills... yet I make 250K... would my tax rate be 0 if nothing was in the bank?
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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:32 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



bigrebelfan05 wrote: Spidey... what if I spend all my money every year, but still take care of all my bills... yet I make 250K... would my tax rate be 0 if nothing was in the bank?
Yes.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:38 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



AmazingSpiderman wrote:
It sounds difficult to administer, but ideally, I think that the government should tax what is actually in an individual's bank account at the end of each year. After I've paid for everything that I need to live.
So you'd encourage people to waste all of their resources and not save for the proverbial "rainy day"?  What about saving for retirement?  Or should everyone burn through their cash so as to avoid the tax man and then ultimately become a ward of the state when you can no longer provide for yourself?
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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:41 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


When and where did I say that? People still have to be responsible. I just think the government should take of what I have left as opposed to taking it before I have had a chance to spend it on things I need.
WCOrangeNation wrote:
AmazingSpiderman wrote:
It sounds difficult to administer, but ideally, I think that the government should tax what is actually in an individual's bank account at the end of each year. After I've paid for everything that I need to live.
So you'd encourage people to waste all of their resources and not save for the proverbial "rainy day"?  What about saving for retirement?  Or should everyone burn through their cash so as to avoid the tax man and then ultimately become a ward of the state when you can no longer provide for yourself?
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Last edited 1/29/2013 10:44 AM by AmazingSpiderman

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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:46 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



AmazingSpiderman wrote: Even if I spend all my excess income each year just so I don't have to pay income taxes, I have still, more than likely, paid a sales tax to the USA government.
There is no "USA government" sales tax. There are Federal excise taxes tied to gasoline and diesel purchases, but sales taxes (based on a percentage of the price) are state and local, not Federal.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:48 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



rockwebmaster wrote:
AmazingSpiderman wrote: Even if I spend all my excess income each year just so I don't have to pay income taxes, I have still, more than likely, paid a sales tax to the USA government.
There is no "USA government" sales tax. There are Federal excise taxes tied to gasoline and diesel purchases, but sales taxes (based on a percentage of the price) are state and local, not Federal.
Apologies. Then it would be ideal in my scenario for the USA government to establish one.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 10:50 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


Again, what represents need? Is a new smartphone every year or two a need?

Perhaps the government could determine a set amount that every person needs (for food, medicine, clothing, shelter) to survive and deduct that from the gross income before taxes are calculated. They could even call it a "personal exemption".
AmazingSpiderman wrote: When and where did I say that? People still have to be responsible. I just think the government should take of what I have left as opposed to taking it before I have had a chance to spend it on things I need.

Last edited 1/29/2013 10:53 AM by rockwebmaster

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Posted: 1/29/2013 11:04 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


It doesn't matter. Establish a national sales tax, and tax what people have left remaining in their bank accounts. IF a person spends every last penny, so be it. They have given money to the government anyway through the national sales tax. For those who are responsible and don't spend everything, the government gets money from purchases and income. What it boils down to is that I don't believe that the government has the right to garnish my wages. They can tax my income all they want. Give me a better opportunity to provide everything that me and my family need/want first. In the end, as much as I hate to say it, I agree with soccerfut, flat national sales tax would be desirable.

As for the "personal exemption" idea. That could work too. I believe they will already let you deduct medical fees.
rockwebmaster wrote: Again, what represents need? Is a new smartphone every year or two a need?

Perhaps the government could determine a set amount that every person needs (for food, medicine, clothing, shelter) to survive and deduct that from the gross income before taxes are calculated. They could even call it a "personal exemption".
AmazingSpiderman wrote: When and where did I say that? People still have to be responsible. I just think the government should take of what I have left as opposed to taking it before I have had a chance to spend it on things I need.
2013 MST Fantasy Football Champion

Last edited 1/29/2013 11:05 AM by AmazingSpiderman

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Posted: 1/29/2013 11:14 AM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



AmazingSpiderman wrote: When and where did I say that? People still have to be responsible. I just think the government should take of what I have left as opposed to taking it before I have had a chance to spend it on things I need.
WCOrangeNation wrote:
AmazingSpiderman wrote:
It sounds difficult to administer, but ideally, I think that the government should tax what is actually in an individual's bank account at the end of each year. After I've paid for everything that I need to live.
So you'd encourage people to waste all of their resources and not save for the proverbial "rainy day"?  What about saving for retirement?  Or should everyone burn through their cash so as to avoid the tax man and then ultimately become a ward of the state when you can no longer provide for yourself?
You didn;t say all that, but that's what would happen in practice.  Think about it.  Only the responsible people who be taxed, while people who were fiscally irresponsible, or the ones who planned ahead, would pay no taxes.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:15 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



WCOrangeNation wrote: Think about it. Only the responsible people who be taxed, while people who were fiscally irresponsible, or the ones who planned ahead, would pay no taxes.
In just a few seconds, I thought of several ways to get out of paying any taxes at all using this "scheme". I'm sure slick financial planners could devise many more. A simple way to avoid paying Spidey's end-of-year bank tax would be to invest whatever remains in the bank account in gift cards.

Needless to say, this plan is dead in the water.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:51 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


All i know is if our economy fails it wont matter how much cash you got.and unless some thing changes that will most likely happen.
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Posted: 1/29/2013 12:59 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


To our resident genuises, Tp and 6stringslide:

I'm not "afraid" to answer the original question. Also, I'd bet my life in a heartbeat that at least once in your lives you both have answered a question with another question, which, according to Tp's flawless logic, qualifies you both as "liberals" automatically. I asked my question because what makes one "liberal" or "conservative" in fiscal philosophy is almost always a matter of degree rather than principle. For example, we all probably agree that taxation is necessary for certain things, like the military, core government services, certain social programs, etc. Some believe that taxation and government expansion should be broader; some don't. I just want to know the OP's definition of a "liberal" as it applies to this topic. It appears he or she cannot answer that question.

As for the original question, I'll be happy to answer, but the OP will have to be clearer. What sort of taxes are we talking about here? Wage tax? Dividends? Capital gains? Estate?

Does the OP know what those are?
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Last edited 1/29/2013 1:00 PM by Grahf

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Posted: 1/29/2013 5:45 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 




---------------------------------------------
--- Grahf wrote:

To our resident genuises, Tp and 6stringslide:

I'm not "afraid" to answer the original question. Also, I'd bet my life in a heartbeat that at least once in your lives you both have answered a question with another question, which, according to Tp's flawless logic, qualifies you both as "liberals" automatically. I asked my question because what makes one "liberal" or "conservative" in fiscal philosophy is almost always a matter of degree rather than principle. For example, we all probably agree that taxation is necessary for certain things, like the military, core government services, certain social programs, etc. Some believe that taxation and government expansion should be broader; some don't. I just want to know the OP's definition of a "liberal" as it applies to this topic. It appears he or she cannot answer that question.

As for the original question, I'll be happy to answer, but the OP will have to be clearer. What sort of taxes are we talking about here? Wage tax? Dividends? Capital gains? Estate?

Does the OP know what those are?

---------------------------------------------

Tp35812 wrote:

You still didn't answer the question! I know you're not dumb enough not understand what taxes he's asking about! But just in case he is speaking about income taxes. So how much do you consider to be fair?
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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:03 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 



Tp35812 wrote: You still didn't answer the question! I know you're not dumb enough not understand what taxes he's asking about! But just in case he is speaking about income taxes. So how much do you consider to be fair?
There are several different "income" taxes. How about you take a ******* English comp class so you can learn to R-E-A-D?
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Posted: 1/29/2013 6:27 PM

RE: Question for the liberals on here. 


To diffuse this situation.... he's talking about federal wage tax.
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