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20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions

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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:52 PM

20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Link to story...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/secission-peti tions-filed-20-states-190210006.html
"I'd rather die, than give up."
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Posted: 11/12/2012 4:40 PM

Re: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Nobody is gonna' get away that easy:  wink

What Shall Be Done for a Revenue?
New York Evening Post, March 12, 1861

There are some difficulties attending the collection of the revenue in the seceding states which it will be well to look at attentively.

That either the revenue from duties must be collected in the ports of the rebel states, or the ports must be closed to importations from abroad, is generally admitted. If neither of these things be done, our revenue laws are substantially repealed; the sources which supply our treasury will be dried up; we shall have no money to carry on the government; the nation will become bankrupt before the next crop of corn is ripe. There will be nothing to furnish means of subsistence to the army; nothing to keep our navy afloat; nothing to pay the salaries of the public officers; the present order of things must come to a dead stop. Allow railroad iron to be entered at Savannah with the low duty of ten per cent., which is all that the Southern Confederacy think of laying on imported goods, and not an ounce more would be imported at New York; the railways would be supplied from the southern ports. Let cotton goods, let woollen fabrics, let the various manufactures of iron and steel be entered freely at Galveston, at the great port at the mouth of the Mississippi, at Mobile, at Savannah and at Charleston, and they would be immediately sent up the rivers and carried on the railways to the remotest parts of the Union.


http://www.historians.org/proj...st_03_12_61.cfm

Pay up or die....
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Posted: 11/12/2012 4:55 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Please let us go!

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Posted: 11/12/2012 6:27 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Will these mean we'll have slavery again?

"oh lordy lordy, I'll never roam these streets again sir!" "yessah massa!"

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Posted: 11/12/2012 6:58 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Well you knew it wouldn't be long before somebody brought race into the discussion...

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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:11 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


No State -- that is, no legislature or governor -- has petitioned for secession. These were started by a few common idiots, er, fine citizens, who are upset that Romney lost. In some of the States (read: Texas) there has been traction in the form of the 25,000 or so signatures required for the POTUS to review the matter, but this is sort of akin to saying that "Ole Miss students rioted!!!!" after the election, which, as we all know, is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
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Last edited 11/12/2012 7:14 PM by Grahf

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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:22 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


I'm not surprised, especially if Texas decided to. I was in Texas a couple of weeks ago and noticed Texans are pretty independent. Texas could do just fine without the Union imposing all their taxes and regulations. It wouldn't be a surprise if Texas says we've had enough of you're BS!!!
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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:24 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Furthermore, this sort of behavior casts a poor reflection on even the voting demographic of a state like Texas. Around 57% of her voters (which is around 4.5 million of her people) cast their ballots for Romney, which leaves the remaining 43% of her voters (around 3.2-3.3 million) in either the Obama corner or in the corner of other candidates. That's not quite half-and-half, but it's not far off. Do you really think nearly half of Texas would sit idle if the wheels of motion ever seriously began for this?

These people are *******. They don't love the U.S. and they're not willing to fight for what they believe in. They want to take their ball and go home because they lost. Their sentiment is as disgusting as that of some John Kerry supporters who had called for the same back in 2008. I'm sick and tired of this intended division. These types of people refuse to act like rational, logical adults in American politics.
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Last edited 12/17/2012 5:29 PM by BlakeThompson

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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:42 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 



pearlboy601 wrote: Will these mean we'll have slavery again?

"oh lordy lordy, I'll never roam these streets again sir!" "yessah massa!"
The people who work and pay taxes will be the slaves.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 8:40 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


I support secession, and I didn't vote for Romney.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 8:52 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Then you're right there with them. Congratulations on your cowardice.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:15 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Yeah, old Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and the rest of those cowards who signed the declaration of independence... How dare they not show love and devotion to their country?!

Cowards...

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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:19 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Jefferson, Franklin, et al, didn't threaten secession because Hussein Obamer was re-elected Vice Emperor of England. That you believe 21st century America is akin to 18th century England is depressing to no end.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:23 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Oh yeah I forgot that I support secession because Obama is President....Because I have always totally said that, like even before he was President.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:23 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


I wonder how many people realize that there would need to be an amendment to the constitution for secession to happen.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:34 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


What we have instead is a group of intellectually lazy cowards who, instead of working to raise this country out of its current mire, wish to instead divide it. They are completely ignorant of our taxation principles and history, are completely ignorant of the social and economic dynamics their ultra-right policies would wreak. They're completely ignorant period. I for one am tired of it. They're as disgusting as any ultra-left advocate could ever be.

Newsflash, people: America has never been perfect and never will be. Your so-called "enlightened age," replete with its founding fathers-this and founding fathers-that, had blemishes like slavery, draconian property laws, outright discrimination against various minority groups and the like. As wonderful and wise as some of those men, those founding fathers, were, they were still only men who were shining examples of what the future of America COULD BE. We as a country had to continue to WORK AND EVOLVE to where we were in the mid-to-late 1900s. In the past decade or so we have regressed substantially, and watching some of you parrot this moronic sense of self-serving rhetoric that only serves to drive the wedge further makes me sick. It makes me ******* sick. Grow up.
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Last edited 11/12/2012 9:36 PM by Grahf

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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:35 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 



SaratogaSprings wrote: Oh yeah I forgot that I support secession because Obama is President....Because I have always totally said that, like even before he was President.
Obama's re-election is the driving point for a lot of these people. Make no mistake about it. As for the loonies like you who have called or would call for secession regardless of the outcome, your stances aren't any better.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:44 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Wah Wah Wah... Do you need a bottle now?

America is too big. I don't like a one size fits all government. You can't govern everybody the same because we are not the same. We have very different beliefs, cultures, views on the role of government. People generally share the same ideals with others who are local. The people of California and Nevada do not share, for the most part, the same ideals and beliefs on life or government as the people of Mississippi and Georgia. It's time for this country to be divided and made into smaller republics.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 9:54 PM

Re: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Reading "Wah wah wah" is funny, coming from someone who is known on this board for constantly whining like a bítch.

Anyway, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who believes that blanket policy is adequate for most issues... which is, you know, why we have states' right for so many things, which is why we have referendums and the Constitution and the structure of government currently in place to systematically correct any serious ills or grievances that should arise, as is their tendency.

But, you're right. Anytime a problem gets too tough to handle, let's just divide up and walk away from it. That will solve everything for everyone.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 10:03 PM

Re: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


The Federal Government as now constituted will not stand idly by whether succession is legal or otherwise and let it happen.

All the present States (and possibly Puerto Rico) shall all together spin counter-clockwise along with all the attendant paperwork to our collective just deserts.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 10:06 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Boy that was cool. I havent heard tough talk like that since....the last time I was on the Internet.

States rights?! C'mon... There is no such thing as states right anymore. You do what uncle Sam tells you to do and you like it.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 10:42 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Thomas Jefferson said himself that is any state wanted to seperate from the union, then let them seperate. When government is telling you that you have to purchase a retirement plan, then they steal it away the money that you pay into it and put it towards welfare programs, then that government is too big. When government tells you that you that you have to purchase a product, such as healthcare, then that government is too big. When government takes your money and gives it to big banks who made poor business choices (and also donates to politicians campaigns), then that government is too big. When the government gives public money to a private bank (the federal reserve) and gives them the power to bail out foreign banks without congress even knowing about it, that government is too big. When the government can secretly invade your privacy and gut the 4th ammement, then that government is too big. When the government can indefinitely hold American citizens without due process, even assassinate them, then that government is too big.

You can't just "work together to fix" this kind of stuff. We are too divided, we are too big. It's too far gone. It's time to seperate.

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Posted: 11/12/2012 11:00 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


I don't understand the concept of giving up on this country. I don't get it at all. Not after everything it's been through in its young existence. Issues will always exist, some new and some recycled. Is this climate worth throwing around the concept of secession? Do you understand the weight that word carries? Words really do have meaning. If the American government were gunning down its own en masse, if it were shackling us indiscriminately, if the opportunities for a better life were truly dead and if the channels for reigning in an unchecked government were truly closed, we would know it and we would revolt. That is a circumstance whch allows for a secession I not only understand, but encourage. But we don't liive in under such a circumstance. In fact, we live nowhere near it.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 11:23 PM

Re: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


This is by far one of the best debates I've read on MST in a very long time...and I'm being dead serious!
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Posted: 11/12/2012 11:23 PM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Some of you are so focused on government that you fail to consider the ramifications that any state's secession would have on ordinary people and businesses.

Let’s assume this silliness goes forward and Texas secedes (because hey! .001% of Texans signed a petition to secede; obviously it’s the will of the people!) on the day that Obama begins his second term.

Here are some interesting things that may result:

The U.S. southern border, which is presently 1,933.4 miles long (1,241 miles in Texas) will grow by 298.3 miles to 2231.7 miles (the difference between the cumulative lengths of the NM, OK, AR, and LA borders with TX less the TX-Mexico border). Roughly half of this would be a “land” border (i.e., not defined by a river). Presumably, the new independent nation of Texas will take responsibility for erecting miles and miles of border fence. Both nations would have to establish border crossings complete with customs inspection and immigration officers.

Roughly one third of adult Texans were born in another state. They will need to decide whether to move out of Texas to retain U.S. citizenship or renounce their U.S. citizenship and become citizens of the Texas nation-state. U.S. passports issued to Texas citizens will become null and void on the date of secession, so any Texans caught overseas will have a devil of a time getting back home, at least until Texas manages to acquire land and establish embassies in over 100 foreign countries. Texans with family in other states will need visas to visit them and vice versa. Visas will also be needed to attend college and professional sporting events in the other country.

Texans who wish to attend college in the United States will need to apply for a student visa; the same would be true for U.S. citizens wishing to attend college in Texas.

Two major U.S. airlines are headquartered in Texas; a third has it’s largest hub in Texas. Due to regulations regarding international flights and the rights of international vs. domestic airlines, these companies (American, Southwest, and United) would either have to move their headquarters and most of their hub operations out-of-state, or significantly downsize in order to become the “national airline” of Texas. I don’t see stockholders - or airline employees - being very happy at all over this turn of events.

6,253,000 acres of Texas is the property of the U.S. Federal government. Unless it wants to act - and be treated - like Cuba, Texas would have to purchase that land and any buildings and improvements on it at fair market value. With the average price of an acre of land in Texas at $2,150, the land alone is worth at least $13.5 billion. Add to that the cost of structures, mineral rights, etc. and Texans will face a heavy tax burden just to become independent. Big Bend National Park, the Johnson Space Center, and several military installations will drive the cost up astronomically.

Besides the aforementioned airlines, several major U.S. corporations have their headquarters in Texas, including AT&T (Dallas), Bell Helicopter (Hurst), BNSF (Fort Worth), Borden (Dallas), ConocoPhillips (Houston), ExxonMobil (Irving), Greyhound Bus Lines (Dallas), Halliburton (Houston), JCPenney (Plano), Kimberly-Clark (Irving), Pizza Hut (Plano), Radio Shack (Fort Worth), and Shell Oil (Houston). Each of these corporations, especially those with U.S. military and government contracts, would have to consider the ramifications of being headquartered in a foreign country.

Perhaps the citizenry of Texas isn't the smartest in the nation, but I trust that enough of them are smart enough to see that serious financial and employment ramifications would necessarily ensue in the wake of secession - even if it were done with the blessings of the other 49 (or 50 if PR is admitted).

Last edited 11/13/2012 12:03 AM by rockwebmaster

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Posted: 11/13/2012 1:15 AM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


You may be wasting your breath (or perhaps I'm projecting, seeing as how I feel that way). The logistics alone would present a huge practical burden at startup, let alone continuation. The infrastructure, the U.S. military bases, the businesses and colleges and individual citizens alike that are at least partially dependent on federal money for survival -- where would they all go and how would such a transition realistically be processed?

The entire notion is shortsighted. Then again, one should find it unsurprising, considering the source(s).
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Posted: 11/13/2012 5:39 AM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


The ever growing problem in this country and elections, people are tired of the west coast and the northeastern states deciding how the rest of the country should live! This problem keeps growing and growing till it will one day be rejected!
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Posted: 11/13/2012 6:50 AM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 




---------------------------------------------
--- Grahf wrote:

You may be wasting your breath (or perhaps I'm projecting, seeing as how I feel that way). The logistics alone would present a huge practical burden at startup, let alone continuation. The infrastructure, the U.S. military bases, the businesses and colleges and individual citizens alike that are at least partially dependent on federal money for survival -- where would they all go and how would such a transition realistically be processed?

The entire notion is shortsighted. Then again, one should find it unsurprising, considering the source(s).

---------------------------------------------

Tp35812 wrote:

Grahf, the problem with you're comments and opinions is they show you're youth and inexperience! Which is understandable because you probably were not even a pipe dream during the best years this country has ever seen (50's, 60's, and early 70's). Life was good back then, even with the problems this country was experiencing and growing through! The difference today is you have a government that has grown way to big and is controlling everything down to you're last breath! So short of a lot of miracles this country will never realize its greatness again which is so sad especially for people you're age and younger!
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Posted: 11/13/2012 7:14 AM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


Tp35812 wrote:

... the best years this country has ever seen (50's, 60's, and early 70's).

---------------------------------------------

The music was good. Otherwise:

Are.

You.

Serious???

Nostalgia for Korea, Vietnam, and the Cold War, perhaps?
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Posted: 11/13/2012 7:42 AM

RE: 20 States Have Filed Secession Petitions 


It's really a lot worse than people think here. We openly allow the murder of babies through abortion. We detain American citizens and deny them due process if we want to, and actually even assassinate them. The President actually has a "kill list". The federal government can take our money, which is stealing, and give it to people who do not need it. We have been FORCED to pay into a social security program, some longer than others, that was supposed to be there for us when we retire. Instead our government STOLE IT from us, and put towards welfare and other programs. How is that any different than the government coming up to you, taking your wallet out of your pocket and taking what they want, then giving your empty wallet back to you?

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