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Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers

Posted: 6/15/2011 9:52 PM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


Well technically your partly correct...

It is a Illegal pitch, and In high school ball because the balk is a dead ball. In College and pro ball it is a Illegal pitch and if the batter reaches 1st by way of a error or hit, the Illegal pitch is disregarded.. if no the balk will be called..

This is called cause the pitcher is simulating a pitch.

"Losers make excuses, winners make it happen" Gen George Patton

Last edited 6/15/2011 9:52 PM by mazzamouth

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Posted: 6/16/2011 7:57 AM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 



WayOutside wrote:
CalhounLJ wrote:
WayOutside wrote: I was at a game about a week ago and saw an interesting play. The umpire in the game made a call and I am not sure it was the right one. Here's the situation. There were two outs and runners on first and second. The pitcher is in the stretch, comes set and steps back off the rubber. He then throws the ball to the plate where the catcher receives it in his crouched position. The batter doesn't swing. What's the proper NFHS, NCAA and MLB call in a situation like this or is there a call at all?
Can't say about the other two, but in HS ball it's a balk.
Rule 6-2-5
Can you explain your answer? I'm not a high school umpire so why is that a balk? I thought that whenever a pitcher stepped back off the rubber, he became an infielder and could throw the ball anywhere. And what if the batter swings and hits the ball not knowing that the pitcher stepped off?
You are correct in that whenever a pitcher steps off the plate he becomes an infielder, but 6-2-5 trumps the "throw anywhere" segment of your statement. Even though he's off the rubber he is still the pitcher, and he cannot make any movement naturally associated with his pitching motion, including, but not limited to, throwing the ball to the catcher. He also cannot come to the set position, start his windup, look into the catcher to get a sign, etc...
As for the batter hitting the ball, in HS ball, the ball became dead the moment he started the movement naturally associated with the  pitch, so the batter has simply hit a dead ball.
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Posted: 6/24/2011 9:27 PM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


OK, new question


Runner on second and pitcher attempts to pick but does not wheel past the rubber, stops just in front of rubber with almost a slight step toward third and does not throw, what you got???
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Posted: 6/26/2011 6:32 PM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 



southernyankees wrote: OK, new question


Runner on second and pitcher attempts to pick but does not wheel past the rubber, stops just in front of rubber with almost a slight step toward third and does not throw, what you got???
First of all, you got a lot of double talk in the sit. Does he attempt to pick or not? What do you mean by "almost a slight step toward third?" Did he step toward third? Or not?

Maybe this will help - The pitcher does not have to:
1 - Throw the ball to any base other than first. He can fake the ball.
2 - If he does attempt to pick, then he has to step toward the base he is  throwing to. (almost a slight step toward 3rd doesn't count -either he did or didn't. The fan is free to speculate but the umpire must make a decision)
3 - He does not have to "wheel past the rubber" to fake to 2nd. EXAMPLE -he can jump up, turn in midair, fake the ball to second, land in front of the rubber, and it's all good.

Last edited 6/26/2011 6:35 PM by CalhounLJ

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Posted: 2/18/2012 11:13 AM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


I would like a clarification on the malicious contact rule and run scored. In the case book 3.3.1BB ruling (b) the run counts, but in 8.4.2W ruling (a) no run counts . I may be totally missing something, but it sounds contradictory.
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Posted: 2/19/2012 10:26 PM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


3.3.1 situation bb

with no outs, and r1 on second base, b2 hits the ball in the gap, r1 touches and rounds third and heads for home, and initiates malicious contact with f2 a) before touching the plate, or b) after scoring.

ruling: in (a) the ball is dead, the runner is out and ejected for malicious contact. in (b) the run counts, the ball is dead and the runner is ejected for malicious contact. in either case the batter-runner must return to the last legally acquired base at the time of the malicious contact.

in 3.3.1b, the run counts because there were LESS THAN TWO OUTS and the malicious contact did not occur until AFTER the runner had scored.

in 8.4.2W a, although there were less than two outs when the play began, the result of the play, had there been no malicious contact, could possibly have been a double play. R1 is called out because of the illegal contact, and B4 is called out because, had there been no illegal contact, it is at least possible that F2 would have thrown him out. Because the last out was a force out, no run scores.

wcblue wrote: I would like a clarification on the malicious contact rule and run scored. In the case book 3.3.1BB ruling (b) the run counts, but in 8.4.2W ruling (a) no run counts . I may be totally missing something, but it sounds contradictory.

8.4.2 SITUATION W

The bases are loaded with (a), less than two outs, or (b), two outs. B4 hits a ground ball to F4, who throws to F2 for the force out at home. The throw pulls F2 off home plate several steps toward the first-base side. R1, seeing F2 ready to make a play on B4 at first base, touches home plate and maliciously crashes into F2.

RULING: (a) Since this is a force-play SITUATION, R1 and B4 are declared out and no one scores. R1 will be ejected from the game. In (b), R1 will be declared out and ejected for the contact, and no run will score.

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Posted: 2/20/2012 10:09 AM

RE: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


If R1 had already scored in both 3.3.1bb (b) & 8.4.2w(a) when the contact occurred , and the only difference being 8.4.2.w was a force, but according to rule 3.1.n. penalty, it says unless he has already scored , no exception if a force or not.
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Posted: 2/20/2012 10:45 AM

RE: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


I'm assuming you meant 3.3.1n penalty. If that's the case, then remember that 3.3.1 is meant to be taken as a general statement that is true most of the time. That's where the value of the casebook comes in. All the situations in the casebook referring to 3.3.1 testify to the complexity of this rule, particularly in reference to other rules. For example, 9-1-1 exception states that no run can score when the third out is a force out, which is why in the 8.4.2 casebook situation the run does not score. The third out, even though awarded by the umpire, was a force out on B4 going to first. in the 3.3.1bb situation, there was no third out because of a force, therefore, because the runner had already crossed the plate, the run counts.

This is a complicated deal, but I believe I'm right on this.
wcblue wrote: If R1 had already scored in both 3.3.1bb (b) & 8.4.2w(a) when the contact occurred , and the only difference being 8.4.2.w was a force, but according to rule 3.1.n. penalty, it says unless he has already scored , no exception if a force or not.
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Posted: 2/20/2012 2:09 PM

RE: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


That helps alot, but this rule as written and case book examples, are very confusing. A few of our umpires have been discussing this situation, and the discussions have been all over the road. Thanks for your help!!
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:58 PM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


bases loaded, 2 outs bottom 7 game tied. Batter walks but never goes to first base. He proceeds to the dugout, takes his helmet off and never goes to first base. Defensive team appeals that he never went to first. What is the call. He still has yet to touch first and his team packed up and left
GONE BUT NEVER TO BE FORGOTTEN!  
R.I.P.-- Nick Bell

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Posted: 3/27/2012 7:58 AM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 



I'm no umpire but I'd assume the batter is the third out and the run doesn't score bc the guy never made it to first to advance the runner. Kinda like if you have bases loaded a guy gets a hit but never runs to first then run doesn't count. An odd situation for sure I'd like to hear the official ruling.
---------------------------------------------
--- bulldogballa wrote:

bases loaded, 2 outs bottom 7 game tied. Batter walks but never goes to first base. He proceeds to the dugout, takes his helmet off and never goes to first base. Defensive team appeals that he never went to first. What is the call. He still has yet to touch first and his team packed up and left

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 3/27/2012 8:58 AM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


As long as we don't have "time" called, the BR still has the opportunity to touch the base, even if he has gone into the dugout. After time has been called, he doesn't have the right to go out and touch the base, so he would be called out on appeal, and because it is considered a force out, no runs score. Even though his team packed up and left, the umpires still have jurisdiction as long as they haven't left the field. Same scenario as a walk off home run - the bases themselves have not been awarded, only the right to touch the base without liability of being put out has been awarded. If the BR gives up that right, then he can be put out on appeal.
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Posted: 3/27/2012 9:04 AM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 



CalhounLJ wrote: As long as we don't have "time" called, the BR still has the opportunity to touch the base, even if he has gone into the dugout. After time has been called, he doesn't have the right to go out and touch the base, so he would be called out on appeal, and because it is considered a force out, no runs score. Even though his team packed up and left, the umpires still have jurisdiction as long as they haven't left the field. Same scenario as a walk off home run - the bases themselves have not been awarded, only the right to touch the base without liability of being put out has been awarded. If the BR gives up that right, then he can be put out on appeal.
What is the official rule number on this...bc this is the exact scenario we had last night.
GONE BUT NEVER TO BE FORGOTTEN!  
R.I.P.-- Nick Bell

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Posted: 3/27/2012 10:45 PM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


What are the proper mechanics for the field ump at 1st if he sees a batted ball hit the batter's leg before he leaves the batter's box?

Batter hits the ball.  Ball is rolling in fair territory.  batter/runner thrown out at 1st.  Field umpire calls the batter out.  Coach comes out saying the ball went off of the batter's leg.  Home plate ump talks to both field umps.  The one at 1st said ball hit batter in box and was ruled a foul ball.  Is the ump that saw the ball hit the batter in the box not supposed to call the foul ball and raise his hands when he sees it hit the batter.  It just so happened that the same scenario happened in the JV game and the field ump raised his hands and yelled foul ball.  Which is the right mechanics?

BTW the batter got a base hit after being put back in the box, but was left on base at end of the inning, so the call did not really affect the outcome of the game.
 

Last edited 3/27/2012 10:48 PM by ItFitz

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Posted: 3/28/2012 8:10 AM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


the field umpire should call it immediately if he in fact sees it
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Posted: 3/28/2012 3:56 PM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


If I'm on the bases, I always ask the plate guy what he wants me to do in that situation. Technically it's his call to make, but I have always tried to help out when allowed to do so. Some plate guys are kinda territorial and don't want the help. In that case I would do like the base guy in this sit - make my call and let him have it. pirate But if that's the case, then he's got it. He better not come up to me and ask me what I saw, because I'll pull a Sgt. Shultz - "I see NOTHING!!"

in all seriousness, the proper thing to do if the base guy sees the ball go directly from the bat to the leg is both hands in the air, yell, "FOUL."
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Posted: 3/28/2012 9:06 PM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


NT
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Posted: 3/28/2012 9:15 PM

RE: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


Obviously the 1st base umpire had no clue in what he was doing cause after the putout was made at 1st and the batter had returned to the dugout and took his helment off and got him some water the headcoach had a meeting with the 3rd base umpire, then they decided to let 1st base umpire in on the discussion and then he decided it just might have hit him after second thought. Batter obviously didnt think it hit him cause he came out of box a digging.
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Posted: 3/29/2012 9:06 AM

RE: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


Well, before we jump to conclusions, there are a lot of things that could have taken place. In the first place, my coach always taught us to run no matter what, because it could be that nobody saw the ball hit your foot, and you would look like an idiot if you didn't run. Second, the runner did exactly what he was supposed to do by returning to the dugout. Why risk getting tossed by arguing the call or otherwise making a scene? 3rd, why are we picking on the 1B umpire? The guy at 3rd has just as much of a responsibility to make the call immediately if he sees it. It could be that the guy at 3rd saw it, choked and didn't make the call, then when the HC confronted him, saved face by asking the other guy. It's happened before.noidea In fact, the conversation could have gone like this: U3 toU1 - "Did you see the ball his his foot?" U1 to U3 - I thought it hit something, but wasn't sure if it was the plate or the foot, so I let it go." U3 to U1 - "Well, I'm pretty sure it hit the foot, but I didn't call it." "Whatcha gonna do?" "Plate guy chimes in - I heard it hit something, probably was the foot. We better call it a foul ball."
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Posted: 3/29/2012 9:10 AM

Re: Rules and Interpretations: Question and answers 


No one particular rule will solve this problem. The solution comes from 22 years of studying rules, casebook sits, and literally thousands of discussions over the years.
bulldogballa wrote:
CalhounLJ wrote: As long as we don't have "time" called, the BR still has the opportunity to touch the base, even if he has gone into the dugout. After time has been called, he doesn't have the right to go out and touch the base, so he would be called out on appeal, and because it is considered a force out, no runs score. Even though his team packed up and left, the umpires still have jurisdiction as long as they haven't left the field. Same scenario as a walk off home run - the bases themselves have not been awarded, only the right to touch the base without liability of being put out has been awarded. If the BR gives up that right, then he can be put out on appeal.
What is the official rule number on this...bc this is the exact scenario we had last night.
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