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Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion talks

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Posted: 1/24/2013 10:14 AM

Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion talks 


This from Chip Brown, who covers Texas.  It's long been said when Texas wants something to be known, they leak it through Chip Brown.  It's an interesting read because it confirms the differences of opinions among Big 12 AD's on the issue of expansion.  Monday and Tuesday will be interesting.

"We can't continue to monitor things," one high-ranking source at a Big 12 school said Wednesday. "If you monitor, you get passed by. We have to have our own game plan so we aren't reacting any longer.

Draw your own conclusions:

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1463673

Last edited 1/24/2013 10:16 AM by l6ozbud

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Posted: 1/24/2013 11:27 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion Post Rating (3 votes)


Commissioner Bowlsby made the philosphy clear during his interview yesterday " $300 million dollars splits a lot nicer 10 ways than 12 ways."


l6ozbud wrote: This from Chip Brown, who covers Texas.  It's long been said when Texas wants something to be known, they leak it through Chip Brown.  It's an interesting read because it confirms the differences of opinions among Big 12 AD's on the issue of expansion.  Monday and Tuesday will be interesting.

"We can't continue to monitor things," one high-ranking source at a Big 12 school said Wednesday. "If you monitor, you get passed by. We have to have our own game plan so we aren't reacting any longer.

Draw your own conclusions:

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1463673
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Posted: 1/24/2013 11:43 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 


Very true, which is why the "who" to add matters a ton.  Adding 2 teams and thus a CCG will trigger renegotiations, even if just for the CCG.  I imagine they are going to attempt to come to a consensus on where to draw the line to initiate expansion.  There will probably be much gnashing of teeth on Monday/Tuesday, I just hope they can hurry up and put it all to bed one way or another.
ronbcat wrote: Commissioner Bowlsby made the philosphy clear during his interview yesterday " $300 million dollars splits a lot nicer 10 ways than 12 ways."


l6ozbud wrote: This from Chip Brown, who covers Texas.  It's long been said when Texas wants something to be known, they leak it through Chip Brown.  It's an interesting read because it confirms the differences of opinions among Big 12 AD's on the issue of expansion.  Monday and Tuesday will be interesting.

"We can't continue to monitor things," one high-ranking source at a Big 12 school said Wednesday. "If you monitor, you get passed by. We have to have our own game plan so we aren't reacting any longer.

Draw your own conclusions:

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1463673
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Posted: 1/24/2013 11:44 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 


One thing you're missing though is that they need to play a certain amount of defense via offense. That is, they realize they cannot sit on their present model for the long haul. The B1G and SEC will continue to poach and expand and the Big12 does not want to get left with no options out there to "get."

Yes they are making a lot of money today and the incentive to expand may not presently sit in front of them, but they will be left at the station if they sit idle over time. There is nothing magical nor a stop sign at 16 teams for any conference. If the B1G can control one of 2 or 3 national, major conferences with 24 teams and 3 divisions, they will ultimately do it.

One friend of mine (Pac12 connections) thinks that we may be headed to a 1x60 super conference separated from the NCAA. A sort of pseudo-pro (but college) football league. Don't laugh, it's not gonna happen soon, but its plausible.

With no conference or university really knowing how this plays out, they will all play defense by offense to protect their own interests over time. I have said many times that the Pac12 doesn't want to expand....but I guarantee you they are strategizing about how to expand should they need too in order to survive.

Sitting on their hands contributed mightily to the demise of the Big East. I say there is no way the Big12 stands pat much longer.

Last edited 1/24/2013 7:28 PM by CardinalX3

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Posted: 1/25/2013 12:57 AM

RE: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" 


Assuming they are inaccurate, I actually wonder if the realignment rumors could hurt the Big 12, by possibly giving presidents and athletic directors false hope of getting the best ACC football brands-and thereby dissuading them from improving the conference. 14 is apparently the new conference standard, and the Big 12 is willing to risk not even having the previous standard (of 12)-with a conference championship game-when the Champions Bowl and new playoff format arrive? The Big 12 will likely be compared to the SEC, by commentators and analysts, during the Champions Bowl. Not having even 12 members, a conference championship game, and/or multiple elite recruiting states will likely hurt the confetence's public perception.

The Big East had fewer members than the standard of 12; 4 below, at 8. The Big 12 is now 4 below the standard, at 10. No Conference Championship Game. And, the round-robin has probably hurt the rankings of the best teams in both conferences. And, a limited or very regional footprint. Big East football was largely contained to the Northeast and a part of the southeastern Midwest-although it had a Florida team, thereby helping the footprint some. The Big 12 is largely contained, with a small population and media footprint-in Texas, the Great Plains, and West Virginia. I actually see more dangerous similarities between the Big 12 and Big East than the ACC and Big East.

Last edited 1/25/2013 1:02 AM by FloridaBull

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Posted: 1/25/2013 1:03 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 



CardinalX3 wrote:

One friend of mine (Pac12 connections) thinks that we may be headed to a 1x60 super conference separated from the NCAA. A sort of pseudo-pro (but college) football league. Don't laugh, it's not gonna happen soon, but its plausible.

Don't rule out how close to that we are.  Say the ACC gets ripped apart next week and is no longer viewed as a major conference.  We would have 4 power conference that feed into 2 major access bowls.  Most years would have basically an 8 team playoff from those conferences and no one else.  What would then stop them from scheduling restrictions to further keep the money amongst themselves?  As much as many hated the BCS, myself included, it was probably the most equitable system we were going to get.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 1:13 AM

RE: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" 


I know some claim the Big 12 can and should wait for the cows to come home, hoping to get ACC teams to arrive. But, if it is apparent ACC teams are not pursuing Big 12 membership almost ASAP, the Big 12 may need to be pragmatic, and accept schools like the University of South Florida and Cincinnati. Of course, a rebuttal is that the Big 12 can wait to pick Big East teams later. But, with the 27 month waiting period, it hurts the potential additions and conference to wait too long-as a buyout will get more expensive, the longer the Big 12 waits.

Last edited 1/25/2013 1:16 AM by FloridaBull

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Posted: 1/25/2013 5:52 AM

RE: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" Post Rating (2 votes)


If I am the Big 12 I add these schools to get to 12 and then I stand pat for a while:

1. BYU - HUGE following and very good athletics. BYU is an independent at the moment and is hoping for a PAC-12 invitation.

2. South Florida - Gets the Big 12 a presence in one of the fastest growing States in the Union.

Down the line I think the Big 12 should look at schools like Boise State, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Houston, Nevada, UNLV, and Air Force. But they should only go beyond 12 if the revenue projections turn out to be true.

I don't think 14 is a magic number. But having a conference championship game is going to be a requirement for getting to sit at the Big table.

Where are we now with the Big 5 conferences:

1. PAC-12 - 12 schools
2. SEC      - 14 schools
3. BIG 10  - 14 schools
4. ACC      - 14 schools
5. Big 12   - 10 schools

Add that all together and you have the top 64 schools. So right now the Big 5; as currently constituted; could break away and set up this new Division 1+ with 64 teams and tell the NCAA to stick it.

The could set up an 8 team playoff with 5 automatic bids and 3 at large bids to be shared between these 5 leagues. TV would love that!!!

If you ended up with 5 conferences; each with 16 teams; that is 80 schools. Right now about 120 schools play D-1 football. And there are over 300 that play D-1 basketball. (Don't you think the top 80 schools are a little tired of sharing this B-ball revenue with schools that only play D-1 basketball and nothing else?)

Just because some blogger at ESPN can multiple 4x16 and get 64 doesn't mean we are going to 4 super conferences. When politics, history, and money are all on the line; things don't typically end up the way the so called "experts" think they will. When you have that combination things NEVER move in a straight line.

I think the idea that the top 64 or say top 80 D-1 schools decide to leave the NCAA and form a new organization is quite likely. But the number of conferences that contain those 64 to 80 teams doesn't have to be just 4 to make that happen.

Football may be driving the bus now in terms of expansion. But when the top 64 or top 80 figure out that their per school revenues for basketball could go WAY UP by making this move; the priority will be for those top 64/80 schools as currently constituted to break away and form this new super D1 organization.

The latest CBS contract for the NCAA tournament is 11 Billion Dollars. Imagine sharing that 80 ways instead of 300 ways. If it is truly about the Benjamins, well that is one huge stack of money right there!!!

(Yes even schools that don't make it to the tournament get a check.)

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mens basketball/2010-04-22-ncaa-tournament-cbs-turner-a greement_N.htm
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Posted: 1/25/2013 7:40 AM

RE: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" 


Sorry, I just don't see South Florida as a viable expansion candidate over us and many other schools.  They play in an off-campus NFL stadium and have little to no history.  Do you really think people in Florida are going to give a crap about South Florida if they were in the Big 12?  Not to mention you are just adding another school on an island that is thousands of miles away from its closest school and the same thing can be said about BYU.

I'm not buying that idea.

EDIT: To your point on the NCAA tourney basketball contract.  No way is a 64-80 team tournament of the major football schools worth 11 billion dollars.  A ton of those schools have absolutely horrendous basketball programs.  TCU, Washington State, Georgia Tech, BC, Clemson, Texas Tech, Rutgers, Penn State, Nebraska, Iowa, Utah, and half of the SEC are just plain bad at hoopsketball.  No one will want to watch them play in a tournament.

Another one of the reasons people watch the tourney is because of the Cinderella teams making a run and knocking off the big boys i.e. a VCU or Butler making a run to the Final Four.  You completely lose that by excluding the "small" schools from the pot and not to mention you also lose a vast majority of the good programs in the country.  What happens to Memphis, Xavier, Georgetown, Villanova etc after this so called split?  They have basketball followings that rival most schools football followings and you just want to completely cut them out?  Not going to happen.

Last edited 1/25/2013 7:49 AM by Ghostdad

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Posted: 1/25/2013 8:14 AM

RE: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" Post Rating (3 votes)



unc4life wrote: If I am the Big 12 I add these schools to get to 12 and then I stand pat for a while:

1. BYU - HUGE following and very good athletics. BYU is an independent at the moment and is hoping for a PAC-12 invitation.

2. South Florida - Gets the Big 12 a presence in one of the fastest growing States in the Union.

Down the line I think the Big 12 should look at schools like Boise State, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Houston, Nevada, UNLV, and Air Force. But they should only go beyond 12 if the revenue projections turn out to be true.

Wow, an ACC guy talking Big 12 expansion and talking about leaving Cincinnati out on the Cincinnati board.  Don't get me wrong, it's a valid opinion.  As good as anyone's regarding this mysterious topic, but to say that here is a douche move.  If that's your opinion, share it elsewhere.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 9:06 AM

RE: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" 


Why would the Big12 add USF? There are much bigger fish to fry out of Florida.

You are assuming that the Big12 couldn't lure away FSU or U of Miami which they could, likely will and may have already, done.

The Big12 will most likely act proactively by adding FSU, Uof Miami and Clemson and one other university, to accomplish simultaneously the emasculation of their rival, the ACC, in conference realignment and strengthening the Big12 football brand.

USF and UCF are two Florida schools a conference would consider adding to have a hand in the Florida market/recruiting only if they can't get one of the more established programs.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 9:20 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 


Perhaps this is a separate topic for another thread, but this morning on the radio I heard that cable rates are expected to soon jump significantly, and it won't be the cable company's fault. 

Whose fault will it be?

The networks themselves will be at fault due to the rise in the cost of programming.  ESPN was specifically mentioned as one of the main culprits.

The tag on the end of this story was that consumers need to be aware of these charges and make decisions regarding their television needs.

This got me to thinking what the tipping point would be.  At what point do people stop paying more for television, and when does the well run dry? 

ESPN apparently thinks the well is deep and consumers will continue to pay and ESPN can afford to spend exhorbitant amounts of money to college athletic conferences for the rights to air their games.

I view the rise in cable costs as a warning flag.  If conferences are going to realign and stake their claim, do it now before the bubble bursts.

Last edited 1/25/2013 9:22 AM by sluggur1

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Posted: 1/25/2013 10:02 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 


What will be interesting is the day when the cable providers simply move ESPN to a PPV status or at least off the more basic packages OR flatly refusing the rate hikes.
If a comcast or a Time Warner started that it would really hit them in the pants.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 10:06 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 



sluggur1 wrote: Perhaps this is a separate topic for another thread, but this morning on the radio I heard that cable rates are expected to soon jump significantly, and it won't be the cable company's fault. 

Whose fault will it be?

The networks themselves will be at fault due to the rise in the cost of programming.  ESPN was specifically mentioned as one of the main culprits.

The tag on the end of this story was that consumers need to be aware of these charges and make decisions regarding their television needs.

This got me to thinking what the tipping point would be.  At what point do people stop paying more for television, and when does the well run dry? 

ESPN apparently thinks the well is deep and consumers will continue to pay and ESPN can afford to spend exhorbitant amounts of money to college athletic conferences for the rights to air their games.

I view the rise in cable costs as a warning flag.  If conferences are going to realign and stake their claim, do it now before the bubble bursts.
Funny I was just thinking about this recently.  I heard a couple months ago that for the first time ever DirectTV was losing customers.  I think in this current economy we are right at the tipping point.  I suspect if prices get jacked all the providers will start bleeding customers, or at least levels of service.  The idea of a cafeteria style of service has been mentioned in the past, where a cable customer could pick and choose their programming at the channel level, rather than the standard package deals they have now.  What would that do to the ESPN model, and therefore this conference realignment mess?  Seems market size would remain an obvious consideration, but maybe mean not as many $$$ as in the past?
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Posted: 1/25/2013 10:09 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 


Cable in itself is becoming obsolete.  More and more people are dropping cable completely in favor of just watching their TV via Hulu and Netflix.  I know the only reason that I have cable currently is because of ESPN and live sports in general.  If my cable provider were to drop that then I would just cut my cable subscription all together.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 10:12 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 



bearcatvol wrote: What will be interesting is the day when the cable providers simply move ESPN to a PPV status or at least off the more basic packages OR flatly refusing the rate hikes.
If a comcast or a Time Warner started that it would really hit them in the pants.
I think the point here is that the possibility exists that this day exists and may be coming.  ESPN seems to think people won't give up their sports and cable providers will cut other things in order to keep sports.  That may be true. 

I'm sure I'm like many who already feel they pay too much for television and aren't willing to pay more. 

Of course, there will be a time sooner rather than later where technology will advance to the point that colleges can do their own thing independent of networks and broadcast at their own whims and ESPN will be irrelevant. 

Anyway, I see the significant potential for some future chaos in the whole funding structure of college sports.  Get in a good conference and lock in those contracts now!
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Posted: 1/25/2013 10:17 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion Post Rating (1 vote)


Time Warner will not put ESPN on a pay sports tier because of competition from DISH and Direct TV who will continue to provide it as part of their basic package. The Big Ten Network and the NFL Network got on Time Warner because TWC was losing customers to Direct and Dish.

The idea of al a carte programing has been out there for a while, you chose what channels of the 500 being offered you want and only pay for those 20 or so, not the 480 you do not want. Lowering your cable bill is not exactly what the cable companies want to happen.


bearcatvol wrote: What will be interesting is the day when the cable providers simply move ESPN to a PPV status or at least off the more basic packages OR flatly refusing the rate hikes.
If a comcast or a Time Warner started that it would really hit them in the pants.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 10:23 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 



ronbcat wrote: Time Warner will not put ESPN on a pay sports tier because of competition from DISH and Direct TV who will continue to provide it as part of their basic package. The Big Ten Network and the NFL Network got on Time Warner because TWC was losing customers to Direct and Dish.

The idea of al a carte programing has been out there for a while, you chose what channels of the 500 being offered you want and only pay for those 20 or so, not the 480 you do not want. Lowering your cable bill is not exactly what the cable companies want to happen.


bearcatvol wrote: What will be interesting is the day when the cable providers simply move ESPN to a PPV status or at least off the more basic packages OR flatly refusing the rate hikes.
If a comcast or a Time Warner started that it would really hit them in the pants.

Ron, Perhaps I didn't state this as clearly as I could have.
There is an industry wide discussion that ESPN eventually will become similar to HBO of Showtime once rates reach a certain amount.

Jointly there is also a lot of discussion that eventually major events like the Super Bowl some of the major college bowls will become PPV events.
Will it happen?
Don't know.
Possible? Very.

Last edited 1/25/2013 10:25 AM by bearcatvol

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Posted: 1/25/2013 10:25 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 


A major reason TWC is losing customers is because it is listed as one of the worst companies when it comes to customer service.  Sure, ESPN not being basic would probably effect their subscription numbers but TWC's problems go way beyond that.
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Posted: 1/25/2013 10:47 AM

Re: Big 12 AD's to have "philosophical" expansion 



Ghostdad wrote: A major reason TWC is losing customers is because it is listed as one of the worst companies when it comes to customer service.  Sure, ESPN not being basic would probably effect their subscription numbers but TWC's problems go way beyond that.
Again, sorry to be off topic, but let me give you another reason:  AT&T Uverse.  It's all wireless.  I can move my tv's wherever I want and not be constrained to a cable outlet.  If I want to watch the game in the sunroom, no problem.  If I want to take it out to the patio, no problem.  If I want to switch bedrooms, or maybe put one in the kitchen, no problem.  If I want to put it on the other side of the room, no problem.  I just move the tv and the box and connect the two.

I made the mistake of going with TW after a recent move.  I live in a sprawling Cape Cod and wanted cable in opposite ends of the house.  I'm not kidding when I tell you TW was in my house installing from late afternoon until after ONE IN THE MORNING.  They drilled holes all over the place and now I have ugly wires running freaking everywhere, which was a bitch when I painted the exterior of my house just a month later.

Bought the premier package where customer service would tend to my every need.  Ha.

A month later switched to Uverse and haven't looked back.  Wish I knew about them before TW defaced my house.  I so regret ever dealing with TW.

I don't know how they stay competitive.  The installation costs compared to Uverse have to be quite significant.  Having "Cable" in their name demonstrates they are way behind the times.

(Full disclosure: I'm actually not the one who made the decision to go with TW.)

Last edited 1/25/2013 11:00 AM by sluggur1

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