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Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
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Posted: 11/19/2012 6:44 PM
Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
That we've finally snuffed out back-to-back victories (the first such streak during his tenure) doesn't change my opinion one bit that Enos needs to go. Unfortunately, that there is a two-game streak and the possibility of a third means there's a sign of improvement (at least, if you see the world through rose-colored glasses) and a potential bowl bid (thanks to perfect planetary alignment in the bowl picture), meaning there's seemingly legitimate reason to keep DE around another year.
And though I'm no doubt wasting my breath in saying this, I point out the irrefutable other numbers:
Attendance is in the pits.
Donations are dropping like a rock.
Victories are still outnumbered by defeats nearly three to one.
I love my team, but I loathe what Enos is doing to it. If he's on the sidelines next year, I won't be in the stands. And my money won't be heading north, either. Three years, and the best we can show for it is a .500 season? No thanks.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:12 AM
RE: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
Don't let the door hit you on the way out Cabo.
PROUD TO BE A CHIPPEWA
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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:29 AM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
Cabo, with respect, you said more than once that you didn't see more than two wins on the schedule this year. So the fact that we've already won five with an excellent chance at six is meaningless, relative to your prediction? If the team were to win out secure a bowl berth, and play well in that bowl, would that make a difference in your mind? Just trying to figure out where you're coming from here. |
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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:38 AM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
Support the team...fire the coach!
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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:42 AM
RE: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
cmu70 wrote: Don't let the door hit you on the way out Cabo. That's a great attitude to have 70...that's the attitude that will create vacant seats, and decreased donations. You have limited product to sell, fewer buyers by the day, and you're running people off. Just puff out your chest and boast that 'you told us we could win 1/2 our games..."we're # 8, We're # 8"... Amazing  |
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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:50 AM
RE: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
Row...When you become the HC for the Chips, you'll appreciate guys like 70.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 11:51 AM
RE: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
Chippsfan wrote:
Row...When you become the HC for the Chips, you'll appreciate guys like 70. I'd ban him from the stadium! |
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Posted: 11/20/2012 12:18 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
Dang Row, that's harsh. If I'm struggling, I'd love to have a guy like 70 in my corner.
Good thing about both of you is........bottom line, you both just want the Chips to be successful.
I just hope we can pull off this last win and get a bowl bid. And if we won that, that would do wonders for these kids coming back next year. That would be a great motivator for next season.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 1:04 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
The MAC has shown time and again that good coaches -- Brian Kelly, Urban Meyer, Butch Jones, Jerry Kill, Terry Hoeppner -- usually have great success within in three years because there are no Super Powers that can't be overthrown and coaching-turnover levels the playing field. Many of those coaches started with programs worse than what Dan Enos inherited and turned them around right away.
Then you have guys like Bill Cubit who are mediocre and you lose an entire decade unable to "pull the trigger" and fire the guy because it A) costs money and B) fan bases in the MAC are usually lethargic and it takes a really, really bad season for them to put pressure on the university and Cubit, to his credit, never had any really bad teams just as he never had any good teams.
Then you have the mistakes; guys like Stan Parrish who never in million years should have been allowed to make an executive decision in the wake of his performance at Kansas State, a guy who couldn't lead the 85' Bears to a MAC Championship (The "Stanimal" did crush Enos at home after losing to Liberty.) and those guys you have to buyout and fire right away because they will hurt your brand for decades to come.
Dan Enos is probably closer to Cubit judging from the fact that after such an abysmal performance, buoyed only because the Football Gods put six cup-cakes on the schedule this year (which he barely beat by the way) that many of you are content with his faux progress. So, based on what I am seeing, CMU is about enter it's "lost decade." The good news is that we are 1/3 the way through it, only 7 years to go until we hopefully hire the next Brian Kelly.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 1:15 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
Row , you say support the team but fire the coach. How does boycotting games and withholding $$ support the team? There are other way to get your message across to Heeke and the administration a about Enos. But I will tell you this , they are all in with Enos at this point and they DO understand the plan in building this program that Enos has in place. They are also going to give him ample time to achieve that plan. So while eveyone wants to fire Enos , I choose to support the team as if we were winning at this point and hope that Enos is indeed successful im the next year and after.
PROUD TO BE A CHIPPEWA
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Posted: 11/20/2012 2:07 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
So what you really mean to say is the stats that look good are meaningless but the ones that agree with your position are the ones that count.
Back-to-back wins - True
Likely get to .500 - True
Likely to become bowl eligible - True
But lets ignore those.
Attendance dropping - True and discomforting. However, did you realize that in our record setting 2009 season the attendance for LeFevour's last home game was 15,113? Twice what we had last weekend but still not great for the best CMU team to play during my decade plus here.
Donations dropping like a rock - Do you have a source for this? Or is it based on the handful of people that post on this forum? Not saying you're wrong, just the first time I've heard that.
Victories out numbered 3-1 by defeats - True, no getting around that.
I think there are very few fans that are happy with where the program is today. Is 6-6 a successful season? Not really, and if so it's minimal at best. Is it an improvement over his last 2 seasons? Sure. BUT, he needs to keep improving, this will not be a "young team" next year.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 2:08 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
Okay, 70...so let's just go down a hypothetical situation and say that next year does not go well for us...3 -9 or a 4-8, then what? You say that they understand Enos' plan and are all in. Are they still in after a struggling season next year in your estimation? Just curious... |
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Posted: 11/20/2012 2:23 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
cmu70 wrote: Row , you say support the team but fire the coach. How does boycotting games and withholding $$ support the team? There are other way to get your message across to Heeke and the administration a about Enos. But I will tell you this , they are all in with Enos at this point and they DO understand the plan in building this program that Enos has in place. They are also going to give him ample time to achieve that plan. So while eveyone wants to fire Enos , I choose to support the team as if we were winning at this point and hope that Enos is indeed successful im the next year and after. If what you say is true and Heeke is "all-in" with Enos, I hope Heeke realizes that when you go "all-in" and you lose the hand, you're done. Is Heeke willing to get up from the table if Enos doesn't work out? I have no problem when people make mistakes, everyone does at one point or another. The key is to recognize your mistakes ASAP, and then correct them. We can argue until we're blue in the face on whether hiring Enos was a mistake, but at the end of the day, it better not take Heeke 5 years to figure out that this was a mistake. If it does his seat will be as hot as Enos'.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 2:28 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
91Chips wrote: Okay, 70...so let's just go down a hypothetical situation and say that next year does not go well for us...3 -9 or a 4-8, then what? You say that they understand Enos' plan and are all in. Are they still in after a struggling season next year in your estimation? Just curious... I've asked this question before and never gotten a straight answer. At what point would 70 and this administration concede that Enos' isn't the guy for the job. What if he goes 3-9 again next year, and then 5-7 the year after for instance? How long does he get? What if in year 5 or 6 he's still struggling to get bowl eligible and failing to compete for the MAC West? If you are going to give him 5 or 6 years to build this program, does he need to have championship caliber teams in year six? Or does mediocre 6-6ish teams cut it?
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Posted: 11/20/2012 3:02 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
eich41 wrote:
cmu70 wrote: Row , you say support the team but fire the coach. How does boycotting games and withholding $$ support the team? There are other way to get your message across to Heeke and the administration a about Enos. But I will tell you this , they are all in with Enos at this point and they DO understand the plan in building this program that Enos has in place. They are also going to give him ample time to achieve that plan. So while eveyone wants to fire Enos , I choose to support the team as if we were winning at this point and hope that Enos is indeed successful im the next year and after. If what you say is true and Heeke is "all-in" with Enos, I hope Heeke realizes that when you go "all-in" and you lose the hand, you're done. Is Heeke willing to get up from the table if Enos doesn't work out?
I have no problem when people make mistakes, everyone does at one point or another. The key is to recognize your mistakes ASAP, and then correct them. We can argue until we're blue in the face on whether hiring Enos was a mistake, but at the end of the day, it better not take Heeke 5 years to figure out that this was a mistake. If it does his seat will be as hot as Enos'. I'm curious how much of a say Heeke has in all of this. Especially with EZ being bought out. I'm pretty sure he has to get the OK from the President, maybe even the BoT.
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Posted: 11/20/2012 3:52 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
If he can't get above 500 by year four, there will be no year five. In fact the buyout is minimal after year three and only 100k more than at ANY time he departs.
"Okay, 70...so let's just go down a hypothetical situation and say that next year does not go well for us...3 -9 or a 4-8, then what? You say that they understand Enos' plan and are all in. Are they still in after a struggling season next year in your estimation? Just curious...:
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Posted: 11/20/2012 6:23 PM
Re: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
CMUprof wrote: So what you really mean to say is the stats that look good are meaningless but the ones that agree with your position are the ones that count.
Back-to-back wins - True
Likely get to .500 - True
Likely to become bowl eligible - True
But lets ignore those.
Attendance dropping - True and discomforting. However, did you realize that in our record setting 2009 season the attendance for LeFevour's last home game was 15,113? Twice what we had last weekend but still not great for the best CMU team to play during my decade plus here.
It seems people want to post comparisons to 2009 in an attempt to make this season look better, but it has the opposite effect on me. CMUprof is fair and accurate in his statement on attendance, but since it's another 2009 comparison I have to say . . . It is true that we had "only" 15,113 for DL's last home game, but the MAC was wrapped up before we took the field that day (against the second place team), and many had already planned to attend the MAC championship game at Ford field - I think we had a pretty good turnout there. Remember too it was our lowest attendance of that season, and the weather was a good 10 degrees colder than it was for us last Saturday. While our attendance has never been great, that smallest crowd of 2009 was larger than our turnout on a beautiful homecoming Saturday this year. The only 2009 comparison I really care about is number of wins, but unless we can change the schedule and play Akron, UMASS and EMU four games each next year, we will have some difficulty getting to 12 wins. Sorry prof, but I think I have "2009-comparison fatigue" |
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Posted: 11/21/2012 4:20 PM
RE: Stats Don't Lie: Enos = FAIL
I would say that they will give him the chance to get one more maybe even two more recruiting classes of his into the program. By then his first (just just sophmores this year will be seniors and in the program for four years. With that in place they will expect Enos to be winning Division and MAC Championships. That is what I expect in the next year or two as well. I hope that answers your questions. It might not be what you want to hear but i think a 7-5 or 8-5 season and a bowl game next year buys him another and that year I see us competing for the MAC Championship. I can only guess that Mr. Heeke's time table might look very similar.
PROUD TO BE A CHIPPEWA
Last edited 11/21/2012 4:20 PM by cmu70
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