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Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013

Posted: 1/6/2013 10:24 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


I am not sure the debate should be about 2013 versus 2014.  Many of the highly touted prospects (Miller, Rosenthal, Taveras, Wong, and Adams) should all play some role in St. Louis this season. 

I believe it should be expected that some of the team's more senior members (Furcal, Beltran, Carpenter) are likely to miss time.   Others like Descalso and Garcia may lose time to inadequate performance or injury.  However, there is no doubt that there will be significant turnover in the roster for 2014. 

There is also no doubt that this off-season has been very boring.  I am with the crowd that thinks the Cardinals have been remiss in not dealing with the MI question.  However, the team shouldn't make a trade to just make a trade.  I am one that likes Cabrera but I sure as heck wouldn't trade Lynn, Kelly, Carpenter, M., and one more to acquire him.  That was the speculated price earlier in the fall.  I suspect the Astros would want something involving three similar pieces for Lowrie.

Every team knows that the Cardinals have a stacked minor league system and they want to get their hands on the prospects (ready or near ready).  I don't blame Mo for not bowing to their wishes. 

One last thing.  It's only January 6th.  I still believe the Cardinals will address the MI question if at all possible.  I actually hope they sign the Cuban SS Diaz.  That would be the best solution because the team could keep its prospects for another day - i.e. the trade deadline this summer.
KBoyer14HOF
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Posted: 1/7/2013 6:58 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


If you want quality, you have to give up quality.  Teams aren't going to give us their good players for our bad ones.  If we want Andrus or Cabrera we're going to have to give up some good prospects.
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Posted: 1/7/2013 8:26 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



Jmodene1 wrote: If you want quality, you have to give up quality.  Teams aren't going to give us their good players for our bad ones.  If we want Andrus or Cabrera we're going to have to give up some good prospects.
Did someone suggest otherwise?

BTW, for those still drooling over Stanton, the Marlins beat writer for the Miami Herald spoke with the team and they say they are not moving him.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter

Posted: 1/7/2013 9:59 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



Domeboys wrote: The P-D reports the Cardinals plan to be among the clubs watching Cubans Aledmys Diaz and Dariel Alvarez work out. Obviously, that is still a long way from making any offers.





Anyone hear how this went?

Which teams sent scouts?
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Posted: 1/7/2013 11:52 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


im interested as well... has any team reported on it?  i believe i read the Twins were watching as well
PadsFS wrote:
Domeboys wrote: The P-D reports the Cardinals plan to be among the clubs watching Cubans Aledmys Diaz and Dariel Alvarez work out. Obviously, that is still a long way from making any offers.





Anyone hear how this went?

Which teams sent scouts?

Posted: 1/7/2013 12:36 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



bjtut wrote:
nathanleopoldjr wrote: The Cardinals are not going to do any trading.  They'll weather this year, watch the Reds win the division and then start rebuilding next year. 2014 will see a slew of league minimum players on the roster and they'll develop in time and then the Cardinals can win again.   But not 2013.
I may agree with you that there may not be any trades at least immediately  if it means trading more than they want. The Cardinals are far from rebuilding mode though. They have a strong farm system again which I'd imagine they don't want to desecrate for the sake of making a trade. They have been competetive for a long time and that is for a good reason. They mix vets with youngsters. I am for adding a stud like Stanton but not by foolishness. Last but not least I believe alot of people are giving the Reds a little too much credit. It wasn't too long ago the Cards were heavy Favorites to win division after a strong season and it didn't happen. Names on paper are just that. Nothing more. If that is all it took the Yankees would of never lost and the Angels would of killed everyone last yr. That is why you play the games.  I believe the Cards and Reds will be neck and neck this yr. and as far as next yr. goes I can only see the Cards being better
I think the Cardinals have made it clear they are set for 2013 and I'm glad.  That Stanton trade would be ridiculous.  We have plenty of excellent talent so hold onto it and use it.  I'm not criticizing the Cardinals for not making trades I am complimenting them.  Of course they are in rebuilding.  Carpenter, Furcal, Beltran and Westbrook are all gone after 2013 and that will make the team decidedly younger.  That is good.  As for 2013-forget it. There is no way the Cardinals will stay with the Reds.  2013 is a bridge year to 2014 when the new, younger Cardinals will take the field.
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:01 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



PadsFS wrote:
Domeboys wrote: The P-D reports the Cardinals plan to be among the clubs watching Cubans Aledmys Diaz and Dariel Alvarez work out. Obviously, that is still a long way from making any offers.

Anyone hear how this went?

Which teams sent scouts?
According to MLB.com, the event has been pushed back until the end of January. At least 10 teams have expressed strong interest in Diaz, says Jesse Sanchez.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter

Posted: 1/7/2013 2:21 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


They may be in a rebuilding year, but they still have a chance to win the wild card and maybe the Division. They are at least five games better with the bullpen they have now compared to what they had for the first half of last year. If Carpenter comes back to win 12 - 15 games, if Wainwright comes all the way back, if Westbrook pitches his game effectively, and if Garcia/Kelly/Rosenthal can win 12 - 15 games..........and if Furcal can stay healthy for at least half of the year, and if
Greg Garcia/Jackson/middle infield via trade can be effective, and if Beltran can do what he did last year, and if etc., then we can win the Division and possibly more. None of these 'ifs' are unrealistic even though there are a lot of them. But there is one more 'if' that I see. If things don't go well for the Cardinals, they could be battling the Brewers for third place.
nathanleopoldjr wrote:
bjtut wrote:
nathanleopoldjr wrote: The Cardinals are not going to do any trading.  They'll weather this year, watch the Reds win the division and then start rebuilding next year. 2014 will see a slew of league minimum players on the roster and they'll develop in time and then the Cardinals can win again.   But not 2013.
I may agree with you that there may not be any trades at least immediately  if it means trading more than they want. The Cardinals are far from rebuilding mode though. They have a strong farm system again which I'd imagine they don't want to desecrate for the sake of making a trade. They have been competetive for a long time and that is for a good reason. They mix vets with youngsters. I am for adding a stud like Stanton but not by foolishness. Last but not least I believe alot of people are giving the Reds a little too much credit. It wasn't too long ago the Cards were heavy Favorites to win division after a strong season and it didn't happen. Names on paper are just that. Nothing more. If that is all it took the Yankees would of never lost and the Angels would of killed everyone last yr. That is why you play the games.  I believe the Cards and Reds will be neck and neck this yr. and as far as next yr. goes I can only see the Cards being better
I think the Cardinals have made it clear they are set for 2013 and I'm glad.  That Stanton trade would be ridiculous.  We have plenty of excellent talent so hold onto it and use it.  I'm not criticizing the Cardinals for not making trades I am complimenting them.  Of course they are in rebuilding.  Carpenter, Furcal, Beltran and Westbrook are all gone after 2013 and that will make the team decidedly younger.  That is good.  As for 2013-forget it. There is no way the Cardinals will stay with the Reds.  2013 is a bridge year to 2014 when the new, younger Cardinals will take the field.
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Posted: 1/7/2013 2:22 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



Domeboys wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
Domeboys wrote: The P-D reports the Cardinals plan to be among the clubs watching Cubans Aledmys Diaz and Dariel Alvarez work out. Obviously, that is still a long way from making any offers.

Anyone hear how this went?

Which teams sent scouts?
According to MLB.com, the event has been pushed back until the end of January. At least 10 teams have expressed strong interest in Diaz, says Jesse Sanchez.
For what it is worth i have read that the Marlins will not be amongst them. A little odd to me considering they are in full rebuild and almost always mentioned linked to the Cuban defectors for obvious reasons.

GO CARDS!

Posted: 1/7/2013 3:22 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


10 teams with serious interest in Diaz?  My guesses:

Cubs (because they signed Soler and this seems like a Theo type pursuit)
Tigers (They could use a SS)
A's (Cespedes connection although they just signed a SS)
Dodgers (they can have whatever they want to buy)
Pirates (just seems logical)
Twins (Noted on MLBTR)
Rays (maybe)
Cardinals (probably)

I am having trouble finding 10 teams.  Thoughts?
KBoyer14HOF

Posted: 1/7/2013 4:14 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



nathanleopoldjr wrote:
bjtut wrote:
nathanleopoldjr wrote: The Cardinals are not going to do any trading.  They'll weather this year, watch the Reds win the division and then start rebuilding next year. 2014 will see a slew of league minimum players on the roster and they'll develop in time and then the Cardinals can win again.   But not 2013.
I may agree with you that there may not be any trades at least immediately  if it means trading more than they want. The Cardinals are far from rebuilding mode though. They have a strong farm system again which I'd imagine they don't want to desecrate for the sake of making a trade. They have been competetive for a long time and that is for a good reason. They mix vets with youngsters. I am for adding a stud like Stanton but not by foolishness. Last but not least I believe alot of people are giving the Reds a little too much credit. It wasn't too long ago the Cards were heavy Favorites to win division after a strong season and it didn't happen. Names on paper are just that. Nothing more. If that is all it took the Yankees would of never lost and the Angels would of killed everyone last yr. That is why you play the games.  I believe the Cards and Reds will be neck and neck this yr. and as far as next yr. goes I can only see the Cards being better
I think the Cardinals have made it clear they are set for 2013 and I'm glad.  That Stanton trade would be ridiculous.  We have plenty of excellent talent so hold onto it and use it.  I'm not criticizing the Cardinals for not making trades I am complimenting them.  Of course they are in rebuilding.  Carpenter, Furcal, Beltran and Westbrook are all gone after 2013 and that will make the team decidedly younger.  That is good.  As for 2013-forget it. There is no way the Cardinals will stay with the Reds.  2013 is a bridge year to 2014 when the new, younger Cardinals will take the field.

We will have to agree to disagree. There is alot of things that happen and don't happen in a season. Reds could have a slew of injuries, team may not gel together, players may not perform as expected, yada yada yada........ Point being is expectations are just that. Cardinals will  have alot of things that would need to go right for them to compete as well. But once again thats why you play the games.

As far as the comment on completely rebuilding I disagree as well. The Marlins are Completely rebuilding. The Cards may have some fresh faces on the team this yr. and next but thats how almost every year is. Sometimes earlier in the season. Sometimes later but you always are seeing fresh faces. Just because we didn't spend 150 mil this offseason like some teams doesn't mean we are rebuilding. I look at rebuilding as trading away lets say Holliday, Molina ,etc. to get top prospects. Thats Rebuilding IMO

Last edited 1/7/2013 4:19 PM by bjtut

Posted: 1/7/2013 4:28 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



Jmodene1 wrote: If you want quality, you have to give up quality.  Teams aren't going to give us their good players for our bad ones.  If we want Andrus or Cabrera we're going to have to give up some good prospects.
You obviously don't play video games.
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Posted: 1/7/2013 7:39 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



mike87114 wrote: 10 teams with serious interest in Diaz?  My guesses:

Cubs (because they signed Soler and this seems like a Theo type pursuit)
Tigers (They could use a SS)
A's (Cespedes connection although they just signed a SS)
Dodgers (they can have whatever they want to buy)
Pirates (just seems logical)
Twins (Noted on MLBTR)
Rays (maybe)
Cardinals (probably)

I am having trouble finding 10 teams.  Thoughts?
My thought is that the agent was the likely source and may have embellished the number to increase the buzz about his client. Sanchez was asked afterward which teams and he admitted that he did not know.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter

Posted: 1/7/2013 8:04 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



mike87114 wrote: 10 teams with serious interest in Diaz?  My guesses:

Cubs (because they signed Soler and this seems like a Theo type pursuit)
Tigers (They could use a SS)
A's (Cespedes connection although they just signed a SS)
Dodgers (they can have whatever they want to buy)
Pirates (just seems logical)
Twins (Noted on MLBTR)
Rays (maybe)
Cardinals (probably)

I am having trouble finding 10 teams.  Thoughts?
Always need to include Yankees and Red Sox on this type of list.

Posted: 1/7/2013 8:11 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



Domeboys wrote:
mike87114 wrote: 10 teams with serious interest in Diaz?  My guesses:

Cubs (because they signed Soler and this seems like a Theo type pursuit)
Tigers (They could use a SS)
A's (Cespedes connection although they just signed a SS)
Dodgers (they can have whatever they want to buy)
Pirates (just seems logical)
Twins (Noted on MLBTR)
Rays (maybe)
Cardinals (probably)

I am having trouble finding 10 teams.  Thoughts?
My thought is that the agent was the likely source and may have embellished the number to increase the buzz about his client. Sanchez was asked afterward which teams and he admitted that he did not know.
Even if 10 teams are interested in finding out what kind of talent he has, it doesn't mean that they will all get into the bidding.  I think he would have to dazzle the teams to get even 5 or 6 legit offers.  But he probably just needs 3 or 4 serious suitors.

Posted: 1/7/2013 8:59 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


You are probably correct.  There will likely be about 3 or 4 serious bidders but given the absence of a lot of SS talent right now, it could end up being more.  Time will answer this but I tend to think you your prediction is about right.

I would be amazed if the Cubs and Tigers were not invlolved.  This is just too "Theo" and the Tigers have a need similar to the Cardinals.  In fact, they may be in worse shape.  Then, of course, you will have the required "mystery" team biggrin.

The better question is what level of years and AAV are we talking about here.  The two most recent Cuban SS, Iglesias and Hechavaria, both got 4 years and $8.5 and $10 M respectively.  I don't think there has been another Cuban SS since these two.

I feel fairly certain that four years will be required and I would guess that inflation forces the total to $15-16M.  Both the Tigers and Cubs would likely go there.  I would need to be convinced that the Cardinals would do that.
KBoyer14HOF
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Posted: 1/7/2013 10:43 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


I highly doubt Boston has interest 4 of their top 15 prospects play SS including top prospect Xander Bogaerts and Jose Iglesias. iglesias is believed to ready now with the glove but many question his bat at the MLB level. They also have Deven Marrero and switch hitting Jose Vinicio. Steven Drew will be the starter in Boston. This is probably Boston strongest position organation wide. I think Iglesias could be had from Boston but i am not sure Cards will meet their price.

GO CARDS!

Posted: 1/9/2013 7:52 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



mike87114 wrote: You are probably correct.  There will likely be about 3 or 4 serious bidders but given the absence of a lot of SS talent right now, it could end up being more.  Time will answer this but I tend to think you your prediction is about right.

I would be amazed if the Cubs and Tigers were not invlolved.  This is just too "Theo" and the Tigers have a need similar to the Cardinals.  In fact, they may be in worse shape.  Then, of course, you will have the required "mystery" team biggrin.

The better question is what level of years and AAV are we talking about here.  The two most recent Cuban SS, Iglesias and Hechavaria, both got 4 years and $8.5 and $10 M respectively.  I don't think there has been another Cuban SS since these two.

I feel fairly certain that four years will be required and I would guess that inflation forces the total to $15-16M.  Both the Tigers and Cubs would likely go there.  I would need to be convinced that the Cardinals would do that.
I originally guessed 5yrs/$15M with an option built in to that figure,  But I really have no idea.  If he does get that kinda contract, he must be a pretty good prospect.
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Posted: 1/15/2013 3:51 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


Looks like Kyle McClellan will join Bermang in Texas with the Rangers. All i have heard is it is a minor league deal with a ST invite.

GO CARDS!
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Posted: 1/17/2013 4:18 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


Rick Ankiel scored a NRI to Astros camp.
Brian Walton
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