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Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013

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Posted: 1/4/2013 9:57 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


For those still excited about the potential of sign-and-trade deals, Ken Rosenthal lays it out, including a quote from an MLB exec vice president.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Posted: 1/4/2013 10:11 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



stlcards5129 wrote:

I've caught flack in the past with my opinions of what other GMs would want in return for trades. I think Miller would interest Seattle for sure, Westbrook not so much. Besides Westbrook has a NTC and probably wouldn't be to enthusiastic about battling with the Astros to stay out of the bottom of the AL west. For a guy like Hernandez I'd use the Halladay deal a few years back as a template and the Jays got 3 Top Prospects (at the time) from Philly. I'd imagine that would be Seattle's price. That being said, Felix is a FA in 2 seasons (after 2014). If you think Grienke got a lot of money wait 'til Felix gets paid, he'll probably break every single contract record for a pitcher. A deal for Hernandez would essentially be a 2 year rental.

Westbrook doesn't appear to have a NTC, but noone knows for sure.
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Posted: 1/4/2013 10:34 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


The P-D reports the Cardinals plan to be among the clubs watching Cubans Aledmys Diaz and Dariel Alvarez work out. Obviously, that is still a long way from making any offers.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter

Posted: 1/4/2013 10:42 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



PadsFS wrote:
MagnoliaCardFan wrote:
PadsFS wrote: ...In reading this article, it sounds possible:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40793708

...
According to your article--thank you--the commissioner buying off on it is the key (ie., is it collusion in his eyes?). 

So, if a team like Cleveland (no 1st or 2nd round pick, as of now) were to sign Kyle to a contract (and/not trade him), the best we could do is get an extra draft pick in the sandwich round between the 3rd and 4th rounds.  At least that's my interpretation...

No.  Our pick is 1st round supplemental. 

Cleveland would LOSE a third rounder, instead of say the Brewers, who would lose a first rounder.
Okay, let me take it one step further:  We've now had a qualifying offer rejected by KL.  Can we, now, sign him and still get the supplemental 1st-round pick?  Or could someone like Cleveland sign him, then we trade for him, AND still get to keep our supplemental 1st-round pick??

Posted: 1/4/2013 11:31 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



MagnoliaCardFan wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
MagnoliaCardFan wrote:
PadsFS wrote: ...In reading this article, it sounds possible:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40793708

...
According to your article--thank you--the commissioner buying off on it is the key (ie., is it collusion in his eyes?). 

So, if a team like Cleveland (no 1st or 2nd round pick, as of now) were to sign Kyle to a contract (and/not trade him), the best we could do is get an extra draft pick in the sandwich round between the 3rd and 4th rounds.  At least that's my interpretation...

No.  Our pick is 1st round supplemental. 

Cleveland would LOSE a third rounder, instead of say the Brewers, who would lose a first rounder.
Okay, let me take it one step further:  We've now had a qualifying offer rejected by KL.  Can we, now, sign him and still get the supplemental 1st-round pick?  Or could someone like Cleveland sign him, then we trade for him, AND still get to keep our supplemental 1st-round pick??

No we would not get the pick in scenario 1.  Similar to when we resigned Holliday.

In scenario 2, I would think we could get him and the pick, although it would be extremely odd. We would have to give the Indians a more valuable trade chip than a 3rd Round pick, but less than our own supplemental pick.
Avatar

Posted: 1/4/2013 12:09 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



PadsFS wrote:
stlcards5129 wrote:

I've caught flack in the past with my opinions of what other GMs would want in return for trades. I think Miller would interest Seattle for sure, Westbrook not so much. Besides Westbrook has a NTC and probably wouldn't be to enthusiastic about battling with the Astros to stay out of the bottom of the AL west. For a guy like Hernandez I'd use the Halladay deal a few years back as a template and the Jays got 3 Top Prospects (at the time) from Philly. I'd imagine that would be Seattle's price. That being said, Felix is a FA in 2 seasons (after 2014). If you think Grienke got a lot of money wait 'til Felix gets paid, he'll probably break every single contract record for a pitcher. A deal for Hernandez would essentially be a 2 year rental.

Westbrook doesn't appear to have a NTC, but noone knows for sure.
I'm under the impression he does. He signed an extension on a deal that had a NTC. Unless there is specific language dismissing the NTC in the signed extension, I'd imagine he still has a NTC. I obviously don't know for sure, I'm assuming he does.

Posted: 1/4/2013 12:15 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



PadsFS wrote:
MagnoliaCardFan wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
MagnoliaCardFan wrote:
PadsFS wrote: ...In reading this article, it sounds possible:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40793708

...
According to your article--thank you--the commissioner buying off on it is the key (ie., is it collusion in his eyes?). 

So, if a team like Cleveland (no 1st or 2nd round pick, as of now) were to sign Kyle to a contract (and/not trade him), the best we could do is get an extra draft pick in the sandwich round between the 3rd and 4th rounds.  At least that's my interpretation...

No.  Our pick is 1st round supplemental. 

Cleveland would LOSE a third rounder, instead of say the Brewers, who would lose a first rounder.
Okay, let me take it one step further:  We've now had a qualifying offer rejected by KL.  Can we, now, sign him and still get the supplemental 1st-round pick?  Or could someone like Cleveland sign him, then we trade for him, AND still get to keep our supplemental 1st-round pick??

No we would not get the pick in scenario 1.  Similar to when we resigned Holliday.

In scenario 2, I would think we could get him and the pick, although it would be extremely odd. We would have to give the Indians a more valuable trade chip than a 3rd Round pick, but less than our own supplemental pick.
Then lets hope Cleveland becomes an FA signing agency and signs Bourne, Napoli, and all the others ranked above Kyle, in the event we want to trade trade for him...

Posted: 1/5/2013 10:14 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


I just read a article on impossible trades that could happen on sweet spot blog on espn.

It proposed that the Cards could get Stanton for Taveras, miller,Craig and Rosey.

Yeah he is protected and cheap for 4 yrs. but that seems a little steep. You could move Beltron to 1st and or CF. And that would open up a spot for Adams at first as well. But that leaves you really short on pitching. I believe I would really consider it if you took either Miller or Rosey off that list though. And maybe threw in Jenkins . What do you all think ??
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Posted: 1/5/2013 10:51 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


bjtut, back up one page on this thread.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter

Posted: 1/5/2013 11:13 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


Ahhh yes. I must of missed that one.
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Posted: 1/6/2013 8:51 AM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


No problem. To answer your question, no way would I give Craig + Taveras + Jenkins + either Rosenthal or Miller for Stanton. In fact, I cannot think of any one active player that I would value that highly.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Posted: 1/6/2013 1:02 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



Domeboys wrote: No problem. To answer your question, no way would I give Craig + Taveras + Jenkins + either Rosenthal or Miller for Stanton. In fact, I cannot think of any one active player that I would value that highly.
i agree that's nuts

beyond nuts

one injury and any of those 3 prospects is called up into a big role... and craig isnt exactly chopped liver

Posted: 1/6/2013 2:43 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


I would have to say I agree. I do like Craig alot but I have to admit I really don't know how healthy yr. in yr. out he can stay. He is impressive off. when healthy without a doudt. He will being getting paid well very soon if he does stay healthy. As far as the others involved in conversation I have to say i am not as in love with the whole can't miss prospects that they are. I do believe from what I hear Taveras will be solid ML and maybe even a star though. Miller and Rosey I think highly of as well. Jenkins not so much. But as we found out in the Holliday trade Top Prospects don't mean 100 percent can't miss. I can't even remember his name now but I do know he plays for Houston now. ( very minimal at that ) and he hasn't amount to crap. I remember everyone saying Cards were crazy for that trade and it worked out ok. Just saying not positive I would pull the trigger on such trade but once again I would put some major thought in it expecially if they threw in a legitimate SS or SP prospect in.
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Posted: 1/6/2013 3:03 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


I would not do this deal either if i was Moz it is just too much talent for one player. Not sure i would call it nuts though. There are only maybe 5 players that would cause me to even consider trading all of that and Stanton is one of them. I love Rosenthalls arm too but it seems like some posters here have already awarded him 2 or 3 Cy Young awards. These guys do not always pan out even a guy like Tavares with all of his talent is an unknown commodity at the MLB level. All told i would do this deal if you take out Tavares and put Garcia or Adams in. We cannot underestimate the incredible skills of Giancarlo Stanton.

GO CARDS!

Posted: 1/6/2013 3:46 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



cardinalnationhouston wrote: I would not do this deal either if i was Moz it is just too much talent for one player. Not sure i would call it nuts though. There are only maybe 5 players that would cause me to even consider trading all of that and Stanton is one of them. I love Rosenthalls arm too but it seems like some posters here have already awarded him 2 or 3 Cy Young awards. These guys do not always pan out even a guy like Tavares with all of his talent is an unknown commodity at the MLB level. All told i would do this deal if you take out Tavares and put Garcia or Adams in. We cannot underestimate the incredible skills of Giancarlo Stanton.
I heard Taveras and Rosenthal were in Cooperstown yesterday getting measured for their statues.

cool

Posted: 1/6/2013 3:53 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



stlcards5129 wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
stlcards5129 wrote:

I've caught flack in the past with my opinions of what other GMs would want in return for trades. I think Miller would interest Seattle for sure, Westbrook not so much. Besides Westbrook has a NTC and probably wouldn't be to enthusiastic about battling with the Astros to stay out of the bottom of the AL west. For a guy like Hernandez I'd use the Halladay deal a few years back as a template and the Jays got 3 Top Prospects (at the time) from Philly. I'd imagine that would be Seattle's price. That being said, Felix is a FA in 2 seasons (after 2014). If you think Grienke got a lot of money wait 'til Felix gets paid, he'll probably break every single contract record for a pitcher. A deal for Hernandez would essentially be a 2 year rental.

Westbrook doesn't appear to have a NTC, but noone knows for sure.
I'm under the impression he does. He signed an extension on a deal that had a NTC. Unless there is specific language dismissing the NTC in the signed extension, I'd imagine he still has a NTC. I obviously don't know for sure, I'm assuming he does.
It may have been reported as an extension, but in the legal sense of superseding/replacing  certain clause's and not other clause's, it may not be.  Based on the way it is reported on Cot's, I'm guessing the new contract replaces the old one.
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Posted: 1/6/2013 4:50 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



PadsFS wrote:
cardinalnationhouston wrote: I would not do this deal either if i was Moz it is just too much talent for one player. Not sure i would call it nuts though. There are only maybe 5 players that would cause me to even consider trading all of that and Stanton is one of them. I love Rosenthalls arm too but it seems like some posters here have already awarded him 2 or 3 Cy Young awards. These guys do not always pan out even a guy like Tavares with all of his talent is an unknown commodity at the MLB level. All told i would do this deal if you take out Tavares and put Garcia or Adams in. We cannot underestimate the incredible skills of Giancarlo Stanton.
I heard Taveras and Rosenthal were in Cooperstown yesterday getting measured for their statues.

cool
Ha! I know, right? Rosie certainly has been impressive and i am looking forward to seeing all of the mentioned on the field for us in the future. I would not do that trade either although from what i am reading here i am far closer than most here. I believe we are one of maybe a half dozen teams in baseball that have the resources to acquire Giancarlo. I think Stanton is as close to "can't miss" as any player in baseball right now. I have him rated at the very top along with Trout, King Felix and Halladay. If he is traded it will be for a Kings ransom. MLB was sort of hinting that Stanton for King Felix would be an even trade but then they said Hernandez is not going anywhere.

GO CARDS!

Posted: 1/6/2013 8:57 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 


The Cardinals are not going to do any trading.  They'll weather this year, watch the Reds win the division and then start rebuilding next year. 2014 will see a slew of league minimum players on the roster and they'll develop in time and then the Cardinals can win again.   But not 2013.

Posted: 1/6/2013 9:17 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



nathanleopoldjr wrote: The Cardinals are not going to do any trading.  They'll weather this year, watch the Reds win the division and then start rebuilding next year. 2014 will see a slew of league minimum players on the roster and they'll develop in time and then the Cardinals can win again.   But not 2013.

This organization has shown that it is committed to spending 110M -120M on payroll and there is no reason to think that will not continue. They definitely want to be competitive so that they can keep the attendance numbers up. If they can make a trade or two that will make them good enough to really challenge Cincinnati, they will do it. There appears to be more talent in our system now than we have a place for and that will eventually have to be resolved although I sure don't want to waste any of that talent on a bad trade. As far as weathering the year and watching the Reds win the Division? That's what teams do when they are rebuilding and it does seem like they are in some sort of rebuilding mode although not a major overhaul.

Posted: 1/6/2013 10:05 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012-2013 



nathanleopoldjr wrote: The Cardinals are not going to do any trading.  They'll weather this year, watch the Reds win the division and then start rebuilding next year. 2014 will see a slew of league minimum players on the roster and they'll develop in time and then the Cardinals can win again.   But not 2013.
I may agree with you that there may not be any trades at least immediately  if it means trading more than they want. The Cardinals are far from rebuilding mode though. They have a strong farm system again which I'd imagine they don't want to desecrate for the sake of making a trade. They have been competetive for a long time and that is for a good reason. They mix vets with youngsters. I am for adding a stud like Stanton but not by foolishness. Last but not least I believe alot of people are giving the Reds a little too much credit. It wasn't too long ago the Cards were heavy Favorites to win division after a strong season and it didn't happen. Names on paper are just that. Nothing more. If that is all it took the Yankees would of never lost and the Angels would of killed everyone last yr. That is why you play the games.  I believe the Cards and Reds will be neck and neck this yr. and as far as next yr. goes I can only see the Cards being better

Last edited 1/6/2013 10:09 PM by bjtut

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