nbr1hawkeye wrote:

PadsFS wrote: Well he has a workout in Mexico or some such thing on January 5th and he can sign with a team on January 23rd so we will find out this month!

Why does he have to wait until January 23rd?  His 23rd birthday is January 8.  He should be able to sign anytime after that.

Yep.  I meant the 8th.  I got dyslexic with the 23rd birthday thing. Thanks.

Jim Bowden proposes a trade that would send Jay, Miller, and Rosenthal to Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez. Thoughts?

GScottAR wrote: Jim Bowden proposes a trade that would send Jay, Miller, and Rosenthal to Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez. Thoughts?

No not a chance in hell. Because, I do not want to see Rosenthal go anywhere. I would much rather throw in Lynn or Kelly.

And personally, I think Cargo is overrated. His home/away splits are horrible. Home, last season, he batted .368 and away he batted .234. Also, he OBP is WAY lower, .437 vs. .301. Not very good. He is a product of Coors Field, and I can see him being a Todd Helton type to stay there the rest of his career.

GScottAR wrote: Jim Bowden proposes a trade that would send Jay, Miller, and Rosenthal to Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez. Thoughts?

Did you see the responses to that article?  Some of his ideas weren't totally idiotic, but this one is dumber than any proposals I have read on this message board in a long time... including some of mine.   

GScottAR wrote: Jim Bowden proposes a trade that would send Jay, Miller, and Rosenthal to Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez. Thoughts?

I blogged about it the other day and included a poll. 86 percent of readers would not consider the deal if they were the Cardinals. The other 14 percent must be Rockies fans!

"Bowden wants Cards to pay heavy CarGo fee"

I would trade Miller , Jay, Furcal and Westbrook and minor league prospect for Tulo, Gonzo and Chacin.

or Miller, Westbrook and Furcal for Tulo and Chacin

GScottAR wrote: Jim Bowden proposes a trade that would send Jay, Miller, and Rosenthal to Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez. Thoughts?

Dumb trade for the cards

I got another idea. Don't know if Rockies would go for it but here it is anyway.

Send Miller, Furcal, , Garcia and Martinez 

Receive  Tulo , Chacin and cash

sign Michael Bourn to play center field

re-sign Waino 

That would leave us a little thin in pitching and probably push us past what the Cards are willing to pay but it sure would be a nice lineup

Bourn
Tulo
Beltron
Holliday
Craig
Freese
Molina
Carpenter/Descalso
Pitcher

Starting five

Carpenter
Waino
Lynn
Kelly/Rosey
Westbrook


-

If they are going to gut the system for a trade, why wouldn't you just call up the Rangers and ask for Andrus or Profar?

Don't get me wrong, I believe Tulo is one of the best players in the game when healthy and a legitimate shortstop, but the key word is HEALTHY. The guy has a mega-deal that doesn't really take effect until he's 30. He has a small history of leg problems, an issue that could have a long-term effect on his power and lateral movement on defense.

I like the ideas though. It's been a very quite winter for the Cardinals and it's just not fun sitting around waiting for spring training.

KylMss wrote: If they are going to gut the system for a trade, why wouldn't you just call up the Rangers and ask for Andrus or Profar?

Don't get me wrong, I believe Tulo is one of the best players in the game when healthy and a legitimate shortstop, but the key word is HEALTHY. The guy has a mega-deal that doesn't really take effect until he's 30. He has a small history of leg problems, an issue that could have a long-term effect on his power and lateral movement on defense.

I like the ideas though. It's been a very quite winter for the Cardinals and it's just not fun sitting around waiting for spring training.

I would much rather have one of those two players than Tulo. I would love to have Andrus, who I think would thrive much better in the NL. Profar, well, he is still unknown on the ML level, but I would rather take a chance with Profar than Tulo. Because, of the reasons you gave.

Illinois21 wrote:

GScottAR wrote: Jim Bowden proposes a trade that would send Jay, Miller, and Rosenthal to Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez. Thoughts?

No not a chance in hell. Because, I do not want to see Rosenthal go anywhere. I would much rather throw in Lynn or Kelly.

And personally, I think Cargo is overrated. His home/away splits are horrible. Home, last season, he batted .368 and away he batted .234. Also, he OBP is WAY lower, .437 vs. .301. Not very good. He is a product of Coors Field, and I can see him being a Todd Helton type to stay there the rest of his career.

You think they know something we don't. Trust me they do and they know Lynn might not be a starter.

I'd rather keep Kelly and Rosenthal. Those guys flat out bring the heat in the pen but I realize you have to give up something to get something.

bjtut wrote: I got another idea. Don't know if Rockies would go for it but here it is anyway.

Send Miller, Furcal, , Garcia and Martinez 

Receive  Tulo , Chacin and cash

sign Michael Bourn to play center field

re-sign Waino 

That would leave us a little thin in pitching and probably push us past what the Cards are willing to pay but it sure would be a nice lineup

Bourn
Tulo
Beltron
Holliday
Craig
Freese
Molina
Carpenter/Descalso
Pitcher

Starting five

Carpenter
Waino
Lynn
Kelly/Rosey
Westbrook


-

I don't see why Colorado would want Furcal or Garcia. Or what the Cardinals would want with Chacin.

We send $7M in Furcal and $6M in Garcia to them for (2013) $10M of Tulo and $1.6M of Chacin.

Then we sign Bourn for $15M AAV, netting us $14M in the red.

Why sign Bourn anyway?

Further, Jon Jay absolutely should be a starter.

619illinibooyah wrote:

Illinois21 wrote:

GScottAR wrote: Jim Bowden proposes a trade that would send Jay, Miller, and Rosenthal to Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez. Thoughts?

No not a chance in hell. Because, I do not want to see Rosenthal go anywhere. I would much rather throw in Lynn or Kelly.

And personally, I think Cargo is overrated. His home/away splits are horrible. Home, last season, he batted .368 and away he batted .234. Also, he OBP is WAY lower, .437 vs. .301. Not very good. He is a product of Coors Field, and I can see him being a Todd Helton type to stay there the rest of his career.

You think they know something we don't. Trust me they do and they know Lynn might not be a starter.

I'd rather keep Kelly and Rosenthal. Those guys flat out bring the heat in the pen but I realize you have to give up something to get something.

Why would Lynn not be a starter?

He's absolutely earned that spot or at least a spot on any other rotation in baseball.

PadsFS wrote:

I don't see why Colorado would want Furcal or Garcia. Or what the Cardinals would want with Chacin.

We send $7M in Furcal and $6M in Garcia to them for (2013) $10M of Tulo and $1.6M of Chacin.

Then we sign Bourn for $15M AAV, netting us $14M in the red.

Why sign Bourn anyway?

Further, Jon Jay absolutely should be a starter.

I don't see why Colorado would trade their elite SS who is under team control for 8 more seasons after coming off of a season where his value is lower than it has ever been, at all. Much less for some players they'd have no interest in. If the Cardinals were seriously interested in trading for an elite SS they better be prepared to offer a package including ALL of Taveras, Miller and Martinez. 

I don't see why people continually underestimate what it would take to acquire a top notch SS.

stlcards5129 wrote:

PadsFS wrote:

I don't see why Colorado would want Furcal or Garcia. Or what the Cardinals would want with Chacin.

We send $7M in Furcal and $6M in Garcia to them for (2013) $10M of Tulo and $1.6M of Chacin.

Then we sign Bourn for $15M AAV, netting us $14M in the red.

Why sign Bourn anyway?

Further, Jon Jay absolutely should be a starter.

I don't see why Colorado would trade their elite SS who is under team control for 8 more seasons after coming off of a season where his value is lower than it has ever been, at all. Much less for some players they'd have no interest in. If the Cardinals were seriously interested in trading for an elite SS they better be prepared to offer a package including ALL of Taveras, Miller and Martinez. 

I don't see why people continually underestimate what it would take to acquire a top notch SS.

Maybe because said SS is going to make a absolute TON of $$ over his contract, they are not going to get a package of Tavarez, Miller and Martinez for Tulo with that contract period.

TCRedbird wrote:

stlcards5129 wrote:

PadsFS wrote:

I don't see why Colorado would want Furcal or Garcia. Or what the Cardinals would want with Chacin.

We send $7M in Furcal and $6M in Garcia to them for (2013) $10M of Tulo and $1.6M of Chacin.

Then we sign Bourn for $15M AAV, netting us $14M in the red.

Why sign Bourn anyway?

Further, Jon Jay absolutely should be a starter.

I don't see why Colorado would trade their elite SS who is under team control for 8 more seasons after coming off of a season where his value is lower than it has ever been, at all. Much less for some players they'd have no interest in. If the Cardinals were seriously interested in trading for an elite SS they better be prepared to offer a package including ALL of Taveras, Miller and Martinez. 

I don't see why people continually underestimate what it would take to acquire a top notch SS.

Maybe because said SS is going to make a absolute TON of $$ over his contract, they are not going to get a package of Tavarez, Miller and Martinez for Tulo with that contract period.

I think Tulo makes a reasonable salary over the rest of his contract. He would have gotten significantly more had he hit free agency.

I'm not endorsing the Cardinals offering those players, but that's what it would take for the Rockies to move him. Which brings me back to my original point. He won't get traded.

Chacin is a decent pitcher and under control for a bit. Colorado probably doesn't want Furcal but he would only be under contract for this year and would offset some of the money Tulo would make. Garcia is a risk because of injury but also is high reward for them if he stays healthy plus would offset money once again for Tulo salary.  Colorodo gets Miller (stud), Martinez ( possibly stud), Garcia (risk with high ceiling and SS for 1 yr. for Chacin (young with potential to offset Miller,Martinez,Garcia leaving and stud SS if he can stay healthy with large contract. To me its a gamble and a win for both teams. As far as Bourn he is a legitimate leadoff hitter. I would love the speed at the top of order although I am ok with Jay  if we need to save money for Waino.
   All in all its just an idea for fun and I don't think either Cards or Rockies would be getting screwed and I would think it would be a fun team to watch !!!

Illinois21 wrote:

GScottAR wrote: Jim Bowden proposes a trade that would send Jay, Miller, and Rosenthal to Colorado for Carlos Gonzalez. Thoughts?

No not a chance in hell. Because, I do not want to see Rosenthal go anywhere. I would much rather throw in Lynn or Kelly.

And personally, I think Cargo is overrated. His home/away splits are horrible. Home, last season, he batted .368 and away he batted .234. Also, he OBP is WAY lower, .437 vs. .301. Not very good. He is a product of Coors Field, and I can see him being a Todd Helton type to stay there the rest of his career.

A lot of people on this board said the same thing about Matt Holliday. He turned out ok.

I know that rivals rarely do trades but I have been thinking about a potential Cards-Cubs trade lately.

It is becoming apparent that the Wainwright situation is headed down the same path as Pujols. Waino is going to want a contract like Matt Cain or Zach Greinke and ownership will never sign off on that so do we really want him to pitch in 2013, have us tender him, have him reject it, have him sign elsewhere, and have us pick up a draft pick? Sound familiar? Why not get something else why we can?

The idea I have is send Waino and Furcal to the Cubs for Starlin Castro and Matt Garza. It gives us a long term answer at short instead of one more year of Waino, and also exchanges one injured player for another, although I think Garza has more upside than Furcal.