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RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012

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Posted: 11/2/2012 8:55 AM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


IMO, any team trading away the RARE commodity of a quality SS, has the leverage in any trade negotiation. In other words, a quality SS only comes at a heavy price (money, talent, and/or risk).

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  • UncleDenny
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Posted: 11/2/2012 11:45 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


I would include Kelly--not Lynn--in a package involving Andrus or Alcides Escobar (probably untouchable).
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Posted: 11/2/2012 1:47 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


My favorite Blue Jay, SS Yunel Escobar, can probably be had for a reasonable price.
Definitely worth looking into.

Last edited 11/2/2012 1:48 PM by shakenbakeMcBride

Posted: 11/2/2012 2:04 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


Walt traded two relievers (Almanza and Looper) with a SS prospect (Ozuna) to get 21-yr-old Edgar Renteria--who was the youngest of the 4 players, BTW--from the Marlins in 1998.

Posted: 11/2/2012 2:12 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



UncleDenny wrote: I would include Kelly--not Lynn--in a package involving Andrus or Alcides Escobar (probably untouchable).
Looking up Andrus and Escobar under baseball-reference.com, neither is going to get to the HoF with his bat (84 and 81 OPS+ for their respective careers).
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Posted: 11/2/2012 6:20 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


I think a package of Adams and Kelly/Lynn would be able to get us pretty far in trades...not that the ones below would fit:

not that the reds like us...but you wonder about Cozart and Hamilton in Cincy,...early reports have Hamilton struggling in the outfield...

I also do think looking at Dee Gordon is worth a look...i know he has struggled but he is young and gifted...as a backup and learning behind Furcal might be nice...

As much as i want an all around great SS... i think we coudl deal with a defense first SS... 2013 may need to be cobbled together a little... but 2014 (or even 2013) might allow for flex having the SS be not so important to the offense

is see 2014 as:

Wong
Taveras/Jay
Craig
Holliday
Yadi
Freese
Jay/Taveras
Shortstop
Pitcher

Id love a top notch SS...but i think the production of Wong and Taveras will be very nice for the lineup and make up for the limitations of Jay and whatever SS we may look for

a bottom 3 that has speed might be nice

Posted: 11/2/2012 7:39 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



Jmodene1 wrote: I am always amused when people want to trade our disposable players (Salas, McClellan, whoever) for good players.  That's not how it works.

The Rangers would certainly ask for Miller and/or Rosenthal for Andrus.  We could counter with Lynn and a lesser prospect, and the Rangers (who, as noted, have Profar standing by to take over at SS) might well bite on that.
Don't want to get into a debate, but I did not suggest that we could trade Salas or McClellan for Andrus.  The main carrot is Miller.  Salas and/or McClellan are sweeteners.  Other sweeteners might be necessary.   And I wasn't talking about Andrus either.  I was assembling a package of players to get Profar, not Andrus.  Something like Miller/Salas/Kozma might get TX interested.

Granted Andrus is much more obtainable.  I don't know what it would take to get him, but since we would only have him under control for 2 years (and not cheap years), I am not that excited about getting him.  He would be a lot cheaper trade-wise... perhaps cheaper than some may think.  I certainly hope the Cards don't deal Miller (or any of our top 5 pitching prospects) for him.  Lynn and a lesser prospect might do it, but I would hate to give up that much for Andrus.  TX might not do it but I'd offer Westbrook and Kozma (and maybe a younger prospect)
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Posted: 11/2/2012 7:50 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



shakenbakeMcBride wrote: My favorite Blue Jay, SS Yunel Escobar, can probably be had for a reasonable price.
Definitely worth looking into.
One of my favorite monikers on this site. ShakenbakeMcbride. Anyhow, This guy has a bad rep as a HEADCASE! Andrus is much more a "Cardinal type" player.

GO CARDS!

Posted: 11/2/2012 11:58 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


Personally I wouldn't part with Taveras, Rosenthal or Miller for Andrus if that is what it would take to get him.  I'd trade Lynn, I'd trade Kelly, I'd trade Wacha, I'd trade Martinez, I'd trade Wong (though Texas doesn't really need a 2B), I'd trade Adams, I'd trade Jenkins (obviously not all of them together) but Taveras, Rosenthal and Miller are the three that I wouldn't trade for the world at this junction.  Carpenter and Westbrook will likely be gone in 2014.  If we are lucky we will have Wainwright resigned long term and Garcia will be back to normal for 2014.  That effectively leave 3 spots to fill.  Rosenthal and Miller figure for two of those spots leaving one opening which could be filled by Martinez, Wacha, Kelly or Lynn at that point.  Taveras meanwhile has been compared to Pujols when it comes to position player prospects.  Again that is not something you just give up.

The Cardinals do have a glut of RHP that could be leveraged for a trade but because of that I would avoid trading (arguably) the top two at all costs for a SS that while great will likely only be around for 2 seasons.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 8:47 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



I agree, not that SS isn't important andI do not know what we're going to do with all of them if they all turn out to hit their ceiling, and BTW Martinez might be the best of the bunch I'd include him in the untouchables. He could be our next elite closer if he can't start.

I'll settle for a 220 hitter with good to great defense. Heck with the heat Rosy, Miller, Martinez could bring you might not even need any fielders..... Just a catcher and the pitcher, maybe a first baseman:}

And, yes I'm aware no such thing as a pitching prospect....


---------------------------------------------
--- RandomCardinalsFan wrote:

Personally I wouldn't part with Taveras, Rosenthal or Miller for Andrus if that is what it would take to get him.  I'd trade Lynn, I'd trade Kelly, I'd trade Wacha, I'd trade Martinez, I'd trade Wong (though Texas doesn't really need a 2B), I'd trade Adams, I'd trade Jenkins (obviously not all of them together) but Taveras, Rosenthal and Miller are the three that I wouldn't trade for the world at this junction.  Carpenter and Westbrook will likely be gone in 2014.  If we are lucky we will have Wainwright resigned long term and Garcia will be back to normal for 2014.  That effectively leave 3 spots to fill.  Rosenthal and Miller figure for two of those spots leaving one opening which could be filled by Martinez, Wacha, Kelly or Lynn at that point.  Taveras meanwhile has been compared to Pujols when it comes to position player prospects.  Again that is not something you just give up.

The Cardinals do have a glut of RHP that could be leveraged for a trade but because of that I would avoid trading (arguably) the top two at all costs for a SS that while great will likely only be around for 2 seasons.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 11/3/2012 9:43 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



RandomCardinalsFan wrote: Personally I wouldn't part with Taveras, Rosenthal or Miller for Andrus if that is what it would take to get him.  I'd trade Lynn, I'd trade Kelly, I'd trade Wacha, I'd trade Martinez, I'd trade Wong (though Texas doesn't really need a 2B), I'd trade Adams, I'd trade Jenkins (obviously not all of them together) but Taveras, Rosenthal and Miller are the three that I wouldn't trade for the world at this junction.  Carpenter and Westbrook will likely be gone in 2014.  If we are lucky we will have Wainwright resigned long term and Garcia will be back to normal for 2014.  That effectively leave 3 spots to fill.  Rosenthal and Miller figure for two of those spots leaving one opening which could be filled by Martinez, Wacha, Kelly or Lynn at that point.  Taveras meanwhile has been compared to Pujols when it comes to position player prospects.  Again that is not something you just give up.

The Cardinals do have a glut of RHP that could be leveraged for a trade but because of that I would avoid trading (arguably) the tlveop two at all costs for a SS that while great will likely only be around for 2 seasons.
i agree with this statement, except i add wacha and martinez to the untouchable list. remember, any deal for andrus is for only two yrs. and due to the leverage texas has in a potential deal for him, they will want a top 5 guy. any of our top 5 guys are worth more than 2 yrs of service from him.

not to mention we are in an enviable position to rely more on pitching soon. why are tampa and oakland able to do what they do? because they have a stable of young, cost effective pitchers to rely on. one goes down, they plug in another. he goes down, in steps yet another pitching stud. we are positioning ourselves to do the same thing, but with also a budget that allows for more offensive spending.
---
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Posted: 11/3/2012 11:58 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



cardzZilla wrote:
RandomCardinalsFan wrote: Personally I wouldn't part with Taveras, Rosenthal or Miller for Andrus if that is what it would take to get him.  I'd trade Lynn, I'd trade Kelly, I'd trade Wacha, I'd trade Martinez, I'd trade Wong (though Texas doesn't really need a 2B), I'd trade Adams, I'd trade Jenkins (obviously not all of them together) but Taveras, Rosenthal and Miller are the three that I wouldn't trade for the world at this junction.  Carpenter and Westbrook will likely be gone in 2014.  If we are lucky we will have Wainwright resigned long term and Garcia will be back to normal for 2014.  That effectively leave 3 spots to fill.  Rosenthal and Miller figure for two of those spots leaving one opening which could be filled by Martinez, Wacha, Kelly or Lynn at that point.  Taveras meanwhile has been compared to Pujols when it comes to position player prospects.  Again that is not something you just give up.

The Cardinals do have a glut of RHP that could be leveraged for a trade but because of that I would avoid trading (arguably) the tlveop two at all costs for a SS that while great will likely only be around for 2 seasons.
i agree with this statement, except i add wacha and martinez to the untouchable list. remember, any deal for andrus is for only two yrs. and due to the leverage texas has in a potential deal for him, they will want a top 5 guy. any of our top 5 guys are worth more than 2 yrs of service from him.

not to mention we are in an enviable position to rely more on pitching soon. why are tampa and oakland able to do what they do? because they have a stable of young, cost effective pitchers to rely on. one goes down, they plug in another. he goes down, in steps yet another pitching stud. we are positioning ourselves to do the same thing, but with also a budget that allows for more offensive spending.
I am not sure why Wacha is in this discussion, he can't be traded until he has 1 year in the system.

Posted: 11/3/2012 2:09 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


You're right.  I forgot about that rule. banghead
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Posted: 11/4/2012 3:17 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


Buster Olney suggested that the Indians go the way of the A's and do an overhaul this offseason. He mentions trading Asdrubal Cabrera as a start to the fire sale. I'd love to see us go after Cabrera if this somehow happens.

Posted: 11/4/2012 10:21 PM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


I don't think that he would be expensive to acquire since he will be expensive, payroll-wise.  I do think he could became a really good hitter, (by ss standards).  He is already average or better and he is only 26.  I think I would prefer him over Andrus though, all things considered.
HighJump31 wrote: Buster Olney suggested that the Indians go the way of the A's and do an overhaul this offseason. He mentions trading Asdrubal Cabrera as a start to the fire sale. I'd love to see us go after Cabrera if this somehow happened.

Posted: 11/5/2012 7:04 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



Jmodene1 wrote: You all are still looking at trades strictly on the talent-for-talent basis.  Salaries have an effect, too - and a Lynn-for-Andrus trade would be a trade involving a starting pitcher making $500K for a shortstop making $6MM+.

Andrus will make $4.8M in 2013 and $6.475M in 2014, when Lynn will likely be eligible for arbitration and possibly make around $3M.
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Posted: 11/5/2012 7:59 AM

RE: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



nbr1hawkeye wrote: I don't think that he would be expensive to acquire since he will be expensive, payroll-wise.  I do think he could became a really good hitter, (by ss standards).  He is already average or better and he is only 26.  I think I would prefer him over Andrus though, all things considered.
HighJump31 wrote: Buster Olney suggested that the Indians go the way of the A's and do an overhaul this offseason. He mentions trading Asdrubal Cabrera as a start to the fire sale. I'd love to see us go after Cabrera if this somehow happened.

Since the Indians' goal would be rebuilding, perhaps they would eat some of Cabrera's salary in exchange for more from the Cards in the way of prospects.  Otherwise, that salary is a deal braker IMO, especially the $10Million for 2014.
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Posted: 11/5/2012 10:25 AM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



PadsFS wrote:
Jmodene1 wrote: You all are still looking at trades strictly on the talent-for-talent basis.  Salaries have an effect, too - and a Lynn-for-Andrus trade would be a trade involving a starting pitcher making $500K for a shortstop making $6MM+.

Andrus will make $4.8M in 2013 and $6.475M in 2014, when Lynn will likely be eligible for arbitration and possibly make around $3M.
Actually, Lynn is not eligible for arbitration until after the 2014 season.  He's at 1.119 years of ML service time as of the end of this season and since the super-two cutoff is around 2.130 or thereabouts, he'll still be a couple weeks short of arbitration eligibility at the end of the 2013 season.  Thus, he won't get his seven-figure paycheck until 2014.

So, with Andrus making $11.275MM the next two years and Lynn probably making about $500K in 2013 and $800K in 2014, that's nearly $10MM in savings for the Rangers if they pick up Lynn in a deal for Andrus.

Posted: 11/5/2012 1:53 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 



Jmodene1 wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
Jmodene1 wrote: You all are still looking at trades strictly on the talent-for-talent basis.  Salaries have an effect, too - and a Lynn-for-Andrus trade would be a trade involving a starting pitcher making $500K for a shortstop making $6MM+.

Andrus will make $4.8M in 2013 and $6.475M in 2014, when Lynn will likely be eligible for arbitration and possibly make around $3M.
Actually, Lynn is not eligible for arbitration until after the 2014 season.  He's at 1.119 years of ML service time as of the end of this season and since the super-two cutoff is around 2.130 or thereabouts, he'll still be a couple weeks short of arbitration eligibility at the end of the 2013 season.  Thus, he won't get his seven-figure paycheck until 2014.

So, with Andrus making $11.275MM the next two years and Lynn probably making about $500K in 2013 and $800K in 2014, that's nearly $10MM in savings for the Rangers if they pick up Lynn in a deal for Andrus.

Yea.  I wasn't really sure how much he pitched in 2011.  I thought his September time would count against him if he is on the roster beforehand.  How did he only accrue 0.119 years of service time?  He was on the team from late June to early August, then was on the DL, which would accrue time too, right?
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Posted: 11/5/2012 2:32 PM

Re: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors - 2012 


It is being said that Dan Haren has been traded. To the Cubs for Carlos Marmol.

GO CARDS!
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