Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
InboxChat RoomChat Room (0 fans in chatroom)
Post New Topic
< Prev.  Page of 100  Next >

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED

Posted: 11/6/2008 5:22 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Per Joe Strauss, Cardinals pursuing Holliday, Ludwick may be in multi player deal:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltod...E0?OpenDocument



If you don't have to give up Rasmus, I think Holliday becomes more interesting as an option. I'm still leary of his splits, but he's improved on the road every single season he's been in the league.

This really wouldn't solve anything though besides Tony being happier. You would still IMO have to deal Ankiel for a second baseman or shortstop and then sign the other in free agency. If you do that, then your lineup becomes better. Say for hypothetical situations, the Cardinals trade Ankiel for Cano or Kelly Johnson and Ludwick + more for Holliday.

Schumaker/Shorstop
Cano/Johnson
Pujols
Holliday
Glaus
Rasmus
Molina
Pitcher
Shortstop (izturis?)/Schumaker

I'd rather trade Ankiel for a shortstop and sign a guy like Hudson, but I fail to see any shortstops out there that we could trade Ankiel for besides Yunel Escobar, who would probably be traded for Peavy.

If you pull that off though, then the lineup looks better. I just think that trading Ludwick + for Holliday solves pretty much nothing.

Avatar

Posted: 11/6/2008 5:29 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


It says we would want to sign Holliday to an extension as well.

This would be an interesting trade.  As you mentioned, it really doesn't do much for us in terms of production, unless Holliday keeps up his higher batting average which could turn in to a higher OPS.  Still though, this doesn't solve our middle infield problem.

I wonder if after watching Ankiel gun down their baserunners twice if they'd be interested in him instead of Ludwick.

Last edited 11/6/2008 5:31 PM by kotheb

Posted: 11/6/2008 5:35 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



kotheb wrote: It says we would want to sign Holliday to an extension as well.

This would be an interesting trade.  As you mentioned, it really doesn't do much for us in terms of production, unless Holliday keeps up his higher batting average which could turn in to a higher OPS.  Still though, this doesn't solve our middle infield problem.

I wonder if after watching Ankiel gun down their baserunners twice if they'd be interested in him instead of Ludwick.
Ludwick, Ankiel, + more more for Holliday and Tulo
Avatar

Posted: 11/6/2008 5:54 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Now if we could swing a deal that included Tulo this would be a different story....

The article Strauss wrote mentioned that we may explore trading Skip and Duncan too if we get Holiday, giving us an outfield of Holiday-Rasmus-Ankiel.  I can live with that.  Then when Ankiel goes maybe we promote another one of our glut of outfielders.

Posted: 11/6/2008 7:08 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I'll admit I have little to no knowledge of the Cubs farm system. What would they give up to get Peavy? Can they really compete with our offer if Colby is involved?
TCRedbird wrote: Cards really would be playing for the WC if the Cubs end up landing Peavy and keeping dempster.

Posted: 11/6/2008 7:09 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Also, I put this on the Post Dispatch's forums, but here is a possible LH relief option:

Per mlbtraderumors:

"5:18pm: More on the Mets: Ken Davidoff says they're shopping Aaron Heilman, Scott Schoeneweis, and Pedro Feliciano.  The A's, Rays, and Rangers are fans of Heilman.  The Rockies, Cardinals, Cubs, and D'Backs were also tossed into the mix by Adam Rubin, though the D'Backs haven't had recent talks.   The Mets would be willing to pick up some of the $3.6MM owed to Schoeneweis next year"


Pedro Feliciano:

2008:
86 games
4.05 ERA
LHB average/OBP/SLG/OPS against: .210/.280/.295/.575

2007:
78 ames
3.09 ERA
LHB line against: .168/.273/.211/.484

2006:
64 games
2.09 ERA
LHB line against: .231/.272/.316/.588

2005:DNP

2004:
22 games
5.40 ERA
LHB line against: .128/.244/.154/.398

2003:
23 games
3.35 ERA
LHB line against: .304/.407/.391/.798



Just not sure what the Mets would need for him. I was thinking about Anderson, but is that too much? Do they have a need for him? If you made a trade for him and signed Damaso Marte, Ohman, reyes, or Affeldt, you would have a pretty sick LH relief corps and that would complete that previous hole.

Last edited 11/6/2008 7:09 PM by Cardsfan914

Avatar

Posted: 11/6/2008 10:49 PM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


So, we are going to give up a top minor leaguer (Rasmus/Wallace) and a couple of minor pieces and dump a pitcher who is not worth his salary and get back a Cy Young winner and a starting SS who is a plus defender and potentially plus offensively.   I'm sure Towers is salivating.


My thinking is that San Diego is trying to dump Green and Peavy due to salary concerns. It has been stated that there are 3 teams left standing in this Peavy thing. I believe St.louis to be one of them. It all depends on how bad Atlanta wants Jake as to wether or not we are in discussion. I do not think either Peavy or Green will be with Padres next year so this puts Cards in the Catbird seat so to speak. I think the 4 guys i mentioned may be enough to get it done if the Braves hold tight and this deal becomes dragged out. I have a few concerns with Jake going to DL late last year however ala MM but i feel Peavy is a notch above Mark anyway. Risky but at what Price? Gotta go with Charlie here though because if there is a chance it could be enough to distance Cards from the rest. GO CARDS!

GO CARDS!
Avatar

Posted: 11/7/2008 6:57 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Three years of a 1.000 OPS player who is a plus defender for one year of a player who has an .800 OPS away from his home park for his career (who will require a $100MM+ extension)?

Please, no.

Let's hope Mo didn't catch NaCharlie disease...where names and salaries are more important than talent and production.




This message was approved by the Easton Eye Test™.

Posted: 11/7/2008 7:31 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



easton714 wrote:

Three years of a 1.000 OPS player who is a plus defender for one year of a player who has an .800 OPS away from his home park for his career (who will require a $100MM+ extension)?

Please, no.

Let's hope Mo didn't catch NaCharlie disease...where names and salaries are more important than talent and production.



it doesnt really make any sense to do this trade.
Avatar

Posted: 11/7/2008 8:23 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 




----easton714 wrote: ---------------

Three years of a 1.000 OPS player who is a plus defender for one year of a player who has an .800 OPS away from his home park for his career (who will require a $100MM+ extension)?

Please, no.

Let's hope Mo didn't catch NaCharlie disease...where names and salaries are more important than talent and production.

---------------------------------------------

here here Easton...my sentiments exactly...i love Holliday, but just not at the trade chip price he will demand and contract he will demand either...

i just don't see the deal with everyone thinking we shoudl get another OFer...even if we have to move one of ours (Luddy or Ank) we still have Skip/Barton/Duncan/Mather/RASMUS/Jay etc. all hanging around...as much as some people want to give up on Duncan that just is not going to happen with this organization...eh is going to get his shot to play again and he has showed he can be an impact type of guy....if we want an OFer i say go out and get Jason Michaels or Juan Rivera on the cheap to fill a bench veteran type that can hit lefties well..that gives the kids a bit more time in AAA to develop..and if michaels has to be pushed out of the way then it is no big deal...our OFers provided plenty of production last year when they were healthy...

upgrading the middle infield bat is a NEED
upgrading the left side and end of the bullpen is a GREAT NEED
upgrading our #5 SP is starting to look like a NEED
in my opinion keeping Rasmus is a NEED

upgrading the OF is a DESIRE

in my house NEEDS always take precedence over DESIRES

-if we can swing a deal with the Pads for Peavy and Greene without giving up Rasmus then we should take it
-sign Affeldt and Beimel
-re-sign Lopez
-in spring training if Carp is looking good then we deal Piniero (and eat some salary) for a prospect, if not we hold him

Posted: 11/7/2008 9:50 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



easton714 wrote:

Three years of a 1.000 OPS player who is a plus defender for one year of a player who has an .800 OPS away from his home park for his career (who will require a $100MM+ extension)?

Please, no.

Let's hope Mo didn't catch NaCharlie disease...where names and salaries are more important than talent and production.



We've had that argument before, but he's gotten better every season on the road. Plus the difference between home/road really wasn't that much worse then Ludwick in 2008, which is the Holliday you'd be trading for, not the 2004 version of Holliday. Also, it's arguable that the extreme pitchers ballparks (SD and SF) can negate the Coors factor, when the NL Central has more hitters ballparks then pitchers ballparks then the NL West.

The starting pitching probably isn't as good in the NL Central as the NL West either (you don't have to face pitchers like Lincecum, Cain, Webb, Haren, Peavy, Young, Kershaw, Kuroda, Lowe, or anybody like that as much). In the NL Central the premier pitchers he'd face are: Zambrano, Harden, Oswalt, Volquez, Harang, nobody from pittsburgh really, Gallardo). Obviously you still face the NL West, just not nearly as much as he would have.

All that being said, I wouldn't trade for him unless you got an extension signed and if they had a deal in line with another team dealing Ankiel for Kelly Johnson or a middle infielder to improve our middle infield.

And for the record, I'd prefer Ludwick for Yunel Escobar over Ludwick for Holliday if the Braves don't get Peavy.

Last edited 11/7/2008 9:56 AM by Cardsfan914

Avatar

Posted: 11/7/2008 10:30 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I really hope we don't do this.

There is NO WAY that you trade three years of a player for one year of a player unless the latter is astronomically better than the former....ESPECIALLY if the former makes SIGNIFICANTLY less money.

Unless the deal is expanded to include Barmes, Corpas, Stewart, etc., there is no reason we should be considering this.  We should not be spending $14MM (or whatever Holliday makes next year) on a position of strength when we have such pressing other needs.




This message was approved by the Easton Eye Test™.

Posted: 11/7/2008 11:29 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Peavy when right is as good as anybody in baseball.  As far as being better at home I believe that to be true of anyone.  Of course your going to feel more comfortable at home then on the road.  He changes parks IMO he would be just as dominant as he was in San Diego.  The guy is filthy and is as good as anyone.  He is dominant!
ambill10 wrote:
CharlieJohnson wrote:

Don't you have to do what you can to get Peavy?  If anything you have to block him from going to the Cubs.  He goes to the Cubs you have no chance.  He absolutley can't go there if if your the Cards and you have to do everything you can to block that!

I don't think Peavy on the Cubs would make them better than the Cubs with Dempster.  Peavy and Harden in the same rotation is a huge ticking time bomb.  Peavy away from PetCo Park is not a Cy Young Award winner.

If Peavy were on the Cubs next year I predict he would finish 16-10 with a 4.18 ERA.  I could be wrong, but I don't see him being a dominant force if he is pitching for the Cubs next year.

P.S. - the same applies to Peavy pitching for the Cardinals.  I just don't see it in his numbers.  He looks likely to be either injured or a middle of the rotation at best starter next year unless he stays in PetCo.

Posted: 11/7/2008 1:48 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


What the Cardinals could do is trade Ankiel or Ludwick in a similar deal as J.D. Drew before 2004 when they traded him with one year left, coming off a season that he actually stayed healthy and acquired Wainwright, Marquis, and Ray King. ray King is the type of lefty that if there was one out there right now we could really use. Marquis was one of our best starters in 2004 and Wainwright is now our ace.

A team I thought that could afford to deal pitching is TB. I've heard they were interested in Holliday, so I'm not sure how much interest they have in Ankiel, perhaps they need a RH bat over a LH bat. Though I'd venture to say a 2-6 of Ankiel/Crawford-Upton/Longoria-Pena-Longoria/Upton - Crawford/Ankiel would sure look nice for them.

Could you get something like:

Wade Davis or Jeremy Hellickson would possibly represent the Wainwright part.

Not sure after that. Would they deal Trevor Miller? He is 35 though, 36 in May. But he's been effective against LHB's.

Then there is Edwin Jackson, Jason Hammell, Jeff Niemann, Mitch Talbot, pitchers like that. Also Jason Bartlett is a decent shortstop, if you then signed Orlando Hudson using Ankiel's potential money, you'd have your 2B and SS and a pretty solid defensive duo.

Perhaps Ankiel and another part for Wade davis/Jeremy Hellickson, trevor Miller, Bartlett, and Hammel/Talbot/Niemann? Would that be a solid deal for us?

Avatar

Posted: 11/7/2008 2:13 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I think the Rays are pretty happy with Bartlett.  I would love to try to pry away Brignac.




This message was approved by the Easton Eye Test™.

Posted: 11/7/2008 2:46 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



easton714 wrote: I think the Rays are pretty happy with Bartlett.  I would love to try to pry away Brignac.


Same here, I was figuring they'd try to open a spot for brignac though.

 

Anyways:

"Baseball Prospectus' John Perrotto says the Twins are reportedly willing to trade Delmon Young to the Padres for Kevin Kouzmanoff."

If you traded Ankiel or Ludwick for a middle infield or other help, is there anyway you could package David freese with another player or two for that guy above ^Points to Delmon Young^

Posted: 11/7/2008 3:15 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



Cardsfan914 wrote:
easton714 wrote: I think the Rays are pretty happy with Bartlett.  I would love to try to pry away Brignac.


Same here, I was figuring they'd try to open a spot for brignac though.

 

Anyways:

"Baseball Prospectus' John Perrotto says the Twins are reportedly willing to trade Delmon Young to the Padres for Kevin Kouzmanoff."

If you traded Ankiel or Ludwick for a middle infield or other help, is there anyway you could package David freese with another player or two for that guy above ^Points to Delmon Young^

There's got to be a catch or Towers is an idiot for not making the trade before the Twins change their mind.

Posted: 11/7/2008 8:55 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Dr. Easton:

     Thanks for the diagnosis and I am also intersted in talent and production, which we sorely lacked in 08.   I just  do not believe we have any talent in the minor leagues that is that impressive (except Colby).  I would rather bundle them in groups and trade them for established productive talent no matter what they make.

Posted: 11/8/2008 1:16 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Cards Out On Jake Peavy: Link

Add Schumaker & Boggs To Ludwick For Holliday: Link
___________________________________

Cardinals Best News Links
Twitter
Avatar

Posted: 11/8/2008 11:35 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


If Ludwick AND Schumaker go, our outfield is going to get expensive.

We'll have to extend Holliday and extend Ankiel (unless we see one of the younger outfielders - Jones, Jay, etc - taking his place).

But, the plus is that we bring up Rasmus.  Sorry RC, I know that's contrary to belief.

This trade makes no sense to me.
Post New Topic
< Prev.  Page of 100  Next >