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Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED

Posted: 10/31/2008 8:00 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


in this mlbtraderumors....they propose an Edwin Jackson for Ryan Ludwick trade...seems pretty fair to me.

Edwin is only 25 and would be under team control for 3 more years.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/offseason-ou -14.html
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Posted: 10/31/2008 8:49 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



PadsFS wrote: in this mlbtraderumors....they propose an Edwin Jackson for Ryan Ludwick trade...seems pretty fair to me.

Edwin is only 25 and would be under team control for 3 more years.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/offseason-ou -14.html

He hasn't had an ERA+ higher than 101 since 2003 and his lowest ERA since 2004 was this year when he posted a 4.42.  He is also the definition of whiptastic.  He had a good year in 2003 with a 2.45 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, and a 164 ERA+  - but it was as a reliever in only 22 IP.  Since then it's been:

2004: 7.30 ERA, 1.70 WHIP, 56 ERA+
2005: 6.28 ERA, 1.67 WHIP, 65 ERA+
2006: 5.45 ERA, 1.84 WHIP, 85 ERA+
2007: 5.76 ERA, 1.76 WHIP, 78 ERA+
2008: 4.42 ERA, 1.51 WHIP, 101 ERA+

Terrible idea IMO.  That's trading one of the most valuable outfield bats in the game and our only major protection for Pujols for a borderline mediocre starter.  I know he's got great stuff, but he has serious control issues and hasn't shown that he can been better than a #5 starter.

Last edited 10/31/2008 8:49 AM by kotheb

Posted: 10/31/2008 9:07 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Ludwick isn't going anywhere IMO.  Then you would need two impact bats.  

Posted: 10/31/2008 9:21 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



PadsFS wrote: in this mlbtraderumors....they propose an Edwin Jackson for Ryan Ludwick trade...seems pretty fair to me.

Edwin is only 25 and would be under team control for 3 more years.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/offseason-ou -14.html

Unless they add Wade Davis or Reid Brignac, I wouldn't think twice about a resounding NO to that offer. And even with Davis or Brignac, I would still have to take time to consider whether to do that or not.
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Posted: 10/31/2008 11:07 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I read that there might be discussions between the White Sox and Angels regarding a swap of Paul Konerko and Chone Figgins...Konerko has a no trade clause and Chone signed a 3yr 10mil total deal...we have dealt with the Angels before

If we could snag Chone....for Mather to play 1st (or Duncan, but seems unlikely) plus another prospect like Craig or Freese to play 3rd for them (since they will be letting Chone go)...maybe we could get our upgrade at 2b and good bargain on one of the best leadoff guys in the league at a reasonable price...if we coudl somehow snag Brandon Wood or Sean Rodriguz in a slightly bigger deal (probably having to move Todd or possibly one of our young closer types (perez or Motte to help replace the loss of KRod).....

maybe:
Freese/Craig and Mather
for
Chone

then:
Skip
for
K. Greene

then:
sign Affeldt or Fuentes
sign a veteran OF bat that hits lefties well (on the cheap)

re-sign Lopez/Miles/LaRue/Springer/Welle/Ludwick extension

go into next year with:
Waino/Lohse/Welle/Carp/Piniero (boggs,todd,Morty in the wings)

Chone/Greene/Pujols/Ludwick/Glaus/Ankiel/Yadi/pitc h/Rasmus
or revert to pitcher hitting 9th and go with a lineup of Chone/Rasmus/Pujols/Ludwick/Glaus/Ankiel/Greene/Ya di/pitch

Fuentes or Affeldt/Franklin/Perez/McC/Spring/TJ/Motte or Kinney

LaRue/Miles/Lopez/veteran OF/Barton or Duncan

seem to be reasonable moves...

Posted: 10/31/2008 11:15 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Jackson + for Ludwick would be worth looking into but the + would have to be significant and meet at least one of our needs (MI, LH reliever, power bat (a need after Ludwick goes)) cheaply.

Posted: 10/31/2008 11:20 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I'm pretty sure most people think Figgins no longer has the range to play 2nd.  That's why his name hasn't come up recently.   If he does, it would be a good choice though it would take a little more than you are prosposing.

Posted: 10/31/2008 2:50 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Per mlbtraderumors:

Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times
says trading starter Javier Vazquez is Williams' top offseason priority.  Cowley believes Williams could look for an infielder in return.  Vazquez will earn $23MM over the next two seasons, and has a limited no-trade clause to block trades to NL and AL West teams.



Thoughts on Vazquez? He's 32 years old, had a 4.67 ERA this year. Has been a career underachiever for the most part. Could he work well with Duncan? His grounball/flyball ratio is right around 1 for his career, it was 0.98 last year. He won 15 games with a 3.74 ERA in 2007.

2008 numbers:
33 starts
208 1/3 IP
214 hits
25 homeruns
200 strikeouts
61 walks
4.67 ERA
1.32 WHIP


I would look into other priorities (LH relief, closer, middle infield) first, but he could be an interesting pickup for Duncan. He had ace type of stuff when he first came up, I'm not sure how he is nowadays.

Posted: 10/31/2008 3:23 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Vasquez would work for me but the Sox would have to take back Kennedy or Pineiro to make it work salary wise for us.
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Posted: 10/31/2008 4:55 PM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



PaytonP wrote:
kotheb wrote: It's extremely hard for me to justify trading Ludwick, not only based on the fact that he was one of the best players in baseball last year, but he's great defensively AND we have him under control for the next 3 years.

Ankiel, on the other hand, I say we explore trading and get ready to bring up Rasmus.

If Ludwick repeats what he did last year then I completely agree.

I agree completely, even if Luddys numbers take a 10-20 percent dive across the board. Kotheb well said!

Drive by......

Expect More!

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Posted: 11/2/2008 8:21 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Would the Cards make an offer to Chad Cordero this winter?  Cordero had labrum surgery, but is a young free agent at 27 and had success as a closer for the Expos/Nationals.  He could be a re-hab gamble like Clement last winter.  Some team should gamble on Cordero, even though labrum injuries can be tough to recover from.    

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Posted: 11/2/2008 8:30 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


NO!

GO CARDS!
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Posted: 11/2/2008 9:12 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



cardinalnationhouston wrote: NO!
I think you are right, it will not be the Cards.  Cordero will not get an offer from anyone until he shows scouts he can throw a fastball in the low 90s.   If he can rebuild arm strength, he will get a contract.  He is only 27, selected in the 2003 draft, already a free agent because the Expos brought him to the majors in 2003.   Given youth and experience as a closer, Cordero could become re-hab gamble, for a low price, for some team.

Posted: 11/2/2008 2:19 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


NO more injured pitcher signings.
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Posted: 11/2/2008 2:46 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



nathanleopoldjr wrote: NO more injured pitcher signings.

We signed Braden Looper post-arm operation.  Chris Carpenter provided a great value in 2004-6.  The Cards like to find good values.

Posted: 11/2/2008 2:55 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Everyone likes good value.  Looper was no bargain though.
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Posted: 11/2/2008 5:16 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I thought Looper's contract looked a lot better once he became a starter and after having a pretty decent 2008.  That contract would have been a burden if he was just a regular right hander coming out of the pen in the 6th or 7th innings.  It looks like he'll be a type B player so I hope the cards offer him arbitration.  He should get a multi-year deal somewhere so it would be nice to have the draft pick compensation.  If he for some reason he accepted the arbitration, we would just have extra protection in the rotation.

I would have no problem with and would actually hope the Cards offer Cordero a minor-league deal with a heavily incented contract if he makes the big league club.  BUT......only if they do not count on him at all to fill a role in the bullpen.  I would hope the mindset would be, hey we can give this guy a shot to make the team, but it won't hurt the team if he doesn't make it since we already have these other guys lined up.  Also, if he doesn't make the team, we don't owe him a lot of money.  Cordero might be able to get a guaranteed contract somewhere else, but if he doesn't, I would think St. Louis would be a desirable destination since he would at least be able to compete for a closer's role.

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Posted: 11/2/2008 9:06 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



CariocaCardinal wrote: Everyone likes good value.  Looper was no bargain though.
Braden took the ball every 5th day, was a team leader.   $5.5million was good value for a starting pitcher in 2008 with his time in service.  Money well spent.

Posted: 11/2/2008 10:52 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Looper pitches with heart but he is a number five and a .500 pitcher.  We need better than that  Carpenter was an exception and now we are getting burned.  NO more injured pitchers signed.
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Posted: 11/3/2008 7:28 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


It would be silly to refuse to look at injured players entirely.  There will always be value doing that.  What we should refuse to do going forward is sign them to large, multi-year contracts (Mulder, cough), while KNOWING they are still unhealthy.

How do you think we got Ludwick?  Is anyone on this proverbial boat interested in us signing Furcal or Hudson?  If so...I wonder why?

It would be bad business to not even kick the tires on people like Penny, Cordero, or even someone like Prior.  The mistake would be big guarantees (in money and expectations).

Nobody is suggesting that we should sign Cordero to a market value contract for a closer and hand him the job.  Same goes for Penny or Prior.  "Value" investing is not a naughty word...ask Warren Buffett.




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