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RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED

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Posted: 10/28/2008 11:09 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



kotheb wrote: It's extremely hard for me to justify trading Ludwick, not only based on the fact that he was one of the best players in baseball last year, but he's great defensively AND we have him under control for the next 3 years.

Ankiel, on the other hand, I say we explore trading and get ready to bring up Rasmus.

If Ludwick repeats what he did last year then I completely agree.

Ervin Baldwin unleashed 11-11-2008.
President of the SOB's.
de7ee64d.gif picture by shark86x

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Posted: 10/28/2008 11:57 AM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Welcome to the board Desmet and Dodgers fan! I feel that while luddy had a brilliant year last year i am not sure he can repeatit. I based my opinion on the fact that Cards have noone but Schu to bat leadoff and Ankiel has unlimited potential. As i have said here before i think Cards outfield as a whole ranks in the top 6 or 7 in ML Baseball and there is no need to trade any of them. Colby is a great prospect but has not EARNED a spot in St.louis yet. I think we should be looking for a leadoff type guy or at least an upgrade in middle of diamond. GO CARDS!

GO CARDS!

Posted: 10/28/2008 3:34 PM

RE: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



cardinalnationhouston wrote: I think we should be looking for a leadoff type guy or at least an upgrade in middle of diamond. GO CARDS!
If Schu isn't traded, then he is our lead-off guy.  Leading off has been Rasmus' slot in the minors.  Plus whoever we bring in to play 2B or SS could be that lead-off guy.

Posted: 10/29/2008 1:12 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


What do you think the Angels would need for Sean Rodriguez? They declined the option on Garrett Anderson and are losing Juan Rivera, and their outfield as a whole is pretty old, so would they have interest in getting a guy like Jon Jay or Shane Robinson? Or a younger outfielder. Basically two teams dealing a surplus with each other.

Sign Orlando Hudson *would be my Plan A*
Trade Jay/Shane Robinson for Rodriguez or some kind of deal like that

LF Skip Schumaker/2B Orlando Hudson
2B Orlando Hudson/CF Colby Rasmus
1B Albert Pujols
RF Ryan Ludwick
3B Troy Glaus/RF Rick Ankiel
RF Rick Ankiel/3B Troy Glaus
C Yadier Molina
Pitcher
SS Sean Rodriguez


Other options I've thought about recently:

The trade I'm not sure they would do, but:

CF Rick Ankiel
C Bryan Anderson
maybe a lower level pitching prospect

for

Hitter Billy Butler

Reasoning: I'm not sure that the Royals are willing to move Butler, but I don't think he was listed as one of the untouchables I saw earlier (obviously doesn't mean he's not), but the biggest issue with me with Butler is I don't remember how bad of an outfielder he is defensively. I know he had a good arm, but range and everything, he's 6'1" 240 listed height-weight, so how good of range can he have? He can hit though, and putting him eventually behind Rasmus-Pujols-Wallace would be a terror for pitchers. I know KC has a need for a centerfielder/power, starting pitching, and a young catcher. My guess is it'd take Rasmus to get Butler though, which is why I was just throwing this out there. 


The Kevin Gregg talk makes sense.  

Scott Olsen I've heard is available, and left handed hitters hit .187 against him this year with a .534 OPS, while RH batters hit .266 with a .794 OPS against him. In 2007 they hit better, but he had a terrible year. In 2006, LH batters hit .182 against him with a .572 OPS, so over three years, left handed hitters hit .233 against him with a .657 OPS.

I understand he's a talented starter, and the marlins will ask for starters value, but one has to wonder how well he'd do as a LH setup type for St. Louis.  

Last edited 10/29/2008 1:14 AM by Cardsfan914

Posted: 10/29/2008 7:01 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Cardsfan914 - That is insanely way to much to give up for a DH that the Cards can't even use.  Right now Ankiel has more value than Billy Butler.

To even think that the Royals would require Rasmus for a very average ML hitter is just insane.  I guess I am just not that impressed with his .282./.324/.420 career numbers in a decent hitters park there in KC.

Last edited 10/29/2008 7:03 AM by TCRedbird

Posted: 10/29/2008 9:42 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



TCRedbird wrote: Cardsfan914 - That is insanely way to much to give up for a DH that the Cards can't even use.  Right now Ankiel has more value than Billy Butler.

To even think that the Royals would require Rasmus for a very average ML hitter is just insane.  I guess I am just not that impressed with his .282./.324/.420 career numbers in a decent hitters park there in KC.


I understand the issue with defense, which would be the reason you wouldn't target a player like Butler who for an NL team with the best first baseman in the league, wouldn't have a position. But, statistically, he is only going to be 23 in April, so he still has room to develop. Just think about it, before this year, Carlos Quentin's line was even worse then Butler's. Both hitters hit well in the minors and scouts have said Butler could win a batting title some day. The biggest question for Butler is if he will be able to develop the power. If he can, then you're talking about a .300 hitter with 25-30 homeruns at least, and another hitter who is tough to strikeout.

If he's awful defensively though (I don't remember if he is or not, I remember him having a good arm though in the OF), then there's no reason to do a deal. It was just something I was throwing out there. He's got "breakout potential" written all over him after hitting .305 with an .817 OPS in the 2nd half.

And when I mentioned rasmus, I was saying that's what I think they'd ask for, but I obviously wouldn't trade Rasmus for Butler.

I still like the Angels idea though, but not really sure what it would take to get a guy like Sean Rodriguez.

Last edited 10/29/2008 9:44 AM by Cardsfan914

Posted: 10/30/2008 8:24 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


If i make a play for an Angel's SS it is Wood.  His offense would more than cover any defensive shortcomings.
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Posted: 10/30/2008 3:34 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


From the sames column on the NY Daily News site that I posted on the Peavy thread, I saw this and thought it was interesting.

"Meanwhile, the Marlins, coming off their surprising third-place 84-77 season despite an industry-low $22 million payroll, are expected to put out the "For Sale" sign on many of their young players who are heading into their first winter of being eligible for salary arbitration. There are 15 of them in all, including starting pitchers Josh JohnsonRicky Nolasco (who they will not trade). The others, such as lefty Scott Olsen, All-Star second baseman Dan Uggla, 32-homer first baseman Mike Jacobs, 22-homer outfielder Cody Ross, closer Kevin Gregg, handyman Alfredo Amezaga and the perennial tease, lefty-swinging outfielder Jeremy Hermida, all can be had." 

So what do you all think? Any current Marlins players you'd like the Cards to go after?
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Posted: 10/30/2008 4:03 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Gregg, and maybe Olsen (though he has been somewhat of an up and down pitcher).
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Posted: 10/30/2008 4:40 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



kotheb wrote: Gregg, and maybe Olsen (though he has been somewhat of an up and down pitcher).
Let's kill two birds with one stone and just sign Gregg Olson... although he's probably a bit over the hill by now.

But seriously, how about Uggla? 128 OPS from a 28-year old second baseman? I could live with that.
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Posted: 10/30/2008 4:48 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



SkinnyPimp wrote: But seriously, how about Uggla? 128 OPS from a 28-year old second baseman? I could live with that.

He's a terrible fielder, and we'd have to give up a king's ransom for him.  He'd imporove our team, for sure, but those are the negatives on him.



This user banned by Cardinal Nation Moderators. Rest in peace.

Posted: 10/30/2008 5:30 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Not a "trade rumor", but:

"According to Bill Ladson of MLB.com, Nationals reliever Chad Cordero was outrighted to Triple A today.  He refused the assignment and is now a free agent.  This comes as no surprise, as GM Jim Bowden admitted in July that he would non-tender Cordero.

Cordero, 26, had surgery in July to repair tears in his labrum and biceps tendon.  He hopes to be ready for spring training."


Cordero would be an interesting pickup for us. Give him an incentive based deal and the ability to compete for the closers role in spring training. This is a former all-star and finished 5th in a Cy Young race, holding a career ERA under 3. Labrums are pretty serious injuries I think, but his history backs up that kind of a pickup.

Plus we have a thing with Nationals players this year and this is another that plays a position we are looking for.

I could see trading for Kevin Gregg or something, getting Cordero, and then letting those two compete with Perez and Motte for the closers role. Might seem a bit extreme to get both Cordero and Gregg, but if you sign Cordero and he gets hurt/doesn't show progress and then perez/motte show they couldn't handle the job, then you are stuck in the same situation as 2008.

If you pickup both and still have Perez/Motte and you still don't have a closer, then well you must be the unluckiest team ever.

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Posted: 10/30/2008 5:48 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



AustinCardinal wrote:
SkinnyPimp wrote: But seriously, how about Uggla? 128 OPS from a 28-year old second baseman? I could live with that.

He's a terrible fielder, and we'd have to give up a king's ransom for him.  He'd imporove our team, for sure, but those are the negatives on him.

I gotta agree.  He totally destroys our team defense in a critical spot on the field.

Plus, even though he had a 128 OPS+ over the course of the season, he had a TERRIBLE second half:

.226/.343/.396/.739, 9 HR, 33 RBI in 65 games.

He had a 122 OPS+ in the first half and a 72 OPS+ in the second half.

I think this guy has some glossy stats, and granted if we got him I wouldn't do a ton of complaining, but we'd have to whip him into defensive shape really quick so as to not hurt our pitching staff and teach him to not such after the All-Star break.


EDIT:  And, as for Cordero, let's stay away from any other pitchers with shoulder problems.  Clement and Mulder were enough.

Last edited 10/30/2008 5:49 PM by kotheb

Posted: 10/30/2008 5:55 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I've predicted a Cordero signing in a few other threads.   I could live with a minor league deal.
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Posted: 10/30/2008 7:03 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I may be wrong on this Cardsfan but i think it is Coco cordero with Cincy that made the Allstar team. GO CARDS!

GO CARDS!
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Posted: 10/30/2008 7:18 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Chad Cordero was an All Star in 2005.

Francisco Cordero was an All Star in 2004 and 2007.

Posted: 10/30/2008 7:20 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



cardinalnationhouston wrote: I may be wrong on this Cardsfan but i think it is Coco cordero with Cincy that made the Allstar team. GO CARDS!


I was just saying in his career he does have an all-star appearance.

2005:
74 games
74 1/3 IP
47 saves
1.82 ERA
0.97 WHIP
All-star appearance
5th in Cy Young voting
14th in MVP voting

Career ERA is 2.78. The highest ERA he has had for a season is 3.36, which he had in 2007.

Posted: 10/30/2008 9:27 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


We should sign Cordero because we have to have someone to replace Clement. Carpenter will replace Mulder.
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Posted: 10/30/2008 10:24 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



kotheb wrote: Plus, even though he had a 128 OPS+ over the course of the season, he had a TERRIBLE second half:

.226/.343/.396/.739, 9 HR, 33 RBI in 65 games.

He had a 122 OPS+ in the first half and a 72 OPS+ in the second half.


How is it possible to have a 122 OPS+ in one half of the season, a 72 OPS+ in the other half, and have them average out to a 128 OPS+ over the full season?



This user banned by Cardinal Nation Moderators. Rest in peace.
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Posted: 10/30/2008 10:57 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



AustinCardinal wrote:

How is it possible to have a 122 OPS+ in one half of the season, a 72 OPS+ in the other half, and have them average out to a 128 OPS+ over the full season?


Actually I messed up.  I should've put 161 for the first half and 95 for the second half.  I was looking at tOPS+ when I should've looked at sOPS+

You can find it at www.baseball-reference.com.  Click the pull down menu and select his splits for 2008, and look at his sOPS+ for the 1st and 2nd halves.  sOPS+ is "OPS+ of this split relative to the major league OPS for this split."  In this case, his first half performance and his second half performance.

It still states that he was a below average hitter in the 2nd half, just not quite as bad as I made him out to be

Last edited 10/30/2008 10:58 PM by kotheb

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