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TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED

Posted: 9/4/2008 7:52 PM

TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


(Note: The original 100-page thread has been moved to the "Archives" board, which is listed at the bottom of our forum list. Here is the direct link to the old thread: link)


I see the original stickied thread has reached the limit of posts allowed.  I guess it is time to start a new one.

On the old board that there was a similar post that got a lot of traffic and the tradition has continued here. Please post anything trade or rumor related here and see if we can fill up another thread.  The more we post here, the more space we have to start other topics without good discussions falling off.  I think a lot of us here enjoy reading the rumors and ideas everyone has. Plus it allows for a nice spot for people to throw out their own ideas and see what everyone else thinks.

I have to give Jager the credit for some of the wording here as it was pulled from his opening post on the other trade and rumor thread.

Last edited 9/30/2008 3:26 PM by Domeboys

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Posted: 9/5/2008 8:51 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Thanks for starting this new thread Forsch and thanks for the compliment...it is a nice area to vent on ideas you have rolling through your head and also having a dedicated place to post rumors and recent moves of this and other teams. Maybe we can get another 50 pages!

Anyways, I hope one of the Moderators doesn't move the old one too quick to the archive section...just in case someone didnt have a chance to continue their thoughts. Maybe a week and the other one should get moved to the archive? Sounds about right...and man i would hate to lose some of the information and babble in that topic...some good stuff in there...truly.
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Posted: 9/5/2008 9:40 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



CariocaCardinal wrote: Why offer Looper arbitration if there is no pick involved?   Just settle on a one year deal with him at a price you find acceptable or don't sign him.

Hard to believe there is almost no difference between Looper an Piniero especially since Piniero spent a good part of last year in the minors.


If we don't offer him arbitration, wouldn't there be a window of time (after he doesn't accept it) that we could not negotiate with him?  Plus, on the chance that he accepts (unlikely), that is the best case scenario.  I would love to have a solid vet starter on a one year deal.



This user banned by Cardinal Nation Moderators. Rest in peace.

Last edited 9/5/2008 9:41 AM by AustinCardinal

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Posted: 9/5/2008 10:16 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


The question then becomes whether we save money through arbitration or through negotiating a new contract.

 

If we only want him for one year, arb seems the way to go.

Posted: 9/5/2008 10:51 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



AustinCardinal wrote:
CariocaCardinal wrote: Why offer Looper arbitration if there is no pick involved?   Just settle on a one year deal with him at a price you find acceptable or don't sign him.

Hard to believe there is almost no difference between Looper an Piniero especially since Piniero spent a good part of last year in the minors.


If we don't offer him arbitration, wouldn't there be a window of time (after he doesn't accept it) that we could not negotiate with him?  Plus, on the chance that he accepts (unlikely), that is the best case scenario.  I would love to have a solid vet starter on a one year deal.

Carioca, you are right.  You don't need to offer arbitration to Looper unless he is a Type B.  Either sign him to a 1 year contract or let him walk.  After 2009, he should be able to be replaced by someone like Todd or Mortensen or Boggs.  Looper seems to be a stable, fairly consistant starter.  He usually doesn't give you a shutout type game but does give you a 6 inning 1-4 runs allowed game.  Leaving you a chance to win.

With the new agreement, there is no window of negotiation limitations.  The free agent is able to negotiate with any team, including the one he just played with, at any time.  Offering arbitration does not affect his negotiations unless he accepts the arb offer.
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Posted: 9/6/2008 8:49 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Just sign Lowe for god sakes.

Carp
Adam
Lowe
Welly
Piniero, K-MAC, Boggs,...

but really let the best guy have the job! I think it would be K-MAC. I think he would be more effective and less tired going out there every 5 days then being overused in the pen. Plus off season conditioning will continue to make him stronger. I think K-MAC in your 5th spot with that rotation you have a playoff rotation

Hopefully you can unload Piniero if you eat some salary. We can use Boggs, Todd, Worell, Morty, Motte, Perrez, etc in the pen we don't need Jo-el

Posted: 9/6/2008 8:56 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



jaym123 wrote: Just sign Lowe for god sakes.

Carp
Adam
Lowe
Welly
Piniero, K-MAC, Boggs,...

but really let the best guy have the job! I think it would be K-MAC. I think he would be more effective and less tired going out there every 5 days then being overused in the pen. Plus off season conditioning will continue to make him stronger. I think K-MAC in your 5th spot with that rotation you have a playoff rotation

Hopefully you can unload Piniero if you eat some salary. We can use Boggs, Todd, Worell, Morty, Motte, Perrez, etc in the pen we don't need Jo-el
I don't think they're ready to move these guys to the pen until they prove they aren't starters.  Even if they did move one of them to "break" them in, they won't move all three to the pen.  Also, Franklin is under contract for next year.
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Posted: 9/6/2008 9:11 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I agree Morty is a stretch as a reliever,

but let Todd and Boggs get experience getting ML hitters out and transition them to a starting role in 2010, or give them a start if someone goes down
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Posted: 9/7/2008 3:22 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Here is a thought, since this is trade rumors and ideas. What do you all think about Brandon Wood? Think he has worn out his welcome in Anaheim/LA? Think he is worth a Rick Ankiel? I doubt that....but maybe LA/Ana would like an Ankiel to replace garret anderson next season and would give up a Brandon Wood AND a young reliever like Jose Arredondo. Maybe we have to add a low level prospect or two to get this done like Additon or something, but what do you guys think.

Trading Ankiel for a package like this gives us an excellent young cheap reliever, a very powerful young CHEAP short stop, and it opens up a spot for the young and cheap Rasmus! The only question really is, does Ana do this? Is there any reason for them to do a move like that. Maybe throwing in that stud reliever is a bit of a stretch.

The other question I guess.....is Wood now considered just a 3b? Can he handle short?

I really like Brandon wood.....I think trading Ankiel makes the most sense. It allows us the payroll flexibility to add an Orlando Hudson to play 2b AND a Derek Lowe if we so desire.

I guess we could see what the contract status is of Nomar.....and see if he wants to play SS in st louis.

Just some thoughts to stimulate conversation.

Drive by......

Expect More!

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Posted: 9/7/2008 6:31 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


The problem is the Angels logjam in the outfield.

They've got a RFer and two CFers all signed to big contracts plus they've got (as you said) Anderson and also they've got Willits and Rivera.

There's just too much there to fit in another outfielder.
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Posted: 9/7/2008 6:56 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


if we add hudson and lowe in the offseason i think we're a 90+ win team.
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Posted: 9/7/2008 7:45 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



duckymedwick7 wrote: if we add hudson and lowe in the offseason i think we're a 90+ win team.

I think it makes us better than that.

We could still win 90 games this year and we don't have Carp in the rotation, missed Waino for a few months, didn't have Hudson, and didn't have Lowe.

Imagine a rotation of Carp, Waino, Lowe, Wellemeyer, whoever and then add in some pop in the middle infield (maybe Hudson at 2B and Lopez at SS??).

We'd have an excellent team (not to mention the upgrades in the bullpen now that Perez is in the closer spot).
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Posted: 9/7/2008 9:18 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 




----duckymedwick7 wrote: ---------------

if we add hudson and lowe in the offseason i think we're a 90+ win team.

---------------------------------------------

i'd take those moves and then just add one more Affeldt for our LHP in the pen..might be able to get Randy Flores back real cheap too if we wanted...

so:
Lowe
Hudson
Affeldt
LaRue
Lopez
maybe flores
maybe Miles
move Kennedy and hopefully get someone to pay half his salary

Posted: 9/7/2008 9:41 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


I think Brandon Wood would be excellent for this club as he could play SS next year and slide over to 3rd if none of the other candidates can handle it there. It would give us a lot of flexability.   I'd give up Ankiel for him with the cost difference.

Posted: 9/7/2008 10:21 PM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


"While the Tigers are an early front-runner for Francisco Rodriguez's services, don't rule out the Cardinals. They will likely fall short of a playoff berth because of their bullpen. Through Friday, they had 30 blown saves and 30 bullpen losses, both worst in the league. They've lost 12 games on walkoff hits, 21 losses have come in the opponent's last at-bat, and 14 losses came after they led through seven innings. While Dave Duncan is a tremendous pitching coach, he is not a magician."

No Relief In Site
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Posted: 9/8/2008 12:09 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



CariocaCardinal wrote: I think Brandon Wood would be excellent for this club as he could play SS next year and slide over to 3rd if none of the other candidates can handle it there. It would give us a lot of flexability.   I'd give up Ankiel for him with the cost difference.

Does Ankiel fit with/work for the Angels?

They'd have to give up/get rid of a few outfielders before he'd work.

Posted: 9/8/2008 1:36 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


If we want to use Ankiel in a trade to get Wood maybe we involve a 3rd team.  If LA doesn't want to add another outfielder, someone else would probably love to get Ankiel in a 3-way deal.

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Posted: 9/8/2008 7:19 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 



jrocke217 wrote:
No Relief In Site
I found the next paragraph also interesting.
Hampton has something left
Mike Hampton, who turns 36 Tuesday, will likely pitch himself into a new contract - believe it or not - after his eight-year, $121 million deal ends this year. While it was one of the greatest bust deals ever, Hampton has gone 1-1 with a 3.81 ERA in his last four outings, all quality starts. He is resigned to the fact that he won't be back in Atlanta. But a lefty is a lefty, right? "It'll be a one-year deal somewhere," said a National League GM, "but given the way he's throwing, I'll bet you there'll be a few teams - especially in the National League - who will be after him."
How about a 1 year deal for Hampton?
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Posted: 9/8/2008 9:28 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


sounds like an idea Oquendo... i like Lowe's groundball outs a lot...but Hampton would look good to me as a reclamation (and you know TLR woudl loe his versatility as a hitting pitcher...if he still can)...1 year contracts makes sense to me...then we coudl maybe spend that money somewhere else...OF bat? SS or 2b upgrade? K Rod??? He still is pretty young and just about as dominant as you can ask for...he woudl immediately fix our pen (minus another lefty stopper of course)...

5 years 75mil is what he wants i think...15mil isn't that bad really...and keeps him under the Pujols top out number...

Hampton-1 yr 5mil
Krod- 5 yrs 75mil (15mil) (backload?)
Lopez-1 yr 3.5 mil
Hudson- 4yrs 32 mil (8mil) (backload?)
move half of Kennedy's salary and him +2mil
Welle arb-1 yr 5mil?
FA LHP (Affeldt)- 2yrs 7mil (3.5)
Ludwick arb-??? (5mil?)
Ankiel arb-??? (5mil?)
LaRue-1 yr 2mil
TOTAL(ish)=50mil

(and all the raises)

that's still a bunch of cash...we woudl undoubtedly have to move Ankiel and/or Piniero just to get this started...still KRod is lights out ..period... his presence this year in our pen woudl probably have us with the best record in baseball regardless of our other bullpen woes and offensive inconsistency and injuries to position players and starting pitchers..

when i will look back on 2008 theo nly thing truly cost us consistantly the whole year was the back end oft he pen...namely the closer...we can talk about more production from the middle infielders being nice and our 2 aces being hurt...but regardless oft hat we would still be the best team with a big time closer..period...and Krod is not just a period..he is an exclamation point
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Posted: 9/8/2008 10:59 AM

Re: TRADES/RUMORS/TRADE IDEAS - CONTINUED 


Glad Mozeliak is our G.M
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