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September 1st Roster Expansion

Posted: 8/26/2014 4:17 PM

September 1st Roster Expansion 


I am surprised this has not been brought up already. I am curious to know who will be called up on or after September 1st.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:00 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


So far, we know Greg Garcia wiil be back on Sept.1.  Besides that, I would think Siegrist is a possibility.  Gonzales once Memphis is done.  If Cruz goes down when Yadi returns, then him on Sept. 1.  Wacha will also be back.  Robinson may be back depending on the injury.  Grichuk will be here. Lyons will be here. Kozma might get a spot on the bench as a courtesy.  

The Cards do not have a history of adding a guy to the 40 man for purposes of a Sept call up, so anybody like Piscotty or Pham is a real long shot.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 3:53 AM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


i would be absolutely shocked if one of two things doesn't happen -- heck i'd be at least a little surprised if both didn't happen.

either :

1.  we make a late august trade to strengthen our bench
2.  pham is on the september and then playoff roster in some way shape or form

for the playoffs...  i just don't see someone like bourjos or robinson making it over pham.  similar skill sets but pham is a much, much better hitter in bourjos' case (bourjos is better defensively but i don't think it is by nearly as much as he is over jay).  in robinson's case he's just flat a better player.  as for grichuk (the other option) ... well... let's just say i know who had a better year.

injuries could play a role, but we have that open roster spot... albeit wacha will take it up at some point being removed from the 60-day.  that's the only reason i think things might get a little messy, but i could see them putting robinson, ellis or motte on the 60 day and riding it out until the offseason.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 7:24 AM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


Pham is not going to play in September if he's called up. (I hope he does, mind you)

Furthermore, he won't be on the playoff roster over Bourjos. That isn't happening.

Playoff bench will include Descalso, Cruz, Pierzynski, Bourjos, and likely Robinson or Grichuk.

Last edited 8/27/2014 7:24 AM by PadsFS

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Posted: 8/27/2014 11:19 AM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


I hope he eventually heals, but I don't want Robinson back, ever, on this baseball team.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:03 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


I 100% agree about Pham in Sept, but in the playoffs I wouldn't be so sure.  Bourjos is going to be on the team and then after that I think it comes down to Grichuk and Robinson.  Pham on the 2015 Cardinals is hopefully a "for sure" as 5th OF, or 4th OF even. 

Regarding Marco G., I have a question that I'm 99% sure I know the answer to, but time on the ML roster in Sept counts just like any other time correct?

Chances are Marco won't get many, if any, significant innings in September, and probably won't start 2015 with the Club either.  
Waino, Lackey, Wacha, Lynn, Miller, CMart, and don't forget about Gast, Cooney and Lyons, plenty of teams wouldn't mind them as the 5th guy in the rotation, so assuming they don't think he'll be on the ML club until mid summer or so, would they waste service time on the ML roster for some possible mop up innings this year.  Even if he came up in June, at least then they would have team control over him through 2021 even if he ends up going to arb 4 times.  Sorry, just thinking in the holding off FA once again......
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:09 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



PadsFS wrote: Pham is not going to play in September if he's called up. (I hope he does, mind you)

Furthermore, he won't be on the playoff roster over Bourjos. That isn't happening.

Playoff bench will include Descalso, Cruz, Pierzynski, Bourjos, and likely Robinson or Grichuk.
Pham has had his ups and downs with his only downs seeming to be random injuries, but I love him as a long term CF possibility.  I, as well, hope he comes up and shows his "tools" in Sept and then is given a real shot next year.  

With all of his minors drama, it would be a hell of a story if he could step in and be an above average CF with a .280 - 12-15HR and 15 SB line.  He is 26 so it's a now or never situation..... with the Cardinals at least.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:35 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


Perhaps one factor in not bringing Pham up right now is that he is cold, batting .227 over the last week - 5-for-22 with seven strikeouts.
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:38 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



CardsInChitown wrote: ...Pham on the 2015 Cardinals is hopefully a "for sure" as 5th OF, or 4th OF even...
An interesting choice of words. Considering the limited opportunity to prove himself, I consider it more "unlikely".
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/27/2014 2:02 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



Domeboys wrote:
CardsInChitown wrote: ...Pham on the 2015 Cardinals is hopefully a "for sure" as 5th OF, or 4th OF even...
An interesting choice of words. Considering the limited opportunity to prove himself, I consider it more "unlikely".
I would say that next year's opening day roster in the way of reserves will depend some, maybe quite a bit, on who looks the best in Spring Training.

So it's a total unknown at this point.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 5:33 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



CardsInChitown wrote:
Regarding Marco G., I have a question that I'm 99% sure I know the answer to, but time on the ML roster in Sept counts just like any other time correct?

 All it does is start that player's service time clock. So for Marco, he is likely going to be on the team in 2015 in some capacity anyway, which will count as his 1st yr service.

It doesn't count, for instance, toward Grichuk's rookie eligibility for 2015.

Grichuk has been on the roster for:

4/28: Mem IF Greg Garcia, OF Randal Grichuk to StL. StL 2B Kolten Wong, OF Shane Robinson to Mem. RHR Joe Scanio to Peo DL. RHR Jhonny Polanco from SC to Peo.

 

5/9: OF Joey Butler to 40-man, from Mem to StL. OF Randal Grichuk from StL to Mem.

 

12 days

 

5/30: OF Randal Grichuk from Mem to StL. OF Shane Robinson from StL to Mem. OF Ronald Castillo off Peo DL. RHR Robert Stock from SC to Peo.

 

6/15: LHR Nick Greenwood onto 40-man, from Mem to StL. OF Randal Grichuk from StL to Mem. RHR Jose Almarante off Mem DL. RHS Scott McGregor released. OF Mike O’Neill from Mem to Spr. IF Greg Miclat to Spr DL. C Gerwuins Velazco from Peo to PB. New organization total: 273 players.

 

 

17 days


and now another 6-7 days this week for a total of 35-40 days, or less than the rookie eligibility requirements. Plus he won't likely get the requisite plate appearances either.

He'll stay a prospect for another year, and a good one too, being more or less MLB ready at only 22 years old. He didn't have a great year at AAA, but if he busts out again next spring, he'll be ready to go.

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Posted: 8/27/2014 5:42 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



Domeboys wrote:
CardsInChitown wrote: ...Pham on the 2015 Cardinals is hopefully a "for sure" as 5th OF, or 4th OF even...
An interesting choice of words. Considering the limited opportunity to prove himself, I consider it more "unlikely".




Going into the season, we had a wealth of outfielders:

Holliday, Bourjos, Jay, Craig, and Robinson at STL
Taveras, Grichuk, Piscotty, Pham, and Butler at Memphis
O'Neill, Ramsey, Ortega, Rodriguez at Springfield.

Craig, Butler, and Ramsey are now gone.

Ortega, O'Neill, and Rodriguez had poor seasons.

Therefore, next year, all of a sudden, we have a lot of gaps:

STL next year: Holliday, Bourjos, Jay, Taveras, +1

Memphis next year: Grichuk, Piscotty, .......

I'd put Pham in that fifth spot over Robinson, or at least as a placeholder in Memphis. But the two of them are the only ones to fill those spots (plus O'Neill I suppose)
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Posted: 8/27/2014 6:17 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


O'Neill and Ortega are already at Memphis. I would guess that if Pham is not put on the 40-man, he would try elsewhere. Robinson is still around until he is not. I haven't added up his service time, but he could end up being a Super two and get non-tendered. Triple-A outfielders are plentiful on the free agent market if they decide to go there.
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/27/2014 7:18 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


Shane came into the 2014 season with 2.030 years of service time.  I'm guessing he would have needed about 100 or so days on the 25-man roster to get close to Super Two (isn't the cutoff usually around 2.130?) so I don't think he'll make it.

OTOH, was this his last option year?  If so, then we can't send him down next spring and might have to cut him loose anyway, or outright him off the roster.

Or, he could, you know, have a good spring and still make this team.  He is, after all, still a .206 lifetime pinch-hitter (21-for-102) not including postseason.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 10:43 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


Pads-

Only 5 on the playoff bench?  Might well be, but I wonder if they go with 6 instead, with one more infielder, likely Ellis, possibly Kozma.  Descalso and Pierzynski  as lefty pinch hitters, Grichuk/Robinson and Ellis as righty pinch hitters. Bourjos  Kozma and Cruz as emergency and/or defensive  subs.  Not very scary, but what we have.

Hopefully a rotation of Waino, Lackey, Lynn, Wacha.  Rosenthal, Neshek, Martinez, Maness right, Choate and Freeman or Siegrist left, Miller long relief.

Greenwood, Lyons, Masterson, and possibly Freeman from the current staff wouldn't then make it.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 11:31 PM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 


Good point - since you don't need five starters in postseason, we only have to carry 11 pitchers - which enables us to go with 14 position players (8 starters and 6 on the bench).
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Posted: 8/28/2014 5:37 AM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



Gagliano wrote: Pads-

Only 5 on the playoff bench?  Might well be, but I wonder if they go with 6 instead, with one more infielder, likely Ellis, possibly Kozma.  Descalso and Pierzynski  as lefty pinch hitters, Grichuk/Robinson and Ellis as righty pinch hitters. Bourjos  Kozma and Cruz as emergency and/or defensive  subs.  Not very scary, but what we have.

Hopefully a rotation of Waino, Lackey, Lynn, Wacha.  Rosenthal, Neshek, Martinez, Maness right, Choate and Freeman or Siegrist left, Miller long relief.

Greenwood, Lyons, Masterson, and possibly Freeman from the current staff wouldn't then make it.



Great point. I forgot about the extra starter. It would likely be Ellis. He's suppose to be back by the end of the season I think.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 5:39 AM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



Domeboys wrote: O'Neill and Ortega are already at Memphis. I would guess that if Pham is not put on the 40-man, he would try elsewhere. Robinson is still around until he is not. I haven't added up his service time, but he could end up being a Super two and get non-tendered. Triple-A outfielders are plentiful on the free agent market if they decide to go there.


Of course Robinson is still around until he's not, but I think all three of these guys won't be in the system next year.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 6:34 AM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



PadsFS wrote:
Domeboys wrote: O'Neill and Ortega are already at Memphis. I would guess that if Pham is not put on the 40-man, he would try elsewhere. Robinson is still around until he is not. I haven't added up his service time, but he could end up being a Super two and get non-tendered. Triple-A outfielders are plentiful on the free agent market if they decide to go there.


Of course Robinson is still around until he's not, but I think all three of these guys won't be in the system next year.
OK, but just to be clear, to which three of the four named are you referring?
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/28/2014 7:13 AM

Re: September 1st Roster Expansion 



Domeboys wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
Domeboys wrote: O'Neill and Ortega are already at Memphis. I would guess that if Pham is not put on the 40-man, he would try elsewhere. Robinson is still around until he is not. I haven't added up his service time, but he could end up being a Super two and get non-tendered. Triple-A outfielders are plentiful on the free agent market if they decide to go there.


Of course Robinson is still around until he's not, but I think all three of these guys won't be in the system next year.
OK, but just to be clear, to which three of the four named are you referring?



I didn't see Pham's name in there. I meant O'Neill, Ortega, and Robinson.

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