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Blown Saves = BS

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Posted: 8/18/2014 11:25 PM

Blown Saves = BS 


TR is now closing in on the league leaders from non-contenders Arizona and Miami in this dubious stat.

Congrats!
Atlanta Braves: 13 years since their last NLCS, 15 since their last World Series - LOL!  Must be the infield fly rule's fault!
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:24 AM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 


He's 36 of 41 now.  We are lucky he's not 30 of 41, or something close to that.  Man oh man is he terrible.

Rat
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:33 AM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



RatsBuddy wrote: He's 36 of 41 now.  We are lucky he's not 30 of 41, or something close to that.  Man oh man is he terrible.

Rat
Add his 1-6 won-lost record and it looks even worse. Meanwhile Neshek is 5-0 with 4 saves, an ERA of 0.86, has allowed on 24 hits in 52 innings and has fanned 57 while walking only six batters. Hellfar, Rosie has almost walked that many in one game.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:50 AM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



ageelaw wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote: He's 36 of 41 now.  We are lucky he's not 30 of 41, or something close to that.  Man oh man is he terrible.

Rat
Add his 1-6 won-lost record and it looks even worse. Meanwhile Neshek is 5-0 with 4 saves, an ERA of 0.86, has allowed on 24 hits in 52 innings and has fanned 57 while walking only six batters. Hellfar, Rosie has almost walked that many in one game.
I wouldn't mind giving Neshek another chance to close, but it is not like in his one chance he was great or anything...in fact he was not good at all.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:41 AM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 


This situation has been visible since June. Having wirtnessed a brutal appearance by Rosenthal where Matheny brought him in to get four outs, and it took 41  pitches, it was obvious that a problem lurked on the horizon. It was one of those things that you could sense was not a one game aberration, but rather that Rosenthal had issues with his command of pitches, especially off speed stuff. And even his fastball was not being missed by much. Lots more fouls than swings and misses. 

Plus the fact that Matheny uses his closer too much in games that you're probably going to win anyway. In fact, in that four out save game, he brought Rosenthal in with two outs in the 8th with none on as Freeman had easily disposed of the first two, and a one run lead. Why not at least see if Freeman could get the third guy, as he'd only thrown eight pitches to get the first two? Turns out Rosenthal comes in, gets the third guy, then we score 2 more in the 9th to take a three run lead. Had he kept eft Rosenthal back for the ninth and we made it a three run game, maybe you do not even use him and you save a brutal appearance. 

Back then I was calling for Matheny to get Motte up to speed to resume closing by mid August, But of course that was sabotaged, and may not have worked anyway unless Motte was truly healed and ready to go and just needed to get the rust off.  Now I'm not sure what you do other than either use Neshek to close and see how that goes,  mixing  Martinez in to the set up roll hoping he'll be sharper this time around, or keep Rosenthal on a short leash while still giving him the main opportunities.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:58 AM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 


An outsider, Rob Neyer of FOX Sports, has a measured view of the Rosenthal situation.
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:11 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



Domeboys wrote: An outsider, Rob Neyer of FOX Sports, has a measured view of the Rosenthal situation.

Perhaps closing is a role Rosenthal is not inclined to embrace, consciously or otherwise. A closer's mentality is half the requirement and we know he wants to eventually be a starter. Taking responsibility away from a closer would be a blow to the ego in most cases, but maybe not for Rosenthal. Maybe a shared/situational arrangement with Neshek to lower the weight off his shoulders could improve his psyche, because the last two outings where he has been booed by the home fans certainly can put a guy on shaky ground in that regard. I don't think the article referenced above mentioned it, but in addition to the blown saves, Rosenthal has lost 4 games this season when he has entered tied games. It's time for Matheny to try to put Rosenthal in a better position to be successful to build him back up for the final stretch.

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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:11 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 


He's always said he wants to be a starter.

 Suggested U. of Illinois mascots

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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:51 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



619illinibooyah wrote: He's always said he wants to be a starter.
Somehow I doubt those thoughts are at the front of his mind right now..
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:38 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



ageelaw wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote: He's 36 of 41 now.  We are lucky he's not 30 of 41, or something close to that.  Man oh man is he terrible.

Rat
Add his 1-6 won-lost record and it looks even worse. Meanwhile Neshek is 5-0 with 4 saves, an ERA of 0.86, has allowed on 24 hits in 52 innings and has fanned 57 while walking only six batters. Hellfar, Rosie has almost walked that many in one game.
I am not going to try to say he's magnificent because he hasn't been.  I think he has been overused.

I am also not going to try to debate with you guys.  If you really think he's a terrible pitcher....eek1
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Posted: 8/19/2014 4:10 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



forsch31 wrote:
 
I am not going to try to say he's magnificent because he hasn't been.  I think he has been overused.

I am also not going to try to debate with you guys.  If you really think he's a terrible pitcher....eek1
I will not say Rosie is terrible, but I don't agree with MM assertion that all the saves Rosie has is the true barometer of his season to date.  Frankly with his struggles it amazing that Rosie hasn't been roughed up worse.  MM has been brutal with day to day managing of workloads..
Look at Maness struggles early in the season as an example.  Once Maness got a fair workload he improved.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 5:11 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



forsch31 wrote:
ageelaw wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote: He's 36 of 41 now.  We are lucky he's not 30 of 41, or something close to that.  Man oh man is he terrible.

Rat
Add his 1-6 won-lost record and it looks even worse. Meanwhile Neshek is 5-0 with 4 saves, an ERA of 0.86, has allowed on 24 hits in 52 innings and has fanned 57 while walking only six batters. Hellfar, Rosie has almost walked that many in one game.
I am not going to try to say he's magnificent because he hasn't been.  I think he has been overused.

I am also not going to try to debate with you guys.  If you really think he's a terrible pitcher....eek1
Rosenthal is a very good pitcher, but he has been overused and now his confidence is shaken and his command is absolutely awful. Let Neshek close for a couple of weeks and allow Rosie to get his head screwed back on straight. 
Hilarious post above saying 1. that Neshek was terrible in his one chance (he actually has four saves already) and in the "chance" referred to by the poster, Neshek allowed one run. Just wondering if above poster is related to MM??
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:32 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 


I'm so tired of the way modern athletes have to be pampered and sheltered by their coaches so as not to harm their "confidence".

Give me the old Lombardi attitude - produce or else.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:43 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 


hes lost the closer "swag".

prob gone for a while
 "we all dream about the Hogs from time to time.. its our bond"
us
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:47 PM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



ageelaw wrote:
forsch31 wrote:
ageelaw wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote: He's 36 of 41 now.  We are lucky he's not 30 of 41, or something close to that.  Man oh man is he terrible.

Rat
Add his 1-6 won-lost record and it looks even worse. Meanwhile Neshek is 5-0 with 4 saves, an ERA of 0.86, has allowed on 24 hits in 52 innings and has fanned 57 while walking only six batters. Hellfar, Rosie has almost walked that many in one game.
I am not going to try to say he's magnificent because he hasn't been.  I think he has been overused.

I am also not going to try to debate with you guys.  If you really think he's a terrible pitcher....eek1
Rosenthal is a very good pitcher, but he has been overused and now his confidence is shaken and his command is absolutely awful. Let Neshek close for a couple of weeks and allow Rosie to get his head screwed back on straight. 
Hilarious post above saying 1. that Neshek was terrible in his one chance (he actually has four saves already) and in the "chance" referred to by the poster, Neshek allowed one run. Just wondering if above poster is related to MM??
Yeah he gave up a bomb and then gave up another double after that, wasn't an easy save.....as for saying related to MM?  you are a real piece of work
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Posted: 8/20/2014 5:53 AM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



ageelaw wrote: Rosenthal is a very good pitcher, but he has been overused and now his confidence is shaken and his command is absolutely awful. Let Neshek close for a couple of weeks and allow Rosie to get his head screwed back on straight. 
Hilarious post above saying 1. that Neshek was terrible in his one chance (he actually has four saves already) and in the "chance" referred to by the poster, Neshek allowed one run. Just wondering if above poster is related to MM??


My issue with this is that you are making it sound like a cause and effect situation to blame Matheny or the "workload".

Rosenthal has been pretty spotty with command since the very beginning of the season. In his first 16 games, he walked 12 guys!

If anything, Rosenthal's control has, more recently, caused him to miss over the plate more, resulting in harder hit balls.

His LD% given up has gone from a high 26.7%, to an astounding 40.0%! His BABIP has gone from a manageable .314 to .429.

He went from being wild and unhittable to being both wild and extremely hittable. I don't think that has anything to do with workload though. He probably doesn't know where the ball is going a lot of times and got away with it for a good portion of the season.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 6:34 AM

Re: Blown Saves = BS 



PadsFS wrote:
ageelaw wrote: Rosenthal is a very good pitcher, but he has been overused and now his confidence is shaken and his command is absolutely awful. Let Neshek close for a couple of weeks and allow Rosie to get his head screwed back on straight. 
Hilarious post above saying 1. that Neshek was terrible in his one chance (he actually has four saves already) and in the "chance" referred to by the poster, Neshek allowed one run. Just wondering if above poster is related to MM??


My issue with this is that you are making it sound like a cause and effect situation to blame Matheny or the "workload".

Rosenthal has been pretty spotty with command since the very beginning of the season. In his first 16 games, he walked 12 guys!

If anything, Rosenthal's control has, more recently, caused him to miss over the plate more, resulting in harder hit balls.

His LD% given up has gone from a high 26.7%, to an astounding 40.0%! His BABIP has gone from a manageable .314 to .429.

He went from being wild and unhittable to being both wild and extremely hittable. I don't think that has anything to do with workload though. He probably doesn't know where the ball is going a lot of times and got away with it for a good portion of the season.
Sounds logical alright. So now Birds have two guys in the bullpen who can throw it through a car wash and have it come out the other end dry, unless it hits a side wall or other object in the car wash and never makes the exit. Rosenthal, Martinez.
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