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Pat Neshek for Cy Young?

Posted: 8/14/2014 11:36 AM

Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


The suggestion may not be as dumb as it seems.  Reality tells us the award will never be given to a reliever, but this guy has been a consistent unhittable machine all along the way.  What would our record be without him?
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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:42 AM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


Granted, Neshek has been a valuable set up man, but that doesn't necessarily make him the most valuable reliever on the team, let alone more valuable than Wainwright. Then you have Kershaw, who is being rumored to have a good shot of being both MVP and Cy winners.

Especially as a set up man, Neshek has only a very slightly better chance of winning the Cy Young Award than you do. ;-)
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter

Last edited 8/14/2014 11:43 AM by Domeboys

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Posted: 8/14/2014 12:01 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


So far Neshek is on pace for one of, if not the, best season in Cardinals history as a reliever. He has a ways to go still, but take a look at some of the other top performances in club history. Beats 'em all on K/9, BB/9, and ERA.

2014 Pat Neshek - 50.1 IP, 9.83 K/9, 1.07 BB/9, 0.72 ERA, 1.7 WAR

1966 Joe Hoerner - 76 IP, 7.46 K/9, 2.49 BB/9, 1.54 ERA, 1.1 WAR
1984 Bruce Sutter - 122.2 IP, 5.65 K/9, 1.69 BB/9, 1.54 ERA, 1.6 WAR
1975 Al Hrabosky - 97.1 IP, 7.58 K/9, 3.05 BB/9, 1.66 ERA, 2.8 WAR
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Posted: 8/14/2014 12:01 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


I'm not sure if any reliever has won the Cy Young Award other than Mike Marshall of the Dodgers.

However, when Marshall won it he pitched in over 100 games, and over 200 innings. With the specialization today where relievers are held to no more than one inning in most of their appearances, it would be tough for one to win the award.
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  • MAP315
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Posted: 8/14/2014 12:28 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 



bicyclemike wrote: I'm not sure if any reliever has won the Cy Young Award other than Mike Marshall of the Dodgers.

However, when Marshall won it he pitched in over 100 games, and over 200 innings. With the specialization today where relievers are held to no more than one inning in most of their appearances, it would be tough for one to win the award.
Willie Hernandez Tigers won both1984 Cy Young and MVP  4.8 WAR

80 games 140 innings

Last edited 8/14/2014 12:31 PM by MAP315

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Posted: 8/14/2014 2:38 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 



MAP315 wrote:
bicyclemike wrote: I'm not sure if any reliever has won the Cy Young Award other than Mike Marshall of the Dodgers.

However, when Marshall won it he pitched in over 100 games, and over 200 innings. With the specialization today where relievers are held to no more than one inning in most of their appearances, it would be tough for one to win the award.
Willie Hernandez Tigers won both1984 Cy Young and MVP  4.8 WAR

80 games 140 innings
Good call!
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Posted: 8/14/2014 3:19 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 



bicyclemike wrote: I'm not sure if any reliever has won the Cy Young Award other than Mike Marshall of the Dodgers.

However, when Marshall won it he pitched in over 100 games, and over 200 innings. With the specialization today where relievers are held to no more than one inning in most of their appearances, it would be tough for one to win the award.


What?

Eckersley? Mark Davis? Bedrosian? Fingers? Sutter? Lyle? Did you miss the 1980's? Haha. biggrin

Last edited 8/14/2014 3:20 PM by PadsFS

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Posted: 8/14/2014 3:19 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


Plenty of relievers have won CYA - Sutter, Marshall, Hernandez, Eckersley, even Steve Bedrosian one year. A few have even won MVP - the aforementioned Hernandez and Eckersley, Rollie Fingers, and also Jim Konstanty from the 1950 Phillies (Konstanty's was, of course, before the establishment of the CYA).

However, these guys were all closers.

We're just now seeing setup men getting picked for the All-Star Game. Not likely one will ever be voted a CYA.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 3:21 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 



Jmodene1 wrote: We're just now seeing setup men getting picked for the All-Star Game. Not likely one will ever be voted a CYA.

Rivera was the closest I think in 1996. Finished 3rd.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 3:53 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 



PadsFS wrote:
bicyclemike wrote: I'm not sure if any reliever has won the Cy Young Award other than Mike Marshall of the Dodgers.

However, when Marshall won it he pitched in over 100 games, and over 200 innings. With the specialization today where relievers are held to no more than one inning in most of their appearances, it would be tough for one to win the award.


What?

Eckersley? Mark Davis? Bedrosian? Fingers? Sutter? Lyle? Did you miss the 1980's? Haha. biggrin
Apparently so! biggrin Marshall is the one that really stands out for me as he was so durable. Did Thigpen win it that year he had 50+ saves or so?
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Posted: 8/14/2014 5:41 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 





---------------------------------------------
--- bicyclemike wrote:


PadsFS wrote:
bicyclemike wrote: I'm not sure if any reliever has won the Cy Young Award other than Mike Marshall of the Dodgers.

However, when Marshall won it he pitched in over 100 games, and over 200 innings. With the specialization today where relievers are held to no more than one inning in most of their appearances, it would be tough for one to win the award.


What?

Eckersley? Mark Davis? Bedrosian? Fingers? Sutter? Lyle? Did you miss the 1980's? Haha. biggrin
Apparently so! biggrin Marshall is the one that really stands out for me as he was so durable. Did Thigpen win it that year he had 50+ saves or so?

---------------------------------------------

Finished 4th that year, behind Welch, Clemens and Stewart. Finished 5th, though, in the MVP voting.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 6:29 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


Seigrest actually had a higher WAR last year than Neshek does this year even though Seigrest pitched less innings.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:46 AM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 



CariocaCardinal wrote: Seigrest actually had a higher WAR last year than Neshek does this year even though Seigrest pitched less innings.
I'd like to see Seigrest finish off 2014 like he pitched in 2013..... Seigrist, Neshek and Rosey could be a great end of game combo if Seigrist can figure it out.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 11:01 AM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 



CardsInChitown wrote:

Seigrist, Neshek and Rosey could be a great end of game combo if Seigrist can figure it out.

ROSEY????

Chitown, where have you been?  Have you not been watching the games this year???

I would like to see Rosenthal sent down to Memphis until the September callups and see if he cant get his act together.  We are skating on thin ice with him - AND I MEAN THIN ICE!!!

Make Neshek the 9th inning guy now, AS IN IMMEDIATELY!!!

Rat
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Posted: 8/15/2014 12:21 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


Rat, your idea has some merit.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 12:30 PM

Re: Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


RatsBuddy wrote: ROSEY????

Chitown, where have you been?  Have you not been watching the games this year???

I would like to see Rosenthal sent down to Memphis until the September callups and see if he cant get his act together.  We are skating on thin ice with him - AND I MEAN THIN ICE!!!

Make Neshek the 9th inning guy now, AS IN IMMEDIATELY!!!

Rat

Serious overreaction. You would get Rondon or Fornataro in return. Hard to see how that would help the team win more games.

Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Posted: 8/15/2014 2:52 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


Sometimes we get a little too hung up with stats. The key is whether a pitcher, particularly a closer can make a good pitch when it is needed. Rosey has had a lot of adventures in leading the league in saves but very often he makes a good pitch or two to make a winner out of a pretty shoddy outing.

I think Neshek would make a good closer. I don't know if he is a free agent after this year but if so do you think the Cardinals will pony up 14 Mil to keep him?
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Posted: 8/15/2014 2:57 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


More realistically, Rosenthal is not going to be replaced as closer until and unless he's either (a) injured or (b) starts blowing saves.  Since neither has happened, he's the man.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 3:01 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 


"We want our closer to feel like he's the king of the world when he walks out on that field. [Friday], I didn't even want someone up in the 'pen. I went out there and I told him, 'You're our guy, you've got to figure out how to get this done... I believe there's a psychological advantage when a guy knows, 'I'm the guy.' That's a great spot to be in."

- Mike Matheny, spoken about Trevor Rosenthal the first week of July
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Posted: 8/15/2014 3:19 PM

Re: Pat Neshek for Cy Young? 



SoonerinNC wrote: Sometimes we get a little too hung up with stats. The key is whether a pitcher, particularly a closer can make a good pitch when it is needed. Rosey has had a lot of adventures in leading the league in saves but very often he makes a good pitch or two to make a winner out of a pretty shoddy outing.

I think Neshek would make a good closer.

1) I don't know if he is a free agent after this year
2) but if so do you think the Cardinals will pony up 14 Mil to keep him?
1) Yes
2) No way
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter
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