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Minor league thread: Thu 8/7

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Posted: 8/7/2014 8:38 AM

Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 


Memphis vs. New Orleans: Tim Cooney

Springfield at Frisco: Kurt Heyer

Palm Beach vs. Charlotte: Tyrell Jenkins

Peoria vs. Wisconsin (2): TBA/Luis Perdomo

State College at Lowell: Dewin Perez

Johnson City vs. Burlington: Dailyn Martinez

GCL Cards at Mets: Dylan Hawkins

DSL Cards at Rojos: Sandy Alcantara

Members, check out Leonda's new feature in our daily Notebooks, "Spotlight On," in which she highlight's the day's starting pitchers.

Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Posted: 8/7/2014 11:36 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 


Jenkins with 7 K's and 1 BB in 6 IP. That sounds more like himself. His K's have been way down this year. Looks like he might be getting back into his old form. Aledmys Diaz hit a homer in the same game.

And goodness what happened to Rowan Wick? .167 avg, 3 BB's, 29 K's in 16 games (60 at bats). His last 5 games he's 0 for 18. Come on Rowan, snap out of it buddy!

Magneuris Sierra went 2 for 4 raising his BA back up to a mediocre .396 :P Are they gonna give this kid a taste of State College or just keep him where he is for the season?

Last edited 8/7/2014 11:36 PM by HighJump31

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Posted: 8/7/2014 11:49 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



HighJump31 wrote: And goodness what happened to Rowan Wick? .167 avg, 3 BB's, 29 K's in 16 games (60 at bats). His last 5 games he's 0 for 18. Come on Rowan, snap out of it buddy!
A more advanced level. Should have been challenged with an assignment to Peoria out of spring training.
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Posted: 8/8/2014 6:57 AM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



DTFlush234 wrote:
HighJump31 wrote: And goodness what happened to Rowan Wick? .167 avg, 3 BB's, 29 K's in 16 games (60 at bats). His last 5 games he's 0 for 18. Come on Rowan, snap out of it buddy!
A more advanced level. Should have been challenged with an assignment to Peoria out of spring training.
Easier to say now, but the org had McElroy and Ronald Castillo back in the Peoria OF and decided Peoples-Walls would get the spot instead. Then there were Vaughn Bryan and Luis Perez waiting, too. All are now with the Chiefs, except Peoples-Walls.

We will never know, but I can't help but wonder had Wick gotten the spot out of camp if he wouldn't have struggled out of the gate like Stone and Peoples-Walls did, and got sent back down.

FWIW, Wick has gotten very good marks at Peoria for his outfield arm.

By the way, I haven't read much about "top 10 prospect" Bryan since the off-season ended. Batting .256 with a .315 OBP and OPS under .700. Striking out one of every four at-bats. Three times as many Ks as walks. Only 53% stolen base success rate and just eight steals. Nothing standing out to me for a top of the order guy. He hasn't even cracked my top 40, the monthly refresh of which I am just finishing up today.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Last edited 8/8/2014 7:11 AM by Domeboys

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Posted: 8/8/2014 8:30 AM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



Domeboys wrote:
 He hasn't even cracked my top 40, the monthly refresh of which I am just finishing up today.
Oscar is a couple PAs short or the cut-off, so is he still a prospect even though he is the Cards starting right fielder?

Last edited 8/8/2014 8:32 AM by blingboy

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Posted: 8/8/2014 12:39 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



Domeboys wrote: By the way, I haven't read much about "top 10 prospect" Bryan since the off-season ended. Batting .256 with a .315 OBP and OPS under .700. Striking out one of every four at-bats. Three times as many Ks as walks. Only 53% stolen base success rate and just eight steals. Nothing standing out to me for a top of the order guy. He hasn't even cracked my top 40, the monthly refresh of which I am just finishing up today.


It was a pretty ridiculous stretch to put Bryan in the top 10.

Tilson, only six months older, is having a much better season and has already reached AA.
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Posted: 8/8/2014 12:43 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



blingboy wrote: Oscar is a couple PAs short or the cut-off, so is he still a prospect even though he is the Cards starting right fielder?
Yes, this is his last month, though.
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/8/2014 1:38 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



Domeboys wrote:
blingboy wrote: Oscar is a couple PAs short or the cut-off, so is he still a prospect even though he is the Cards starting right fielder?
Yes, this is his last month, though.
We hope
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Posted: 8/8/2014 1:38 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



Domeboys wrote:
blingboy wrote: Oscar is a couple PAs short or the cut-off, so is he still a prospect even though he is the Cards starting right fielder?
Yes, this is his last month, though.
Will he qualify for the monthly prospect rankings at the end of the month?
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Posted: 8/8/2014 2:13 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



DTFlush234 wrote:
Domeboys wrote:
blingboy wrote: Oscar is a couple PAs short or the cut-off, so is he still a prospect even though he is the Cards starting right fielder?
Yes, this is his last month, though.
Will he qualify for the monthly prospect rankings at the end of the month?
Sorry if I was unclear. The August rankings are as of August 1. At that time, Taveras still qualified. Unless he gets hurt or sent down in the next day or so, he should pass the cutoff this weekend. Then he will no longer be eligible, ever again.
Brian Walton
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Last edited 8/8/2014 2:15 PM by Domeboys

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Posted: 8/8/2014 11:47 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



Domeboys wrote:
DTFlush234 wrote:
HighJump31 wrote: And goodness what happened to Rowan Wick? .167 avg, 3 BB's, 29 K's in 16 games (60 at bats). His last 5 games he's 0 for 18. Come on Rowan, snap out of it buddy!
A more advanced level. Should have been challenged with an assignment to Peoria out of spring training.
Easier to say now, but the org had McElroy and Ronald Castillo back in the Peoria OF and decided Peoples-Walls would get the spot instead. Then there were Vaughn Bryan and Luis Perez waiting, too. All are now with the Chiefs, except Peoples-Walls.

We will never know, but I can't help but wonder had Wick gotten the spot out of camp if he wouldn't have struggled out of the gate like Stone and Peoples-Walls did, and got sent back down.

FWIW, Wick has gotten very good marks at Peoria for his outfield arm.

By the way, I haven't read much about "top 10 prospect" Bryan since the off-season ended. Batting .256 with a .315 OBP and OPS under .700. Striking out one of every four at-bats. Three times as many Ks as walks. Only 53% stolen base success rate and just eight steals. Nothing standing out to me for a top of the order guy. He hasn't even cracked my top 40, the monthly refresh of which I am just finishing up today.
I've been impressed by Bryans talent and he has some pretty good games when I see him.  Obviously overall he production he has a ways to go.  Remember Bryan like McElroy is a switch hitter and also like McElroy is just learning to hit left handed.  Bryan has a better swing, is very fast, hits some very hard gapers and is probably a better CF than McElroy.  Talented prospects that are still learning the game don't always immediately produce when they play at a level this level.

We can see how worthless stats are at Low A at times when you look at pitchers who succed there but get knocked around as they get to higher levels due to stuff.  They were advanced for their age, just like sometimes very talented athletes don't do too well in Low A but improve as they move up.
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Posted: 8/8/2014 11:52 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 


I think your also missing that he has 9 triples. 11 doubles, 9 triples and 1 HR.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:38 AM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



scadder21 wrote: I think your also missing that he has 9 triples. 11 doubles, 9 triples and 1 HR.
No I did not miss that. Bryan's OPS is .691, for Pete's sake.

Every system has guys who seem to come from nowhere who show potential in rookie ball, but until they demonstrate production at higher levels of play, they have no business being ranked in the top 10 of any system, unless it is one that is devoid of talent.

Let's get specific. Do you see Bryan as a better outfield prospect than Piscotty, Grichuk, Ramsey or Tilson? If not, then my point is made.

How about a better OF prospect than Pham, McElroy, Sierra or Ronald Castillo? Until that is the case, Bryan has no place in the top 40 discussion yet, either.
Brian Walton
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Last edited 8/9/2014 9:41 AM by Domeboys

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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:10 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 


I'm not even saying he should be Top 40 but i was responding to your seeming dismissal of his all together.

Also I disagree about coming out of nowhere to show potential. Potential is already evident, it's not like he suddenly started to run well or field well. So more specific. Regarding the Top 4. I think everyone but Tilson is better prospect than Bryan at this point. But the way I see it players higher up the chain more likely to contribue even if as a utility guy will be higher on a prospect list. From what I've seen Bryan has more talent and is better than Tilson.

Second list. I think Pham is a better player but as a Cardinal prospect I think Bryan should be higher because it more likely than not Pham doesn't smell the Big Leagues for us. I wish he would but I just don't see it happening with Matheny's love affair with Swing otu of your shoes Robinson. Bryan is better than McElroy in my opinion and it's not even close. Not really fair to McElroy because he's been hitting left handed in games for the first time in his life in Class A baseball. It's hurt his progess as a player I believe. Bryan has to be a better prospect than Sierra simpley because we have NO clue what type of player Sierra is. He's produced but we simply don't know anything about him. For example I think a guy from the DSL Franco hit like .330. No one mentioned him at all just because we know so little and they are so far away. Castillo is probably a better prospect than Bryan at this point. Off and on production but has shown the talent and production at times the warrant being ahead of Bryan.

So essentially, If a hitter is higher up and performing he's more likely to be a higher prospect even if he has less talent because of the way that we all do prospect lists. The reason why Bryan was on Jason Parks Top 10 prospect list is because Park makes lists based on player talent not likeliness of contributing anything at all at some point.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:52 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 


I did not dismiss Bryan, but clearly see him in a different light than you and Mr. Parks. From my view, there ain't no way to spin him into being a top 10 player before the season and nothing of significance has happened since.
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/9/2014 2:20 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 


I'm absolutely not calling him a Top 10 guy at all. Parks goes based on upside. I think he shouldn't be dismissed and can recognize that just someone can still be a prospect despite not tearing it up in his first season of Full Season ball.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 2:31 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 


As a comparison to Charlie Tilson

Tilson in 100 games at Peoria, hit 8 doubles, 6 triples and 4 Home Runs. .303 average with OBP of .349 and slugging of .388 and OPS of .737

Bryan is only 68 games already has 11 doubles, 9 triples but only 1 HR. He's hitting 50 points less but his OBP is only 35 points less and slugging of only 11 less.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 2:49 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



scadder21 wrote: I'm absolutely not calling him a Top 10 guy at all. Parks goes based on upside. I think he shouldn't be dismissed and can recognize that just someone can still be a prospect despite not tearing it up in his first season of Full Season ball.
Please do not misrepresent me. I never said that Bryan is not a prospect. We disagree on where he ranks.

Regarding your Parks defense, looking at only one variable, potential upside, is an incomplete way at best to view a prospect and at worst, misleading. Supposed high upside is far less relevant if the player has a low probability of ever achieving it.

BaseballHQ is one rater that scores a prospect in both. Over the years, I have never seen a player in their top 15 for an organization that did not at least have a 50% or greater chance of becoming a major league regular or better. (Needless to say, Bryan did not appear among their 15 Cards ranked plus nine others to watch for 2014.)

My bottom line remains the same - whether upside, downside, left-side or right-side - I do not see Bryan as a top 10 prospect at this time.

Let's table this until we see how the other raters of prospects weigh in on Bryan this winter. Maybe BP was just ahead of the curve. Maybe not.
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/9/2014 2:59 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 


That works I never thought he was Top 10 yet. I took your comment as flippant like "hey what happened to that guy that was supposed to be so great, not having the best year huh". If that wasn't the intended point of the comment then I misinterpreted.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 3:13 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Thu 8/7 



scadder21 wrote: That works I never thought he was Top 10 yet. I took your comment as flippant like "hey what happened to that guy that was supposed to be so great, not having the best year huh". If that wasn't the intended point of the comment then I misinterpreted.
That is a fair representation. My issue is not with Bryan, but with the unrealistic ranking of him.
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