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Cole Hamels Trade Thread

Posted: 7/29/2014 12:35 PM

Cole Hamels Trade Thread 


Lot of twitter activity regarding Cole Hamels and the Cardinals:

Dan Picca ‏@DanPicca 5m
*Hearing @Cardinals offered CMart, Piscotty & Marco to Phils for Cole Hamels. Steep price but southpaw aces in prime rare @birdsonthebat13

 

 

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Posted: 7/29/2014 12:38 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 


The fourstick chap over at Viva has a post:

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/20...ors-cole-hamels

 

 and suggests You certainly wouldn't give up 4 or 5 top prospects for that pitcher and if that's the asking price, the Cardinals should walk away. However, if you could snag Hamels for, say, Marco Gonzales, Alex Reyes, and Stephen Piscotty

which is a pretty ridiculous proposal imo.

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Posted: 7/29/2014 1:52 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 


I'm not interested in this deal given Hamels' contract.

It's hard to justify any deal for a pitcher with a contract like that. Too much risk. Obviously the Phillies are not going to trade him without having to absorb much of the financial obligation.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 1:54 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



bicyclemike wrote: I'm not interested in this deal given Hamels' contract.

It's hard to justify any deal for a pitcher with a contract like that. Too much risk. Obviously the Phillies are not going to trade him without having to absorb much of the financial obligation.
Depends on how much they demand really..
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Posted: 7/29/2014 2:32 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



bicyclemike wrote: I'm not interested in this deal given Hamels' contract.

It's hard to justify any deal for a pitcher with a contract like that. Too much risk. Obviously the Phillies are not going to trade him without having to absorb much of the financial obligation.

I don't see how it's any different than Wainwright's contract:

Cole Hamels lhp
6 years/$144M (2013-18), plus 2019 option

  • 6 years/$144M (2013-18), plus 2019 club option
    • signed extension with Philadelphia 7/25/12
    • $6M signing bonus
    • 13:$19.5M, 14:$22.5M, 15:$22.5M, 16:$22.5M, 17:$22.5M, 18:$22.5M, 19:$20M club option ($6M buyout)
    • 2019 option guaranteed at $24M if Hamels 1) has 400 IP in 2017-18, including 200 IP in 2018, and 2) is not on the disabled list with a shoulder or elbow injury at the end of the 2018 season
    • limited no-trade protection (may block trades to 20 clubs each season) (for 2014, may block deals to all clubs except Atlanta, Boston, LA Angels, LA Dodgers, NY Yankees, San Diego, St. Louis, Texas and Washington)
    • at signing, the second-largest contract ever for a pitcher

http://www.baseballprospectus....lphia-phillies/


Wainwright is on a 5yr/$100M deal starting at age 32, ending at age 36.

Starting next year, Hamels is due a 5yr/$110M deal starting at age 31, ending at age 35.

Prospect-wise, it sucks....but Hamels and Wainwright type players are getting $150-200M on the open market.

Plus Hamels makes CMart and Gonzales irrelevant. Piscotty is already blocked.

Pitching depth-wise, we would still have Weaver, Cooney, Kaminsky, and Reyes, plus Shelby Miller or Joe Kelly (Wainwright, Hamels, Wacha, Lynn, Kelly/Miller)

Makes a lot of sense for both squads, especially since it's not my money.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 2:43 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 


Why not put in Miller instead of Martinez and maybe add one more guy or that competitive balance pick.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 3:32 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



scadder21 wrote: Why not put in Miller instead of Martinez and maybe add one more guy or that competitive balance pick.
That would be great to keep Martinez instead of Miller, but I cant see Mo getting Hamels without Oscar or Martinez in a deal..
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Posted: 7/29/2014 3:35 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



bicyclemike wrote: I'm not interested in this deal given Hamels' contract.

It's hard to justify any deal for a pitcher with a contract like that. Too much risk. Obviously the Phillies are not going to trade him without having to absorb much of the financial obligation.
Price is gonna get more in years and dollars.  Price would definitely cost Oscar to headline any deal with Rays.  

Hamels is a decent trade target both for this season and seasons to come..
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Posted: 7/29/2014 4:41 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 


Sounds like a deal that might help put St. Louis in contention for the next three or four years at least. Sorry guys but I'd rather keep Miller than CM.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 4:56 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 


I agree Agee.  Why anyone would rather keep Martinez over Miller is beyond me.  Martinez is very raw, and Miller has already won 15 games at the big league level.

As far as I am concerned fire away with that trade in the initial post!

Rat

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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:13 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



RatsBuddy wrote:

I agree Agee.  Why anyone would rather keep Martinez over Miller is beyond me.  Martinez is very raw, and Miller has already won 15 games at the big league level.

As far as I am concerned fire away with that trade in the initial post!

Rat

Miller simply isn't developing very well.  He has 1 pitch and won those 15 last year based on that.  Since Mid Season last year he hasn't been very good.  Martinez has the pitches already just needs to develop his command.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 8:17 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



scadder21 wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote:

I agree Agee.  Why anyone would rather keep Martinez over Miller is beyond me.  Martinez is very raw, and Miller has already won 15 games at the big league level.

As far as I am concerned fire away with that trade in the initial post!

Rat

Miller simply isn't developing very well.  He has 1 pitch and won those 15 last year based on that.  Since Mid Season last year he hasn't been very good.  Martinez has the pitches already just needs to develop his command.




And Martinez is developing, give me a break. Martinez is in his second season with the club and if he is developing, please give examples because to the untrained eye, it looks as if he is regressing. 
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Posted: 7/29/2014 8:19 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



ageelaw wrote:
scadder21 wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote:

I agree Agee.  Why anyone would rather keep Martinez over Miller is beyond me.  Martinez is very raw, and Miller has already won 15 games at the big league level.

As far as I am concerned fire away with that trade in the initial post!

Rat

Miller simply isn't developing very well.  He has 1 pitch and won those 15 last year based on that.  Since Mid Season last year he hasn't been very good.  Martinez has the pitches already just needs to develop his command.




And Martinez is developing, give me a break. Martinez is in his second season with the club and if he is developing, please give examples because to the untrained eye, it looks as if he is regressing. 
No-you're wrong.  Martinez is slowly learning an could be a good pitcher.  Miller has hit his ceiling and its not very high.  He's pedestrian at best-get rid of him.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 8:32 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 


Here are the deals that will win us the division. We send Marco, Martinez and Piscotty to the Phils for Hamels and Ryan Howard.

We then send Howard, along with Oscar and Miller to Tampa for Price. 

Hate to lose Oscar and Martinez, not to mention the potential from Piscotty and Marco, but this would give us an incredible rotation. Phils and Rays both dump a bunch of salary and get some good prospects in return. 

We surely get to the playoffs this year and next barring disasterous injuries, but have tough decisions in the future regarding payroll.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 8:47 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 


Agelaw- Martinez started out as the 8th inning guy, thus he was a 2 pitch pitcher in the bullpen. Just recently he's got to start where he can start using his other 2 pitches again. He's not efficent at all but he's not regressing. It's hard to expect someone to be an 8th inning guy for half a year and then expect that a move to the rotation will go great.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 8:48 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



bicyclemike wrote: Here are the deals that will win us the division. We send Marco, Martinez and Piscotty to the Phils for Hamels and Ryan Howard.

We then send Howard, along with Oscar and Miller to Tampa for Price. 

Hate to lose Oscar and Martinez, not to mention the potential from Piscotty and Marco, but this would give us an incredible rotation. Phils and Rays both dump a bunch of salary and get some good prospects in return. 

We surely get to the playoffs this year and next barring disasterous injuries, but have tough decisions in the future regarding payroll.
Howard's offensive production fell off a cliff right after the Phillies gave him 125M.  I wonder why.  Still injured? Stopped taking ....? Lack of motivation?
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Posted: 7/29/2014 8:58 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



mudville wrote:
bicyclemike wrote: Here are the deals that will win us the division. We send Marco, Martinez and Piscotty to the Phils for Hamels and Ryan Howard.

We then send Howard, along with Oscar and Miller to Tampa for Price. 

Hate to lose Oscar and Martinez, not to mention the potential from Piscotty and Marco, but this would give us an incredible rotation. Phils and Rays both dump a bunch of salary and get some good prospects in return. 

We surely get to the playoffs this year and next barring disasterous injuries, but have tough decisions in the future regarding payroll.
Howard's offensive production fell off a cliff right after the Phillies gave him 125M.  I wonder why.  Still injured? Stopped taking ....? Lack of motivation?
Maybe a combination. I think the Achilles issue probably is most to blame. Very few players come back from that anywhere near where they were. It basically ended Bill White's career. Bobby Tolan was a shadow of his former self after his Achilles injury.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:13 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



bicyclemike wrote: Here are the deals that will win us the division. We send Marco, Martinez and Piscotty to the Phils for Hamels and Ryan Howard.

We then send Howard, along with Oscar and Miller to Tampa for Price. 

Hate to lose Oscar and Martinez, not to mention the potential from Piscotty and Marco, but this would give us an incredible rotation. Phils and Rays both dump a bunch of salary and get some good prospects in return. 

We surely get to the playoffs this year and next barring disasterous injuries, but have tough decisions in the future regarding payroll.
Are you saying that the Phils eat most of Howard's contract?  If not, why would the Cardinals or Rays take on his salary?  He is owed $50.0 million over the next 2 years with a $10.0 million buyout (or $23.0 million salary) for the 2017 season.  Also, Howard has a limited no-trade being able to block trades to 21 teams.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:30 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 





---------------------------------------------
--- nathanleopoldjr wrote:


ageelaw wrote:
scadder21 wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote: I agree Agee.  Why anyone would rather keep Martinez over Miller is beyond me.  Martinez is very raw, and Miller has already won 15 games at the big league level.



As far as I am concerned fire away with that trade in the initial post!

Rat

Miller simply isn't developing very well.  He has 1 pitch and won those 15 last year based on that.  Since Mid Season last year he hasn't been very good.  Martinez has the pitches already just needs to develop his command.




And Martinez is developing, give me a break. Martinez is in his second season with the club and if he is developing, please give examples because to the untrained eye, it looks as if he is regressing. 
No-you're wrong.  Martinez is slowly learning an could be a good pitcher.  Miller has hit his ceiling and its not very high.  He's pedestrian at best-get rid of him.

---------------------------------------------
Nathan talk about a clueless post. Say that Miller is pedestrian at best just goes to show you like to post the silly crap over and over.

Last edited 7/29/2014 9:31 PM by TCRedbird

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Posted: 7/29/2014 10:27 PM

Re: Cole Hamels Trade Thread 



bicyclemike wrote:
mudville wrote:
bicyclemike wrote: Here are the deals that will win us the division. We send Marco, Martinez and Piscotty to the Phils for Hamels and Ryan Howard.

We then send Howard, along with Oscar and Miller to Tampa for Price. 

Hate to lose Oscar and Martinez, not to mention the potential from Piscotty and Marco, but this would give us an incredible rotation. Phils and Rays both dump a bunch of salary and get some good prospects in return. 

We surely get to the playoffs this year and next barring disasterous injuries, but have tough decisions in the future regarding payroll.
Howard's offensive production fell off a cliff right after the Phillies gave him 125M.  I wonder why.  Still injured? Stopped taking ....? Lack of motivation?
Maybe a combination. I think the Achilles issue probably is most to blame. Very few players come back from that anywhere near where they were. It basically ended Bill White's career. Bobby Tolan was a shadow of his former self after his Achilles injury.
Hard to hit without legs under you similar to Pujols issues last year and Craig's this year. A lower half is the foundation to your swing and clearly Howard has no lower half to generate power or even gap shots. If he doesn't return to his offensive level at the peak in a years time than he'll never been the same again.
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