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2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2

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Posted: 6/29/2014 7:35 AM

2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 


Adam Wainwright (10-4, 2.01) vs. Ryan Vogelsong (5-4, 3.96). 9:15 PM CT. FOX Sports Midwest and KMOX.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter
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Posted: 7/2/2014 12:24 AM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 


Almost willing to bet we go back to the standard line up tomorrow. Holliday in LF, Craig in RF, everyone at there normal position.

With DD at 2nd obviously.

Last edited 7/2/2014 12:24 AM by scadder21

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Posted: 7/2/2014 10:46 AM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



scadder21 wrote:

Almost willing to bet we go back to the standard line up tomorrow. Holliday in LF, Craig in RF, everyone at there normal position.

With DD at 2nd obviously.



Wainwright will take care of business tonight. I'd like to see Bourjos get the nod though.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:12 AM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 


Well he will need to drive in his own run because this offense is simply not doing anything at all.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:25 AM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



PadsFS wrote:
scadder21 wrote:

Almost willing to bet we go back to the standard line up tomorrow. Holliday in LF, Craig in RF, everyone at there normal position.

With DD at 2nd obviously.



Wainwright will take care of business tonight. I'd like to see Bourjos get the nod though.
Yeah he will but MM will prob leave him in 1 inning to long after he struggled a little the inning before and the Cards will lose 1-0 again :)
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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:32 AM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 


Beckett, Ryu, Grienke, Kershaw, Lincecum.....

5 Cy Young awards, 2 2nd place Cy Young finishes. ERA's of 2.37, 3.12, 2.78, 2.04, and 4.06. 3 no-hitters among them this year alone.

Let's be real here.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:36 AM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



TCRedbird wrote: Yeah he will but MM will prob leave him in 1 inning to long after he struggled a little the inning before and the Cards will lose 1-0 again :)

In the bottom of the 7th in the game on June 26th, Wainwright retired the side of Gonzalez, Kemp, and Either in a row.

In the 8th, Uribe got a hit, then they bunted him to 2nd. Then, they got two ground ball singles to score Uribe. Hardly any blame can be on Matheny for that one OR on Wainwright.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:39 AM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



PadsFS wrote: Beckett, Ryu, Grienke, Kershaw, Lincecum.....

5 Cy Young awards, 2 2nd place Cy Young finishes. ERA's of 2.37, 3.12, 2.78, 2.04, and 4.06. 3 no-hitters among them this year alone.

Let's be real here.
Yes lets, it doesn't matter if they are facing a bunch of crappy pitches either you are still looking at the same results....a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad offensive team...
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Posted: 7/2/2014 12:03 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



PadsFS wrote: Beckett, Ryu, Grienke, Kershaw, Lincecum.....

5 Cy Young awards, 2 2nd place Cy Young finishes. ERA's of 2.37, 3.12, 2.78, 2.04, and 4.06. 3 no-hitters among them this year alone.

Let's be real here.
OK. let's be real. Here are other pitchers victorious over this lineup this year. No Cy Young awards, no second place finishes in Cy Young voting.
J.J. Hoover, Tony Watson, Justin Grimm, Jenrry Mejia, Stolmy Pimental, Danny Duffy (shutout), Yordano Ventura, Marcus Stroman, Juan Oviedo, David Buchanan. I didn't bother listing the major league veteran pitchers they have struggled against this season, such as Colon and others.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 12:25 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



ageelaw wrote:
PadsFS wrote: Beckett, Ryu, Grienke, Kershaw, Lincecum.....

5 Cy Young awards, 2 2nd place Cy Young finishes. ERA's of 2.37, 3.12, 2.78, 2.04, and 4.06. 3 no-hitters among them this year alone.

Let's be real here.
OK. let's be real. Here are other pitchers victorious over this lineup this year. No Cy Young awards, no second place finishes in Cy Young voting.
J.J. Hoover, Tony Watson, Justin Grimm, Jenrry Mejia, Stolmy Pimental, Danny Duffy (shutout), Yordano Ventura, Marcus Stroman, Juan Oviedo, David Buchanan. I didn't bother listing the major league veteran pitchers they have struggled against this season, such as Colon and others.


So? Even Kip Wells wins a game every now and then. The last five in particular are more relevant to the discussion than the one's you mentioned.

I get that you love to bitch and moan and complain about every little effing poor thing they do over and over and over again. I get it. I really do. But the fact is those five pitchers are the last five we faced and they were all really, really good.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 12:50 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



ageelaw wrote: OK. let's be real. Here are other pitchers victorious over this lineup this year. No Cy Young awards, no second place finishes in Cy Young voting.
J.J. Hoover, Tony Watson, Justin Grimm, Jenrry Mejia, Stolmy Pimental, Danny Duffy (shutout), Yordano Ventura, Marcus Stroman, Juan Oviedo, David Buchanan. I didn't bother listing the major league veteran pitchers they have struggled against this season, such as Colon and others.

The 1967 Cards lost games to this who's who of pitchers: Bolin, Fisher, Giusti, Boozer.....

Too far back? The 2004 Cards lost to Ricky Stone, Wade Miller, Chris Saenz, Tomo Ohka, Ryan Drese, Geovanni Carraca, Kris Benson, Jose Lima, etc....

And for the record, Stroman, Duffy, and Ventura are all former highly-rated prospects that are coming into their own this year. Hardly Chris Saenz by any means:

http://www.i70baseball.com/201...unknown-rookie/

Total of ONE major league game, one win.

 
Or maybe it’s a rookie from Double-A taming a lineup led by the vaunted “MV3” of Pujols, Edmonds and Rolen, and then never being heard from again. We know that the Cardinals reached greatness in 2004. But on this night, April 24, 2004, it was an unknown rookie who did. And baseball was the better for it.

Last edited 7/2/2014 12:55 PM by PadsFS

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Posted: 7/2/2014 1:00 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 


Since we left Coors field we've scored 0-3-1-0-0. Man, that's struggling! 

There is a guy in our office who is from St. Louis and we passed each other in the hall yesterday, and all he said  "It's tough being a Cardinal fan right now".  I think that says it all.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 1:45 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



PadsFS wrote:
ageelaw wrote:
PadsFS wrote: Beckett, Ryu, Grienke, Kershaw, Lincecum.....

5 Cy Young awards, 2 2nd place Cy Young finishes. ERA's of 2.37, 3.12, 2.78, 2.04, and 4.06. 3 no-hitters among them this year alone.

Let's be real here.
OK. let's be real. Here are other pitchers victorious over this lineup this year. No Cy Young awards, no second place finishes in Cy Young voting.
J.J. Hoover, Tony Watson, Justin Grimm, Jenrry Mejia, Stolmy Pimental, Danny Duffy (shutout), Yordano Ventura, Marcus Stroman, Juan Oviedo, David Buchanan. I didn't bother listing the major league veteran pitchers they have struggled against this season, such as Colon and others.


So? Even Kip Wells wins a game every now and then. The last five in particular are more relevant to the discussion than the one's you mentioned.

I get that you love to bitch and moan and complain about every little effing poor thing they do over and over and over again. I get it. I really do. But the fact is those five pitchers are the last five we faced and they were all really, really good.
So you're saying we can''t beat any good pitchers so we should expect to lose every time we face a quality pitcher.  Becket, Kershaw, Greinke, et al aren't undefeated.  Someone beat them along the way.  If the Cardinals can't fgure out a way to beat good pitchers then what chance do they have.  The Brewers, Reds, Pirates and even the Cubs have some good pitchers.  If we lose to every one of them then things will not go well.  They needed a MAJOR offensive upgrade during the off season and they did nothing.  We see the results every day.  Now tonight they are facing a pitcher that I would say is a tier below the last five.  5-4 with an era near 4.  This will be a good test for the offense that can't hit great pitchers.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 3:21 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



nathanleopoldjr wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
ageelaw wrote:
PadsFS wrote: Beckett, Ryu, Grienke, Kershaw, Lincecum.....

5 Cy Young awards, 2 2nd place Cy Young finishes. ERA's of 2.37, 3.12, 2.78, 2.04, and 4.06. 3 no-hitters among them this year alone.

Let's be real here.
OK. let's be real. Here are other pitchers victorious over this lineup this year. No Cy Young awards, no second place finishes in Cy Young voting.
J.J. Hoover, Tony Watson, Justin Grimm, Jenrry Mejia, Stolmy Pimental, Danny Duffy (shutout), Yordano Ventura, Marcus Stroman, Juan Oviedo, David Buchanan. I didn't bother listing the major league veteran pitchers they have struggled against this season, such as Colon and others.


So? Even Kip Wells wins a game every now and then. The last five in particular are more relevant to the discussion than the one's you mentioned.

I get that you love to bitch and moan and complain about every little effing poor thing they do over and over and over again. I get it. I really do. But the fact is those five pitchers are the last five we faced and they were all really, really good.
So you're saying we can''t beat any good pitchers so we should expect to lose every time we face a quality pitcher.  Becket, Kershaw, Greinke, et al aren't undefeated.  Someone beat them along the way.  If the Cardinals can't fgure out a way to beat good pitchers then what chance do they have.  The Brewers, Reds, Pirates and even the Cubs have some good pitchers.  If we lose to every one of them then things will not go well.  They needed a MAJOR offensive upgrade during the off season and they did nothing.  We see the results every day.  Now tonight they are facing a pitcher that I would say is a tier below the last five.  5-4 with an era near 4.  This will be a good test for the offense that can't hit great pitchers.
He didn't like the list of obscure pitchers so he had to lash out. I could care less, I have defended players on this board just as often as I have been critical. So folks just prefer to make statements that remain unchallenged.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 6:34 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 


OT starts in CF

1. Matt Carpenter (L) 3B
2. Matt Holliday (R) LF
3. Matt Adams (L) 1B
4. Allen Craig (R) RF
5. Yadier Molina (R) C
6. Jhonny Peralta (R) SS
7. Oscar Taveras (L) CF
8. Mark Ellis (R) 2B
9. Adam Wainwright (R) P
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Posted: 7/2/2014 7:12 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 


Somebody said once Oscar Madison Taveras wouldn't play CF???

Anyway, the Blue Jays and Padres both do us another favor.  Toronto wins over Milwaukee and San Diego shuts out the Reds 3-0.  Odd that Cincinnati cant win in San Diego.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 7:50 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



RatsBuddy wrote: Somebody said once Oscar Madison Taveras wouldn't play CF???

Anyway, the Blue Jays and Padres both do us another favor.  Toronto wins over Milwaukee and San Diego shuts out the Reds 3-0.  Odd that Cincinnati cant win in San Diego.
Not that he wouldn't....just that he shouldn't. That is one bad defensive outfield tonight.  Maybe he is better defensively than Jay there...he has to be Jay is painfully bad there.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 8:06 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 


Given the team's problems right now, whatever D we are giving up with OT in center is the least of the problems.  Totally insignificant compared to everything else.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 8:13 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



blingboy wrote: Given the team's problems right now, whatever D we are giving up with OT in center is the least of the problems.  Totally insignificant compared to everything else.
Wrong....defense is critical. We have Holliday and Craig....we need a CF than can cover a lot of ground. The last thing the team needs is be equally bad at defense that at offense and is not like Taveras is hitting that great. Keep him where is more comfortable so he can relax. He needs to play every day but not in CF. This is not a good idea. I know I am in the minority I value defense as much as offense.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 8:20 PM

Re: 2014 MLB game #86: Cards at Giants: Wed 7/2 



MAP315 wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote: Somebody said once Oscar Madison Taveras wouldn't play CF???

Anyway, the Blue Jays and Padres both do us another favor.  Toronto wins over Milwaukee and San Diego shuts out the Reds 3-0.  Odd that Cincinnati cant win in San Diego.
Not that he wouldn't....just that he shouldn't. That is one bad defensive outfield tonight.  Maybe he is better defensively than Jay there...he has to be Jay is painfully bad there.
Jay has not been that bad at all in the CF this year
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