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Lineup?

Posted: 6/7/2014 10:42 AM

Lineup? 


I was looking over the Cardinals statistics earlier and seeing all the missed opportunities and struggles. The Cardinals clearly are having issues scoring runs and looking over the stats I see a few glaring results.

1. Matt Carpenter appears to have turned around his slow start. He's getting on base, he's hitting for average and his slugging percentage is starting to tip upward with a few more doubles.

2. Holliday is not the answer for the No. 3 spot. If Matheny really wants to shake up the lineup, he may consider moving Holliday, who has a decent on-base percentage, but he's not hitting for power or average, which is an issue for a guy hitting in a run production spot.

3. Something has to be done with the No. 2 spot in the lineup. Wong and Jay have been the primary hitters there. It might be time to try something else out. Those two are hitting more like guys at the bottom of the order.

I think it would be interesting to see Matheny maybe jumble some guys up in the lineup. I might even been inclined to say try Molina or Craig in the 3 spot and push Holiday either down to the 5 or 6 spot, or maybe even give him a chance to hit second. Carpenter is getting on base quite a bit. He might get more fastballs, especially earlier in the count, which he likes to jump on get-me-over pitches. It might be worth the consideration to also move Peralta up the lineup card.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 12:46 PM

Re: Lineup? 


I wholeheartedly agree that Holliday is NOT "the guy".
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Posted: 6/8/2014 8:21 AM

Re: Lineup? 


Seems we have this discussion on Holliday every year, since he's always a slow starter.  And by the end of the year he's got his .300 BA and his 100 RBI, or close enough to where it doesn't matter.

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Posted: 6/9/2014 11:50 AM

Re: Lineup? 


In a way, you'd like to see Carpenter batting third.  He doesn't hit homers, but then we've found out that Matt Adams doesn't either and he's batted clean-up many times.  Problem is, who would be your lead-off man?  eek
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Posted: 6/9/2014 12:45 PM

Re: Lineup? 



SD70Mac wrote: I wholeheartedly agree that Holliday is NOT "the guy".
Then the Cards don't have anybody who is "the guy" for the 3 spot.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 4:10 PM

Re: Lineup? 


In 1985 Whitey Herzog had Tommy Herr hit third, and he had a career year with I believe 110 RBI. But then he had what you might call world-class speed hitting in front of him, and those guys were on second base as much as they were on first.

A lineup that might be worth a shot with our club is Wong, Peralta, Carpenter, Holliday, Taveras, Craig, Molina, Bourjos(Jay).

If Adams plays you substitute him in for Taveras. Now you'd need to be patient with Wong as he gains experience. But the thing I like about this lineup is you flip L-R through the sixth spot. And you have Molina at 7th, where you still have a potentially productive bat but you're not as likely to clog up the bases.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 8:46 PM

Re: Lineup? 


All of our hitters are suited for the seven or eight spot....
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Posted: 6/9/2014 11:28 PM

Re: Lineup? 



TCRedbird wrote:
SD70Mac wrote: I wholeheartedly agree that Holliday is NOT "the guy".
Then the Cards don't have anybody who is "the guy" for the 3 spot.
It's an easy fix.

Carpenter
Wong
Stanton
Craig
Holliday
Molina
Peralta
Grichuk

We just won the division and are ready for the World Series. 

Glad I could help...you're welcome.
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Posted: 6/10/2014 1:19 AM

Re: Lineup? 



kudzu99 wrote: All of our hitters are suited for the seven or eight spot....
This just stupid. Probably out of frustration so i get it though. Ummm great post Kyle. I too am in the "Holli is not the guy for the #3 spot" but i have been saying that for two and a half years now. Matt usually heats up when the weather does and when he does then he is good in the 3 spot. Not great but good enough. His second half surges are GOING to end someday folks and maybe very soon. I see that back injury i have imagined in my mind is flaring up again. It seems to happen a little earlier every year now too. This has been my biggest concern about him for 3 years now. I wish they had a SS that could lead off, get on base and run the bases like a demon. Then they could move Carpenter to the 2 hole. Right now i think i would move Holli down or up. He might catch fire in the #2 spot. Maybe put Craig in the 3, he has actually been a much better hitter than Holliday for the last 6 weeks or so. Let Matt heat up and then revisit the issue. The fact is Holli has 3 Hr's in 231 Ab's and is slugging .368. That means that the only starter he is slugging higher than is Wong. For reference Bourjos is slugging . 354. Holliday is below Jay even. He should be removed from that #3 spot immediately until he improves like he will for sure. Maybe moving him down will spark him. Craig has been better with men in scoring position than Matt for two and a half years now. When is his turn? When does this ridiculous man crush for Matt Holliday end?

GO CARDS!
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Posted: 6/10/2014 10:58 AM

Re: Lineup? 



nathanleopoldjr wrote:
TCRedbird wrote:
SD70Mac wrote: I wholeheartedly agree that Holliday is NOT "the guy".
Then the Cards don't have anybody who is "the guy" for the 3 spot.
It's an easy fix.

Carpenter
Wong
Stanton
Craig
Holliday
Molina
Peralta
Grichuk

We just won the division and are ready for the World Series. 

Glad I could help...you're welcome.
One thing I do not like about the Stanton trade thoughts is that you would be buying high. I'm not sure getting a big stick at the expense of maybe two starters is worth it. You take a step forward and another back. 

Sometimes that's okay, but most of the time you want to buy low. I think the guy the Cards should ask about is Matt Kemp. His value is down, so you have some leverage to make a deal that could potentially pay big rewards. And the guy plays center field. I think that is a much better fit for us, if you can get him at a reasonable cost.

Another "buy low" guy we might pursue is Carl Crawford, but he's on the DL with an ankle injury. I would think we could get him real cheap, and he could just pay nice dividends. One question with him though is can he still play center field.
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  • MAP315
  • St. Louis Cardinal
  • 3885 posts this site

Posted: 6/10/2014 11:23 AM

Re: Lineup? 



nathanleopoldjr wrote:
TCRedbird wrote:
SD70Mac wrote: I wholeheartedly agree that Holliday is NOT "the guy".
Then the Cards don't have anybody who is "the guy" for the 3 spot.
It's an easy fix.

Carpenter
Wong
Stanton
Craig
Holliday
Molina
Peralta
Grichuk

We just won the division and are ready for the World Series. 

Glad I could help...you're welcome.
Grichuk???  I thought you liked outfielders that can hit.  Grichuk based on your "metrics" to judge our young outfielders should be a great target to be discarded as a "can't hit" bum by you. Bourjos has hit better than him so far and we all know how you feel about him.

Last edited 6/10/2014 11:26 AM by MAP315

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Posted: 6/10/2014 12:05 PM

Re: Lineup? 



bicyclemike wrote: In 1985 Whitey Herzog had Tommy Herr hit third, and he had a career year with I believe 110 RBI. But then he had what you might call world-class speed hitting in front of him, and those guys were on second base as much as they were on first.

A lineup that might be worth a shot with our club is Wong, Peralta, Carpenter, Holliday, Taveras, Craig, Molina, Bourjos(Jay).

If Adams plays you substitute him in for Taveras. Now you'd need to be patient with Wong as he gains experience. But the thing I like about this lineup is you flip L-R through the sixth spot. And you have Molina at 7th, where you still have a potentially productive bat but you're not as likely to clog up the bases.
I like that idea. Carpenter in the three hole. He is a great bat handler and contact man. The club could use more hit and runs and Carpenter would be better at situational hitting, moving runners, etc. I would much rather have Holliday hitting fourth than DP Craig.
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Posted: 6/10/2014 1:48 PM

Re: Lineup? 


To this point in 2014, the big problem is that we don't have 4 Matt Carpenters to slot 1-4 in the batting order. Now that June is upon us, we all are waiting for our first real Matt Holliday sighting. But what if for the first time in his career he stays in hibernation? Stranger things have certainly happened. Oscar might have to grow up real quick!
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Posted: 6/10/2014 1:54 PM

Re: Lineup? 



ageelaw wrote: I would much rather have Holliday hitting fourth than DP Craig.

Beyond this being a ridiculous reason to  bat someone either #3 or #4, Holliday hit into 31 DPs last year, while Craig hit into just 12. This year, Craig is at 9 and Holliday is at 6.

2012: Holliday 16, Craig 15.
2011: Pujols 29, Holliday 21. (Pujols hit 3rd that year)
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Posted: 6/10/2014 4:19 PM

Re: Lineup? 



You lose the threat of getting someone on with less than 2 outs to start the game at least once or twice. Sure whoever you slot in there will get on but not as much as Carpenter.

If we seriously consider this then my suggestion is against righties we have Jon Jay leadoff. Against lefties id move Carpenter back to leadoff and hit Peralta 2nd and Holliday 3rd.

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--- ageelaw wrote:


bicyclemike wrote: In 1985 Whitey Herzog had Tommy Herr hit third, and he had a career year with I believe 110 RBI. But then he had what you might call world-class speed hitting in front of him, and those guys were on second base as much as they were on first.

A lineup that might be worth a shot with our club is Wong, Peralta, Carpenter, Holliday, Taveras, Craig, Molina, Bourjos(Jay).

If Adams plays you substitute him in for Taveras. Now you'd need to be patient with Wong as he gains experience. But the thing I like about this lineup is you flip L-R through the sixth spot. And you have Molina at 7th, where you still have a potentially productive bat but you're not as likely to clog up the bases.
I like that idea. Carpenter in the three hole. He is a great bat handler and contact man. The club could use more hit and runs and Carpenter would be better at situational hitting, moving runners, etc. I would much rather have Holliday hitting fourth than DP Craig.

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 Suggested U. of Illinois mascots

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