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Ted Simmons Hall of Famer?

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Posted: 11/7/2013 9:56 AM

Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


Simba is on the Hall of Fame ballot again. SI's Jay Jaffe explains why he thinks Simmons should go in, but concludes it may not be enough.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Posted: 11/7/2013 10:35 AM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


I like our borderline guys better than everybody else's borderline guys.

He would have benefitted from playing on better teams and in smaller parks.
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Posted: 11/7/2013 11:54 AM

Re: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


Excellent hitter. Weak defensively. Yadi is much more deserving when he becomes eligible.
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Posted: 11/7/2013 1:25 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 



blingboy wrote: I like our borderline guys better than everybody else's borderline guys.

He would have benefitted from playing on better teams and in smaller parks.
His defense was adequate and if Simba had played in NY or Boston or LA he would already be in HOF
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Posted: 11/7/2013 2:39 PM

Re: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


As far as i am concerned if Gary Carter is a hall of famer then Ted Simmons should be one too.

Rat
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Posted: 11/8/2013 1:12 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


Simba was a pretty good defensive catcher when he came up, but as with most catchers his D declined over the years. Johnny Bench said that Ted belonged, I can't argue with one of the best catchers of all time.
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Posted: 11/9/2013 2:01 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


Simba had three things going against him,yet he's still thought of by some as Hall of Famer. His career paralleled the greatest catcher in history, he played on mostly poor or medicore teams, and he played his home games in a pitcher's park.

We keep Steve Carlton, and Simmons might be in the Hall today.
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Posted: 11/9/2013 5:24 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


The litmus test for selecting HoFers is so elementary it's silly. If there exists any real debate whatsoever as to a player's merit for HoF worthiness, then you're looking a someone who should not be enshrined. I loved Simba to death as a kid which makes this oh so hard to say...I'll utter this softly....Simba was great, but not Hall of Fame great.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:33 AM

Re: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


If Piazza gets in and Simmons doesn't, I will not be happy.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 4:52 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 



pugsleyaddams wrote: The litmus test for selecting HoFers is so elementary it's silly. If there exists any real debate whatsoever as to a player's merit for HoF worthiness, then you're looking a someone who should not be enshrined. I loved Simba to death as a kid which makes this oh so hard to say...I'll utter this softly....Simba was great, but not Hall of Fame great.
Yeah! Like he said. +1

GO CARDS!
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Posted: 11/10/2013 6:59 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 



pugsleyaddams wrote: The litmus test for selecting HoFers is so elementary it's silly. If there exists any real debate whatsoever as to a player's merit for HoF worthiness, then you're looking a someone who should not be enshrined. I loved Simba to death as a kid which makes this oh so hard to say...I'll utter this softly....Simba was great, but not Hall of Fame great.
Simmons is like a lot of players - borderline.  However, other borderline players (in my mind) have made it to Cooperstown so if Simmons makes it so be it. 

In my mind Keith Hernandez is also a borderline hall of famer.  Gold Gloves, MVP, batting title, two world series.

Rat
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:37 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 




---------------------------------------------
--- RatsBuddy wrote:


pugsleyaddams wrote: The litmus test for selecting HoFers is so elementary it's silly. If there exists any real debate whatsoever as to a player's merit for HoF worthiness, then you're looking a someone who should not be enshrined. I loved Simba to death as a kid which makes this oh so hard to say...I'll utter this softly....Simba was great, but not Hall of Fame great.
Simmons is like a lot of players - borderline.  However, other borderline players (in my mind) have made it to Cooperstown so if Simmons makes it so be it. 

In my mind Keith Hernandez is also a borderline hall of famer.  Gold Gloves, MVP, batting title, two world series.

Rat

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Keith's career ended a little too soon for him to be a serious HOF candidate.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:58 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 




---------------------------------------------
--- RatsBuddy wrote:

Simmons is like a lot of players - borderline.  However, other borderline players (in my mind) have made it to Cooperstown so if Simmons makes it so be it. 


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I don't know, Rat? Continuing to allow entrance into the Hall to "borderline" personnel will only accomplish one thing.....it will cheapen it. For the Hall to be a truly sacred and special place, it's members all have to be slam dunks. If any rational debate exists as to whether a player is Cooperstown worthy, then you have to disqualify them at once. They say the Hall's attendance has been declining over recent years. Well keep giving the green light to the Ron Santos of the world and the place will transform itself into a morgue.
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Posted: 11/11/2013 7:45 AM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 



pugsleyaddams wrote: I don't know, Rat? Continuing to allow entrance into the Hall to "borderline" personnel will only accomplish one thing.....it will cheapen it. For the Hall to be a truly sacred and special place, it's members all have to be slam dunks. If any rational debate exists as to whether a player is Cooperstown worthy, then you have to disqualify them at once. They say the Hall's attendance has been declining over recent years. Well keep giving the green light to the Ron Santos of the world and the place will transform itself into a morgue.
That horse has been out of the barn for decades. Simmons was placed on the ballot for a reason. Your logic would seem to indicate there should never be a second-chance offered. If a player is not voted in the first time, he should never be.

In that case, here are some players who would NOT be in the Hall today: Red Schoendienst, Johnny Mize, Hoyt Wilhelm, Pee Wee Reese, Leo Durocher, Orlando Cepeda, Bill Mazeroski, etc.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Last edited 11/11/2013 7:57 AM by Domeboys

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Posted: 11/11/2013 7:55 AM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 



Domeboys wrote:
pugsleyaddams wrote: I don't know, Rat? Continuing to allow entrance into the Hall to "borderline" personnel will only accomplish one thing.....it will cheapen it. For the Hall to be a truly sacred and special place, it's members all have to be slam dunks. If any rational debate exists as to whether a player is Cooperstown worthy, then you have to disqualify them at once. They say the Hall's attendance has been declining over recent years. Well keep giving the green light to the Ron Santos of the world and the place will transform itself into a morgue.
That horse has been out of the barn for decades. Simmons was placed on the ballot for a reason. Your logic would seem to indicate there should never be a second-chance offered. If a player is not voted in the first time, he should never be.

I don't see why sentimentality should have a role anyway.
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Posted: 11/11/2013 8:01 AM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 



blingboy wrote: I don't see why sentimentality should have a role anyway.
If that was directed at me, I did not even hint at sentimentality. Remember that the voters are different. The first time around, the writers make the decision. These are the same guys who sometimes hold grudges and also refuse to make anyone a unanimous selection.

The various committees who consider "old-timers" have a mix of writers, players and execs, and can look back in time with a better historical perspective perhaps.

Would you exclude players from later consideration even though the vehicle exists for those who did not get a chance the first time, like managers, execs and Negro League players?
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Posted: 11/11/2013 9:14 AM

Re: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


Related to the regular ballot, Buster Olney (ESPN subscriber article) has come out in favor of the writers dropping their 10-vote maximum rule each year. The proposed change would allow more players to receive more votes and potentially, more players to get into the Hall.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter
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Posted: 11/11/2013 8:54 PM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 




---------------------------------------------
--- Domeboys wrote:


Would you exclude players from later consideration even though the vehicle exists for those who did not get a chance the first time, like managers, execs and Negro League players?

---------------------------------------------
Would I "Exclude players, like managers, execs"? Not sure if I understand that part? But yes, I would exclude the executives from the Hall and I'd fall just short of calling for managers to be excluded too. From what I believe would be most fans viewpoints, The HoF should be about the players....and a very very small handful of managers. The vast majority of fans don't want to pay money and travel vast distances to pay tribute in Cooperstown to the executives.....with the possible rare exceptions of personalities like Bill Veeck or Charlie Finley. The seasoned fans go so to step into a time capsule to once again get a glimpse of their childhood heroes and the young Cooperstown visitors go to learn of the great players from yesteryear. And they want to see only the truly great players, the cream of the crop. It seems to me that there is a movement afoot to start allowing throngs of individuals associated to the game of baseball to gain entrance into the once sacred grounds of Cooperstown....of which many played important roles in the sport, but unfortunately, not magical or magnificent in nature. What next? An umpires wing? Maybe one for the great bat boys of all time?
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Posted: 11/12/2013 6:33 AM

RE: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


Ever go back and read what you wrote the previous night and then just shake your head? Geesh. One thing is clear though. I have not been the same person since the conclusion of the 2013 WS. Anybody else out there still reeling too? It would have been much easier to take if Boston just totally kicked butt as a collective unit and swept our Cards. But these Bostonians were ripe for the picking....they really were. Even with Papi's superhuman effort, these guys were ready and poised to be defeated....beards and all. If the Cardinals would have been playing at just 50% of their normal efficiency, this series was theirs. I'm simply having a difficult time coming to grips with just how our Birds put on display such a lame and pitiful performance during the game's marquee event? Yeah I know....get over it Pugs!
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Posted: 11/12/2013 12:28 PM

Re: Ted Simmons Hall of Famer? 


Bear in mind that it's the "Hall of Fame", not the "Hall of Excellence".  Fame certainly should play a factor in the voting, which is why I think a guy like Roger Maris ought to be in.  Bowie Kuhn disagreed with me, though, back in '95 - he didn't think Roger played long enough.
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