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2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21

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Posted: 8/18/2013 4:45 PM

2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


Jake Westbrook (7-8, 4.35) vs. Tom Gorzelanny (3-4, 2.95). 1:10 PM CT. FOX Sports Midwest and KMOX.

Lineup: Carpenter 4, Beltran 9, Holliday 7, Craig 3, Molina 2, Freese 5, Kozma 6, Robinson 8, Westbrook 1.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
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Last edited 8/21/2013 11:35 AM by Domeboys

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Posted: 8/20/2013 11:39 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


I was hoping we wouldn't see Jake's name in the starting rotation anymore. I thought last game was his last chance and honestly believed he would be removed. But alas, apparently Mike will give it another go.

Jake is 0-3 with a 11.02 ERA in August. 6.60 ERA over his last 10 games. 5.46 ERA on the road this year (all games). Mercy.
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Posted: 8/20/2013 12:14 PM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



DMENS wrote: I was hoping we wouldn't see Jake's name in the starting rotation anymore. I thought last game was his last chance and honestly believed he would be removed. But alas, apparently Mike will give it another go.

Jake is 0-3 with a 11.02 ERA in August. 6.60 ERA over his last 10 games. 5.46 ERA on the road this year (all games). Mercy.

I assume Lyons and Wacha will be ready if needed. Westbrook's ERA wouldn't be THAT bad without that Shelby Miller start he got thrown into.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 6:53 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


again, another "must win" today weds.....21 Aug13....

and having Westbrook and his 10.00 era (in the last 4 games) doesn't give me a warm feeling about him being our most recent "stopper"
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  • MAP315
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Posted: 8/21/2013 7:55 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


Westbrook will not pitch well. With the lefty going for the Brewers if this is a must win we are in trouble.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 8:30 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 




---------------------------------------------
--- PadsFS wrote:

I assume Lyons and Wacha will be ready if needed.

---------------------------------------------

Boy did Wacha get whacked on Monday night! I suspect that won't happen again for quite some time. And how about that throw to 1st Wacha airmailed over Craig's head? Honestly have you ever witnessed a throw to 1st that was so off base? I was there so I don't know if the TV shot picked it up, but there was a beer vendor who was nearly a football field away from Wacha who dumped his payload trying to avoid getting hit by that errant heave. The throw came up just shy of entering the stands but from afar it must have looked to that poor vendor like he was going to get nailed.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 9:01 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


I'd like to see Carp/Wong at the top of the order. Lets see what that looks like. Eventually, Wong/Carp, maybe, but for now, Carp/Wong. Jay can hit down in the order vs the lefty. Holliday, Beltran and Molina are much hotter with the bat right now than Craig, so I'd clump them together in the order right after Carp and Wong. I think it would help generate big innings more often if the hot bats were all in a row. Never happen if Craig is in the lineup, might if he's not.

I'll be glad when we get back around to Wainwright and Kelly.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 9:17 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



MAP315 wrote: Westbrook will not pitch well. With the lefty going for the Brewers if this is a must win we are in trouble.

I think this is going to be the redemption act for Westbrook.

Just wait!
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Posted: 8/21/2013 9:22 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 




---------------------------------------------
--- blingboy wrote:

I'll be glad when we get back around to Wainwright and Kelly.

---------------------------------------------

Boy has Kelly sure come along way here in a short period of time.....and just in the nick of time. Let's look at the big picture realistically here since the trade deadline has come and gone. The Cards are going to need one of their young arms to step up from this day forth and pitch out of their minds in the starting rotation if they are going to have a shot at winning it all. Plenty of potential candidates, but as of yet none stand out head and heels above the others to potentially fill the bill. Even with his recent pitching woos I think Rosenthal is the man. Maybe his arm is yearning to be stretched out? Not a lot of 2013 miles on it either. I bet he'd rise to the occasion. Stick Siegrist in Rosenthal's present role. The guy has given up only 8 hits in 25 frames....I know only a relatively small sampling, but that's just plain sick.....in a good way.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 9:41 AM

Re: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


One of the few grudges I hold against Matheny is how he failed to adjust the rotation in a way that kept Jake from ever pitching against the Pirates, especially at PNC. We all know how that worked out, when on July 29th the Pirates scored 4 runs before Jake retired his first batter, and the tone of the season changed.

I know Jake had that weird Miller-injury outing, but since July 29th he hasn't been the same. In July prior to the fateful opener at Pittsburgh, Jake had a 2.96 ERA. The four following, it exploded to 10.13. Who is to say the necessary adjustments would have saved Jake's August, but it does make me wonder.

Matheny's comments shared in the PD today, by the way, indicate some regret over how he has managed Westbrook. To Jake's credit, his schedule has been irregular (3 DR on the Miller start, 8 DR heading in to the Cubs start). While he has failed miserably to endure the trials he does at least have an excuse to point to.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 10:45 AM

Re: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


The only way to adjust the rotation to keep Westbrook from pitching in Pittsburgh would have been to skip him altogether and call someone else up for a start (which they were already doing with Lyons), since they had previously made the decision to skip Miller for 12 days before and after the break.  Had they kept Miller in the rotation they could have adjusted things during the San Diego/Philadelphia/Atlanta series to ensure that Jake pitched in Atlanta on Sunday prior to the Pirates' series.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 11:20 AM

Re: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



Jmodene1 wrote: The only way to adjust the rotation to keep Westbrook from pitching in Pittsburgh would have been to skip him altogether and call someone else up for a start (which they were already doing with Lyons), since they had previously made the decision to skip Miller for 12 days before and after the break.  Had they kept Miller in the rotation they could have adjusted things during the San Diego/Philadelphia/Atlanta series to ensure that Jake pitched in Atlanta on Sunday prior to the Pirates' series.

IIRC, adjusting the rotation at the break to have Wainwright go the first game and maximize his number of starts was the goal.  Being unable to have Westbrook mis Pit might have been an unavoidable consequence of that.  Of course, one could argue it doesn't make sense to juggle the rotation in hopes of getting one or two more wins if the side effects of the juggling cost as many or more wins.  Perhaps Mike had the wrong goal in mind when he shook things up.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 11:24 AM

Re: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



blingboy wrote: IIRC, adjusting the rotation at the break to have Wainwright go the first game and maximize his number of starts was the goal.  Being unable to have Westbrook mis Pit might have been an unavoidable consequence of that.  Of course, one could argue it doesn't make sense to juggle the rotation in hopes of getting one or two more wins if the side effects of the juggling cost as many or more wins.  Perhaps Mike had the wrong goal in mind when he shook things up.
Very interesting how that strategy reversed itself. Within a month, Wainwright was getting extra time off, too.
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/21/2013 11:36 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


Lineup added to first post. Jay gets a rest, but Molina plays in fifth straight game. Interesting.
Brian Walton
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Posted: 8/21/2013 11:40 AM

Re: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



DMENS wrote: One of the few grudges I hold against Matheny is how he failed to adjust the rotation in a way that kept Jake from ever pitching against the Pirates, especially at PNC. We all know how that worked out, when on July 29th the Pirates scored 4 runs before Jake retired his first batter, and the tone of the season changed.

I know Jake had that weird Miller-injury outing, but since July 29th he hasn't been the same. In July prior to the fateful opener at Pittsburgh, Jake had a 2.96 ERA. The four following, it exploded to 10.13. Who is to say the necessary adjustments would have saved Jake's August, but it does make me wonder.

Matheny's comments shared in the PD today, by the way, indicate some regret over how he has managed Westbrook. To Jake's credit, his schedule has been irregular (3 DR on the Miller start, 8 DR heading in to the Cubs start). While he has failed miserably to endure the trials he does at least have an excuse to point to.

Westbrook's peripherals were SCREAMING regression all season long. It's no wonder he was done in. His ERA was a complete fluke.  With Westbrook, you'll get a season's worth of 6 inning, 3 run games (averaged) and no more, no less.

Last edited 8/21/2013 11:41 AM by PadsFS

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  • MAP315
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Posted: 8/21/2013 11:47 AM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



Domeboys wrote: Lineup added to first post. Jay gets a rest, but Molina plays in fifth straight game. Interesting.

yes and day game after a night one. I thought they were going to rest him more after the DL trip.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 11:57 AM

Re: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



PadsFS wrote: Westbrook's peripherals were SCREAMING regression all season long. It's no wonder he was done in. His ERA was a complete fluke.  With Westbrook, you'll get a season's worth of 6 inning, 3 run games (averaged) and no more, no less.
Westbrook has more than just regressed, which we were all expecting and ready for. We're not talking about frustration over a guy's ERA dropping from the two's to the four's. We're talking about a pitcher who has given up 15 first-inning runs over his last four starts and is walking more guys than he is striking out. If Jake could go six and give up three runs, I think we'd all be pretty satisfied with that.
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Posted: 8/21/2013 12:03 PM

RE: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



MAP315 wrote:
Domeboys wrote: Lineup added to first post. Jay gets a rest, but Molina plays in fifth straight game. Interesting.
yes and day game after a night one. I thought they were going to rest him more after the DL trip.
Cardinals had planned to rest him today. What changed their minds?
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Posted: 8/21/2013 12:20 PM

Re: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 


Managing of this roster has been atrocious this year. I am all for looking for a new manager at end of year. it will never happen but IMO Matheny is really hurting this team.

GO CARDS!
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Posted: 8/21/2013 12:38 PM

Re: 2013 MLB game 126 thread: Cards at Brewers, Wed 8/21 



DMENS wrote:
PadsFS wrote: Westbrook's peripherals were SCREAMING regression all season long. It's no wonder he was done in. His ERA was a complete fluke.  With Westbrook, you'll get a season's worth of 6 inning, 3 run games (averaged) and no more, no less.
Westbrook has more than just regressed, which we were all expecting and ready for. We're not talking about frustration over a guy's ERA dropping from the two's to the four's. We're talking about a pitcher who has given up 15 first-inning runs over his last four starts and is walking more guys than he is striking out. If Jake could go six and give up three runs, I think we'd all be pretty satisfied with that.


That's not how regression works really. All of his good starts in the first half are now averaged with the recent bad ones and you get the final product (an ERA in the 4.00's, six innings per start, etc)....much like Jon Jay's hot/cold streaks which lead to the inevitable hardheaded thread about how terrible he is trumped a month later.

If Westbrook had replaced all these clunkers with 6 innings of 3 run ball, his ERA would level out in the mid-3.00's. We would all be like, wow(!!) Westbrook had a great season. He just isn't a 2.00-3.00 ERA pitcher though.

The potential problem with Westbrook in 2013 is that his K/BB rate is at it's worst point in his career. Thus, he may be done altogether, basically running on fumes in the first half...That's no good.

Last edited 8/21/2013 12:49 PM by PadsFS

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