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Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today.

Posted: 7/17/2013 4:45 PM

Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


This years Competitive Balance Lottery was much kinder to the Cardinals as they nab the 3rd Comp. Round B pick in today's Competitive Balance Lottery held at the MLB HQ. Any time you get an extra pick this high in the draft that's a tremendous value and asset to possess in a draft. 

For those unfamiliar with this read more about it here: mlb.mlb.com/news/articl...lb&c_id=mlb

Last edited 7/17/2013 4:53 PM by DTFlush234

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Posted: 7/17/2013 4:51 PM

Re: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


especially since next year's draft is MUCH deeper than this year's
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Posted: 7/17/2013 4:55 PM

Re: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


I don't much on the 2014 draft yet but if it is you can never have to many draft in the higher rounds. More the draft picks the more the talent and upside.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 5:10 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


So are we eligible for the lottery because of the St. Louis market size? I read a little about the Competitive Balance Lottery but it wasn't completely clear to me.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 5:13 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


Also, I see that the picks can be traded which means this is a new asset available for the club to use before the trade deadline if necessary.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 5:41 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 




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--- DMENS wrote:

Also, I see that the picks can be traded which means this is a new asset available for the club to use before the trade deadline if necessary.

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No, that's only the international bonus slots that can be traded.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 5:59 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


Yes, they can.  Quote from this article:

"Competitive Balance Lottery picks can be traded, marking the first time Draft picks of any sort have been made available for trades. Teams from last year took advantage of that rule, with two trades involving picks taking place. The Miami Marlins were involved in both. They traded lottery picks with the Tigers, giving up what ended up being pick No. 39 and receiving pick No. 73. They also added the Pirates' pick, No. 35, when they sent Gaby Sanchez to Pittsburgh at the Deadline."

DTFlush234 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- DMENS wrote:

Also, I see that the picks can be traded which means this is a new asset available for the club to use before the trade deadline if necessary.

---------------------------------------------

No, that's only the international bonus slots that can be traded.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 5:59 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



DTFlush234 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- DMENS wrote:

Also, I see that the picks can be traded which means this is a new asset available for the club to use before the trade deadline if necessary.

---------------------------------------------

No, that's only the international bonus slots that can be traded.
No, the competitive balance picks can be traded also.  The Tigers and the Marlins did it last year in the Anibal Sanchez trade.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 6:37 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



DMENS wrote: So are we eligible for the lottery because of the St. Louis market size? I read a little about the Competitive Balance Lottery but it wasn't completely clear to me.

Good question.  Teams are eligible if they are in small markets and are low revenue (the latter is not true of the Cardinals, and the first is questionable).  A better question would be, is a team like the Cardinals on the wrong side of the "competitive balance" ledger.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 6:52 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



KatieCubFan wrote:
DMENS wrote: So are we eligible for the lottery because of the St. Louis market size? I read a little about the Competitive Balance Lottery but it wasn't completely clear to me.

Good question.  Teams are eligible if they are in small markets and are low revenue (the latter is not true of the Cardinals, and the first is questionable).  A better question would be, is a team like the Cardinals on the wrong side of the "competitive balance" ledger.
Why would you say the Cardinals are not in a small market?  The Cardinals are ranked 21st out of 30 teams in terms of market size.  That is in the bottom third.  

Are you equating "revenue" with payroll?  I don't think that payroll is the criteria.  The Cardinals have a fairly high payroll, but that doesn't necessarily equate to revenue. Some teams spend more and retain less with similar revenue streams to others.  The Cardinals are consistently in the top tier of teams because they are willing to spend the money for good players, but still spend wisely.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 7:35 PM

Re: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


I've always heard that they were a mid-market team, but you corrected that.  Thanks for clarifying.  As for revenue, the Cardinals are 7th in MLB at $239 million, only $6 million behind the Dodgers.

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valu...ion:desc_search:

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Posted: 7/17/2013 7:46 PM

Re: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



KatieCubFan wrote: 

I've always heard that they were a mid-market team, but you corrected that.  Thanks for clarifying.  As for revenue, the Cardinals are 7th in MLB at $239 million, only $6 million behind the Dodgers.

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valu...ion:desc_search:

Well, I don't know how MLB defines "revenue" for the purposes of the competitive balance pick.  Perhaps they don't just consider money taken in, but also the debt carried.  The Cardinals have a fairly high debt, no doubt because of money still owed on the stadium.  If they factor in debt, the Cardinals may be lower on the scale.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 7:47 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



crdswmn wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
DMENS wrote: So are we eligible for the lottery because of the St. Louis market size? I read a little about the Competitive Balance Lottery but it wasn't completely clear to me.

Good question.  Teams are eligible if they are in small markets and are low revenue (the latter is not true of the Cardinals, and the first is questionable).  A better question would be, is a team like the Cardinals on the wrong side of the "competitive balance" ledger.
Why would you say the Cardinals are not in a small market?  The Cardinals are ranked 21st out of 30 teams in terms of market size.  That is in the bottom third.  

Are you equating "revenue" with payroll?  I don't think that payroll is the criteria.  The Cardinals have a fairly high payroll, but that doesn't necessarily equate to revenue. Some teams spend more and retain less with similar revenue streams to others.  The Cardinals are consistently in the top tier of teams because they are willing to spend the money for good players, but still spend wisely.

The Cardinals are only "small" market by the way MLB measures it.  If you took in all of the area of their broadcast network and generations of fans beyond that, STL is not a small market team.  That is even more clear since the Cardinals are 7th in revenue.  That revenue level is nearly impossible for a real "small" market.

I love the draft pick for the Cards but I could easily understand the angst expressed by this for the Reds since they didn't get a pick (they were in the lottery).
KBoyer14HOF
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Posted: 7/17/2013 7:51 PM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



mike87114 wrote:
crdswmn wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote:
DMENS wrote: So are we eligible for the lottery because of the St. Louis market size? I read a little about the Competitive Balance Lottery but it wasn't completely clear to me.

Good question.  Teams are eligible if they are in small markets and are low revenue (the latter is not true of the Cardinals, and the first is questionable).  A better question would be, is a team like the Cardinals on the wrong side of the "competitive balance" ledger.
Why would you say the Cardinals are not in a small market?  The Cardinals are ranked 21st out of 30 teams in terms of market size.  That is in the bottom third.  

Are you equating "revenue" with payroll?  I don't think that payroll is the criteria.  The Cardinals have a fairly high payroll, but that doesn't necessarily equate to revenue. Some teams spend more and retain less with similar revenue streams to others.  The Cardinals are consistently in the top tier of teams because they are willing to spend the money for good players, but still spend wisely.

The Cardinals are only "small" market by the way MLB measures it.  If you took in all of the area of their broadcast network and generations of fans beyond that, STL is not a small market team.  That is even more clear since the Cardinals are 7th in revenue.  That revenue level is nearly impossible for a real "small" market.

I love the draft pick for the Cards but I could easily understand the angst expressed by this for the Reds since they didn't get a pick (they were in the lottery).
But it is MLB who decides who gets to be in the lottery, so it stands to reason they would use their own definition of market size.

We all know that the Cardinals historically have a wider fan base nationally than their location and TV market would suggest.  All you have to do is look at all the Cardinals fans in the stands on road trips.  Most of those fans are local, St. Louis area fans don't travel to all those places.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 8:53 PM

Re: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



crdswmn wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote: 

I've always heard that they were a mid-market team, but you corrected that.  Thanks for clarifying.  As for revenue, the Cardinals are 7th in MLB at $239 million, only $6 million behind the Dodgers.

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valu...ion:desc_search:

Well, I don't know how MLB defines "revenue" for the purposes of the competitive balance pick.  Perhaps they don't just consider money taken in, but also the debt carried.  The Cardinals have a fairly high debt, no doubt because of money still owed on the stadium.  If they factor in debt, the Cardinals may be lower on the scale.

I think it's how they define market size.  The Rangers have the same revenue as the Cardinals, with more debt, and are not eligible.
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Posted: 7/17/2013 9:21 PM

Re: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



KatieCubFan wrote:
crdswmn wrote:
KatieCubFan wrote: 

I've always heard that they were a mid-market team, but you corrected that.  Thanks for clarifying.  As for revenue, the Cardinals are 7th in MLB at $239 million, only $6 million behind the Dodgers.

http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valu...ion:desc_search:

Well, I don't know how MLB defines "revenue" for the purposes of the competitive balance pick.  Perhaps they don't just consider money taken in, but also the debt carried.  The Cardinals have a fairly high debt, no doubt because of money still owed on the stadium.  If they factor in debt, the Cardinals may be lower on the scale.

I think it's how they define market size.  The Rangers have the same revenue as the Cardinals, with more debt, and are not eligible.
It must be some sort of weighted formula of market size and revenue they use to come up with a ranking.  I noticed that eligible teams such as the Dback, Rays and Mariners are in much larger markets (12th, 13th, and 14th) but have lower revenue, while some low revenue teams with large market size like the Astros (10th in market size) aren't eligible.  I'm guessing St. Louis's market size gave it the edge, considering the fairly high revenue.
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Posted: 7/18/2013 6:22 AM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


If I remember correctly, to qualify for the competitive balance pick it is an either or situtation, either in one of the 10 smallest markets or one of the 10 smallest revenue teams. Of course several teams meet both criteria. But as long as St. Louis is considered a small market, because of the population density near the ballpark, the Cardinals should qualify for the pick, no matter how much revenue. Think of it as a reward to front offices that are able to generate a large fanbase desipte their small market size.

21st Century postseason wins:
St. Louis(56),NYY(51),BOS(45),SFG(33),PHI(27),DET(25),LAA(21),TEX(18),ARI(16),LAD(14),TB-ATL-HOU-OAK(13),CHW(12),FLA(11),COL-CLE(8),MIL-MIN(6),CHC(6),NYM(6),SEA(4),PIT-BAL(3),CIN-WAS(2),SD(1),TOR-KC(0)
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Posted: 7/18/2013 7:06 AM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



mike87114 wrote:
I love the draft pick for the Cards but I could easily understand the angst expressed by this for the Reds since they didn't get a pick (they were in the lottery).
The Reds got a pick this year and the Cards didn't, so tough.

edit: redface

Last edited 7/18/2013 8:43 AM by blingboy

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Posted: 7/18/2013 8:31 AM

Re: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 


I put up a brief summary of the Competitive Balance Lottery from a Cardinals perspective here. (I also point readers to the discussion on this thread.)
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter

Last edited 7/18/2013 8:31 AM by Domeboys

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Posted: 7/18/2013 9:21 AM

RE: Cardinals receive extra comp pick in Balance Lottery today. 



Oqie11 wrote: If I remember correctly, to qualify for the competitive balance pick it is an either or situtation, either in one of the 10 smallest markets or one of the 10 smallest revenue teams. Of course several teams meet both criteria. But as long as St. Louis is considered a small market, because of the population density near the ballpark, the Cardinals should qualify for the pick, no matter how much revenue. Think of it as a reward to front offices that are able to generate a large fanbase desipte their small market size.
Is it the front office that's responsible for the large fan base?  I imagine the Cardinals have always had a strong following.  They're an old, storied franchise and a very successful one at that.
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