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Minor league thread: Mon 7/15

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Posted: 7/15/2013 12:30 AM

Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


Mem: off, Spr: C Carpenter, PB(2): Hald, TBA, Peo: Jones, SC: Paulino, JC: McKnight, GCL/DSL: TBA.

Subscribers should welcome DTFlush234, who is sitting in for vacationing UConn on the daily Minor League Notebooks for a spell.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter
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Posted: 7/15/2013 8:32 AM

RE: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


Well let me see, is anything of particular interest happening in the minors today, hmmmm?

I enjoy DT's minors recaps on that other site, I am happy he has made the jump to the big time.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 10:37 AM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 



I'm pretty excited to follow this Springfield game tonight. Go Carpenter!
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Posted: 7/15/2013 12:08 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


Oscar Taveras is back today. Rehabbing in the GCL....
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Posted: 7/15/2013 12:24 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


OT doubled in his only at bat doubled than was pinched-run for by Asbury.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 1:32 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


I read on twitter that he walked in the 1st and doubled in the 3rd.

Also read that he played CF. Paraphrasing but someone made the comment elsewhere that these idiots in the front office keep playing him in CF even though they have no intention of playing him there in the big leagues!!!
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Posted: 7/15/2013 2:19 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


Giving all the rope he needs.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 2:38 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


Please tell me some reason Taveras (If that's who you're talking about) can't be a center fielder; I'd love to hear it
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Posted: 7/15/2013 2:52 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 



Brosky wrote: Please tell me some reason Taveras (If that's who you're talking about) can't be a center fielder; I'd love to hear it
He can play center field, he is just not very good at it. 

I happen to like good defense in CF, so I would not put him there.  If Tommy Pham can stay healthy he is MUCH better in CF. Worlds better in fact.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 3:01 PM

RE: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


Not very good compared to Willie Mays. I'd like to see how he compares to Jay.

I like a lineup featuring Taveras, Holliday, Craig, Adams better than Taveras, Holliday, Craig, Jay/Pham.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 3:09 PM

RE: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 



blingboy wrote: Not very good compared to Willie Mays. I'd like to see how he compares to Jay.

I like a lineup featuring Taveras, Holliday, Craig, Adams better than Taveras, Holliday, Craig, Jay/Pham.
Is the hyperbole necessary?  If you want Willie Mays in CF, learn how to clone.  Otherwise, let's be realistic.  Oscar is not the only alternative to Jay.

If you don't care about defense in CF, then fine, Oscar's your guy, have fun.  But I've watched him out there and I am not impressed.

Last edited 7/15/2013 3:10 PM by crdswmn

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Posted: 7/15/2013 3:26 PM

RE: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


I am very much in favor of strong D up the middle. I have not seen Taveras, but my impression is his D would not be much, if any, downgrade over Jay. I am aware there are possibilities beyond Jay or Taveras for CF. My preference would be to get all the big bats in the lineup if there would not be a significant downgrade in defense from what we have now.

The Willie Mays comment reflects the fact that since Edmonds left we have gotten along pretty well with so-so D out there. I am sure we could continue to do so.

I admit Taveras might turn out to be much worse than Jay defensively. If that decision is made somewhere along the line, before or after he arrives, so be it. But I would not place too much weight on your small sample of personal observation of him. The Cards org has not pulled the plug yet.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 3:29 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 




---------------------------------------------
--- crdswmn wrote:


Brosky wrote: Please tell me some reason Taveras (If that's who you're talking about) can't be a center fielder; I'd love to hear it
He can play center field, he is just not very good at it. 

I happen to like good defense in CF, so I would not put him there.  If Tommy Pham can stay healthy he is MUCH better in CF. Worlds better in fact.

---------------------------------------------

"He is not very good in CF". Have you ever seen him play?
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Posted: 7/15/2013 3:36 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


Taveras is an outfielder with speed, is he not?  He's a baseball player, is he not?  Furthermore he's what--20 yrs. old?  Players get better at any position if they work at it.  Look at Matt Carpenter's defense at 2B; who woulda thought that would be possible?  I have no doubt an athletic outfielder with speed can learn to play CF adequately, and if he produces on offense like he's projected to, adequate will work just fine.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 3:44 PM

RE: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 



blingboy wrote: I am very much in favor of strong D up the middle. I have not seen Taveras, but my impression is his D would not be much, if any, downgrade over Jay. I am aware there are possibilities beyond Jay or Taveras for CF. My preference would be to get all the big bats in the lineup if there would not be a significant downgrade in defense from what we have now.

The Willie Mays comment reflects the fact that since Edmonds left we have gotten along pretty well with so-so D out there. I am sure we could continue to do so.

I admit Taveras might turn out to be much worse than Jay defensively. If that decision is made somewhere along the line, before or after he arrives, so be it. But I would not place too much weight on your small sample of personal observation of him. The Cards org has not pulled the plug yet.
I don't expect anyone to put in any weight on my personal observation of Oscar or anyone else for that matter.  I gave an opinion, and my opinion is based on my personal observation and what I have read about his CF defense from scouting reports.  I also know others who have more personal observation of him than I do who share that opinion.  Again, opinion is opinion.

Of course the org hasn't "pulled the plug".  They have no reason to.  But where someone plays in the minor leagues does not determine where they will or should play in the big leagues.

I have different standards than you.  So-so defense is not acceptable to me, just like so-so offense is not acceptable to you.  I get pummeled when I suggest we don't need a lot of offense at SS, but that opinion seems to be not worthy when not needing good defense seems to be just fine.  It's all a matter of preference and priorities.  So when someone asks why Oscar shouldn't play CF I am going to tell them why.  He isn't any good at it.  That's my opinion.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 3:46 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 



DTFlush234 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- crdswmn wrote:


Brosky wrote: Please tell me some reason Taveras (If that's who you're talking about) can't be a center fielder; I'd love to hear it
He can play center field, he is just not very good at it. 

I happen to like good defense in CF, so I would not put him there.  If Tommy Pham can stay healthy he is MUCH better in CF. Worlds better in fact.

---------------------------------------------

"He is not very good in CF". Have you ever seen him play?
Many times.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 3:48 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


---------------------------------------------
--- Brosky wrote:

Taveras is an outfielder with speed, is he not?  He's a baseball player, is he not?  Furthermore he's what--20 yrs. old?  Players get better at any position if they work at it.  Look at Matt Carpenter's defense at 2B; who woulda thought that would be possible?  I have no doubt an athletic outfielder with speed can learn to play CF adequately, and if he produces on offense like he's projected to, adequate will work just fine.

---------------------------------------------

Exactly. Fielding is the only tool that has the greatest chance of improvement with constant word and practice. That's what Taveras has done to improve vastly over the past two seasons. Takes solid routes and gets improved reads off the bat that allows him to cover such ground to make plays. He can do this when he's fully healthy if not his range is affected like it has this season with the high-ankle sprain.

Last edited 7/15/2013 3:54 PM by DTFlush234

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Posted: 7/15/2013 5:21 PM

RE: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 



crdswmn wrote:
blingboy wrote: I am very much in favor of strong D up the middle. I have not seen Taveras, but my impression is his D would not be much, if any, downgrade over Jay. I am aware there are possibilities beyond Jay or Taveras for CF. My preference would be to get all the big bats in the lineup if there would not be a significant downgrade in defense from what we have now.

The Willie Mays comment reflects the fact that since Edmonds left we have gotten along pretty well with so-so D out there. I am sure we could continue to do so.

I admit Taveras might turn out to be much worse than Jay defensively. If that decision is made somewhere along the line, before or after he arrives, so be it. But I would not place too much weight on your small sample of personal observation of him. The Cards org has not pulled the plug yet.
I don't expect anyone to put in any weight on my personal observation of Oscar or anyone else for that matter.  I gave an opinion, and my opinion is based on my personal observation and what I have read about his CF defense from scouting reports.  I also know others who have more personal observation of him than I do who share that opinion.  Again, opinion is opinion.

Of course the org hasn't "pulled the plug".  They have no reason to.  But where someone plays in the minor leagues does not determine where they will or should play in the big leagues.

I have different standards than you.  So-so defense is not acceptable to me, just like so-so offense is not acceptable to you.  I get pummeled when I suggest we don't need a lot of offense at SS, but that opinion seems to be not worthy when not needing good defense seems to be just fine.  It's all a matter of preference and priorities.  So when someone asks why Oscar shouldn't play CF I am going to tell them why.  He isn't any good at it.  That's my opinion.
I completely agree that great defense up the middle makes the game so much more enjoyable. I don't know how they're going to work Taveras into the lineup, but I'm sure they'll find a way. Lets not forget that we have several promising CF prospects on the way including Pham, Tilson, Ramsey, and McElroy. None of these four are expected to hit like Taveras is expected to hit, but they all look like they will hit at least as good as Jay has been hitting for the last year. I don't expect to see Pham in St. Louis before September 1, but I'm looking forward to seeing play some CF here this fall.

Also, regarding defense up the middle, I have to admire Kozma's arm and the quickness he has for getting the ball out of the glove. I do, however, think he lacks something in range, and I wish he would figure out what he's doing wrong with the bat.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 5:24 PM

RE: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


For those who have doubts about Pham:

Would you want a CFer with above average defense who did the following over 162 games:

.293/.361/.476/.837
595 AB
24 doubles
17 triples
17 HR
94 RBI
17 SB

That is what his 2013 stats total out to when averaged out to 162 games.
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Posted: 7/15/2013 5:25 PM

Re: Minor league thread: Mon 7/15 


Right.  And the longer I think about it, our team is essentially made up of "adequate" defenders.  Other than Molina, I can't think of any "great" defenders.  Craig is merely adequate, no matter where you put him.  Same with Jay, Beltran, and Holliday.  Same with Freese and Kozma (who needs to be sent down to AAA in my opinion, simply isn't a major league hitter).  There are no Boyers or Rietzes on this team, no Ozzie, no Tom Herr, no Keith Hernandez, no Jimmy Edmonds, period.  I would say every defender lined up behind our pitcher is adequate, nothing more.
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