Domeboys wrote: Surprising story from ESPN.

crdswmn wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Surprising story from ESPN.

Well, isn't that special.

Not surprised though.  It's the trend to screw the little guy.

bicyclemike wrote: As it states late in the article, defined-benefit pension plans are largely fading from the private business sector.  Most corporations are going towards contribution-based plans such as 401k's.

So this is not a big surprise to me - although I will say it is surprising that an $8 billion industry can't find ways to structure a pension. But then, the industry's operating costs are heavily skewed towards player salaries, and it's a story because of the outrageous player salary structure and the fact that it is high-profile. I think MLB is on the road to a salary cap at some point. It's either that, or a continual whittling away of expenses such as these, and continual passing on to the consumer (fan) of costs of other things such as licensed products, concessions, parking, and tickets.

mudville wrote: I know nothing about pensions and what it takes to fund them. I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it. The choices the Owners seem to have had are:
1. Don't worry about properly funding the pension plans. Do something when it becomes a problem.
2. Take money out of players' salaries to fund pension plans.
3. Take money out of your retained earnings to pay for it, assuming there is enough there to take some out of, and reduce the amount money you can spend on player's contracts.
4. Raise ticket prices to get more money to fund pension plans.
5. Instead of paying into pension plans, start paying into
401K's like most employers outside of the public sector do.

You can't assume that there is only greed at play here.

crdswmn wrote:

mudville wrote: I know nothing about pensions and what it takes to fund them. I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it. The choices the Owners seem to have had are:
1. Don't worry about properly funding the pension plans. Do something when it becomes a problem.
2. Take money out of players' salaries to fund pension plans.
3. Take money out of your retained earnings to pay for it, assuming there is enough there to take some out of, and reduce the amount money you can spend on player's contracts.
4. Raise ticket prices to get more money to fund pension plans.
5. Instead of paying into pension plans, start paying into
401K's like most employers outside of the public sector do.

You can't assume that there is only greed at play here.

But it's okay to assume that the organizations are so financially hamstrung that they can't fund their pensions?

There is a galaxy of difference between state government budgets and a multi-billion dollar sports industry.

mudville wrote:

crdswmn wrote:

mudville wrote: I know nothing about pensions and what it takes to fund them. I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it. The choices the Owners seem to have had are:
1. Don't worry about properly funding the pension plans. Do something when it becomes a problem.
2. Take money out of players' salaries to fund pension plans.
3. Take money out of your retained earnings to pay for it, assuming there is enough there to take some out of, and reduce the amount money you can spend on player's contracts.
4. Raise ticket prices to get more money to fund pension plans.
5. Instead of paying into pension plans, start paying into
401K's like most employers outside of the public sector do.

You can't assume that there is only greed at play here.

But it's okay to assume that the organizations are so financially hamstrung that they can't fund their pensions?

There is a galaxy of difference between state government budgets and a multi-billion dollar sports industry.

I wish everybody had a big enough pension to allow them to live very comfortably for all of their retired life. But it costs a whole lot of money to pay a regular salary to someone who's not working. That money has got to come from somewhere, and in the end, it is the people who are still working who do the paying.

The Cardinals apparently have a budget. It appears to be based on a rationale like this: We need this much money to justify even being in business given the amount of our investment and the amount of risk that we feel we have. In the case of the Cardinals they have a 350M loan to pay off, and if the fans stop coming as they have in some other cities, then they are stuck with it. That's 350M!. They also have their fixed costs which they must pay. What's left over they can use for player's salaries. The Cardinals apparently increase what they will spend on players' salaries when their income exceeds what they feel is a safe and fair profit for themselves plus their fixed costs. They could fund the pensions by spending less on players' salaries, but then they would be less competitive and they would start selling less tickets and their income would go down as the dwindling spiral begins. The other thing they could do is raise ticket prices. But that could actually lower their gross income if a lot of fans decide they will stay home rather than pay the extra cost. All I'm saying is that there are other things to consider.

mudville wrote:  I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it.

bicyclemike wrote:

mudville wrote:  I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it.

Tell me about it. A buddy of mine worked for the state of Colorado for 15 years, and retired at 55 with a $45K per year pension.

With deals like that, the state is basically paying people not to work. It's no wonder the budget is unbalanced.

crdswmn wrote:

bicyclemike wrote:

mudville wrote:  I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it.

Tell me about it. A buddy of mine worked for the state of Colorado for 15 years, and retired at 55 with a $45K per year pension.

With deals like that, the state is basically paying people not to work. It's no wonder the budget is unbalanced.

Okay, I'm out of this conversation.  I'm not touching this nonsense.

mudville wrote:

crdswmn wrote:

bicyclemike wrote:

mudville wrote:  I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it.

Tell me about it. A buddy of mine worked for the state of Colorado for 15 years, and retired at 55 with a $45K per year pension.

With deals like that, the state is basically paying people not to work. It's no wonder the budget is unbalanced.

Okay, I'm out of this conversation.  I'm not touching this nonsense.

You're all heart and not much sense on this one, crdswmn.

I've stated my case, and now I'm out on this one, too.

crdswmn wrote:

mudville wrote:

crdswmn wrote:

bicyclemike wrote:

mudville wrote:  I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it.

Tell me about it. A buddy of mine worked for the state of Colorado for 15 years, and retired at 55 with a $45K per year pension.

With deals like that, the state is basically paying people not to work. It's no wonder the budget is unbalanced.

Okay, I'm out of this conversation.  I'm not touching this nonsense.

You're all heart and not much sense on this one, crdswmn.

I've stated my case, and now I'm out on this one, too.

My female self, with my Bachelor's degree in Economics, my law degree, and my 25 years experience in state government, thanks you for your condescension.   SSF.

mudville wrote:

crdswmn wrote:

mudville wrote:

crdswmn wrote:

bicyclemike wrote:

mudville wrote:  I do know that the states of Illinois and California have pension plans that don't have enough money in them and that they are in a world of financial trouble because of it.

Tell me about it. A buddy of mine worked for the state of Colorado for 15 years, and retired at 55 with a $45K per year pension.

With deals like that, the state is basically paying people not to work. It's no wonder the budget is unbalanced.

Okay, I'm out of this conversation.  I'm not touching this nonsense.

You're all heart and not much sense on this one, crdswmn.

I've stated my case, and now I'm out on this one, too.

My female self, with my Bachelor's degree in Economics, my law degree, and my 25 years experience in state government, thanks you for your condescension.   SSF.

We should try to ferret out the chauvinists on this forum and publish their avatars so people know.....