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2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals

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Posted: 3/6/2013 8:43 AM

2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


Let's start with the lineup, shall we?

1B
Allen Craig
Corey Hart

Both guys have injury issues.  Both guys can mash.  I'll say their defense is equal.  Both are 30HR capable but neither can get a full season in due to injuries.  Craig is made of glass more so than Hart.  If Craig stays healthy, then Craig is the better player.  We all know that won't happen though, so I will say they're equal.  Healthy vs Healthy Craig does get the slight nod.

2B
Daniel Descalso
Predator

Weeks really sucked the first half of last year.  He rebounded nicely in the 2nd half though with a 800OPS.  He's an undisputed top 5 2B still.  He's also injury prone.  He did put together an injury free season last year though to his credit.  His defense is ******* terrible and it will never get better.  I'd rather he just keeps roiding up and mashing HR's vs even trying to become a better defender.  I've met Rickie and actually had a convo with him.  He's as dumb as he looks.

That being said, he leaps better than Descalso in every way sans defense.  Predator wins this category.


SS
Segura
Furcal

Segura, the big payoff in the Greinke shedding, won the Dominican Winter League batting title this past winter.  He's currently tearing it up in spring training as well.  He lacks power, but that's all he lacks.  He's young (23) so I'm sure there will be ups and downs, but the upside is very high.

Furcal is old, injury prone, and he only hits HR's against the Brewers at Miller Park.

Segura wins this battle

3B
Freese
Ramirez

ARAM lead all of MLB with 50 doubles last year.  He finished 10th in wOBA among everyone, smacked 27 bombs.  He's old and slow but he can hit.  Lathargic at 3B but his bat more than makes up for it.  His year by year numbers are always strong.

Freese, another fragile woman in your lineup, is pretty solid himself.  He's no ARAM though.  Better defender but that's it.  ARAM wins this battle.

LF
Braun
Holliday

Both all stars.  Both mashers.  Both roiderz.  Braun is god though.  Braun has actually gotten better on defense (he used to be embarrassingly bad).  No offense to Holliday, a great player, but Braun is Braun and wins this.  Man I hope he doesn't get suspended. 


CF
GoGo
Beltran

How bout that GoGo last year hey?  Moronic piece of **** actually lived up to his draft day hype a bit.  Mashing HR's, stealing bags.  He was always a stud in the field.  He's 27, and is now even taking walks in spring training.  In a contract year too.  This dude could be great.

Beltran - hey, look, another injury prone muppet.  Old guy to boot.  To be serious, it's tough to rip on him after his first half of the season last year.  He was putting up MVP numbers.  Then his age caught up to him and he sucked the 2nd half of the year.  GoGo wins this competition hands down.  He's going to 5 took his way right out of Milwaukee.  Could be a Cardinal in 2014 since you guys don't mind overpaying people.


RF
Jon Jay
Ichiro Suzuki


Aoki had better batting numbers than Harper (sans HR's), yet Harper got the ROTY cause he's Bryce Harper, ubber over-hype machine.  Aoki was a great find for the Brewers.  True leadoff hitter, can field, can run.  He fits the japanese baseball player stereotype to a tee.  Sadly he's a FA after this year and he'll probably get a nice paycheck from a bigger money team.  He had sick stats last year and didn't start regular till after douchebag Gamel got hurt. 

Jon Jay is a nice RF.  He'll hit for a .300 avg and steal 20 bags.  This is closer than the other races, but Aoki has this by a tad.  He has a little more pop and will run for 40 bags now that he's full time.  The guy hits lots of doubles in Miller Park too.  Had 37 last year in his limited time.


C
Lucroy
Neck tat

Both guys had great years last year.  Lucroy had a .378 wOBA, Yaddy a .375.  Lucroy had a .881 OPS and Yaddy had a .874OPS.  Lucroy unfortunately got drunk one night before an off day and broke his hand, causing him to miss 2 months.  What was cool was Maldanado came up and was surprisingly good.  Helped the team shed Kotteras.

You guys will say that Yaddy calls a better game than Lucroy and throws out more runners.  Is there anyway to prove that?  Brewers pitching broke the MLB record last year in strike outs.  Maybe Lucroy had something to do as he called a lot of those games?  These two are going to be real close this year.  Yaddy had his best year ever last year.  No way he repeats it.  He's also a chubby little douchbag, but I won't hold that against him.  Ya I will.


I'll break down pitching in another post.  Took long enough to break down the lineup in this post.  As you can see, the Brewers have the Cards as far as the batting lineup goes handedly.  Buster Olney wasn't kidding when he said the Brewers lineup is 2nd to only the Angels sick set of mashers.

I know you guys are going to refute everything I said.  That's fine.  Just please use stats are decent logic when doing so.  "JON JAY IS A BETTER BASEBALL PLAYER THAN AOKI BECAUSE HE'S BETTER" is not an argument.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 8:54 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


OK, I'll bite:

First of all, you've got Jay and Beltran in the wrong positions.  Jay's the CF, Beltran's the RF.

Second, I'm not aware of any 'roiding allegations made against Holliday.  Braun, OTOH, we all know about.

Third, it's funny that you call Freese out for his injuries the very day of this article about Ramirez' being out for an "extended time" with a bad knee:

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.c...il&c_id=mil

Fourth, while Lucroy isn't a bad catcher, Molina is possibly the best in MLB - the only one in Yadi territory is Posey.

Finally, I notice that you don't mention the Brewers' pitching staff, which is almost universally regarded as the Brew Crew's weak point this season, and I'm not even sure that signing Lohse would help, given your ballpark.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 9:02 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


Matt Holliday has called for a player who fails his first drug test to sit out an entire 162-game season. For a second offense, he is in favor of the punishment being a lifetime suspension – with the possibility to apply for reinstatement after two years.

link to details

Slappy, no one here with any sense is going to take anything you say with any seriousness.
Brian Walton
The Cardinal Nation and The Cardinal Nation blog
Follow both Brian and TCN on Twitter

Last edited 3/6/2013 9:05 AM by Domeboys

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Posted: 3/6/2013 9:04 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



slappzilla wrote:
I know you guys are going to refute everything I said.  That's fine.  Just please use stats are decent logic when doing so.  "JON JAY IS A BETTER BASEBALL PLAYER THAN AOKI BECAUSE HE'S BETTER" is not an argument.
So you don't have to use stats and logic to support your arguments but we do?
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Posted: 3/6/2013 9:04 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



Domeboys wrote: Matt Holliday has called for a player who fails his first drug test to sit out an entire 162-game season. For a second offense, he is in favor of the punishment being a lifetime suspension – with the possibility to apply for reinstatement after two years.

link to details

Brian, we all know that this is a smokescreen to cover up his use of PEDs.  After all, Slappy has said he uses, so he must use.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 9:06 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 




DMENS
- How exactly did I not use stats and logic when I broke down each position?  Feel free to prove me wrong on anything I said.



Jmodene1 wrote: OK, I'll bite:

First of all, you've got Jay and Beltran in the wrong positions.  Jay's the CF, Beltran's the RF.

Second, I'm not aware of any 'roiding allegations made against Holliday.  Braun, OTOH, we all know about.

Third, it's funny that you call Freese out for his injuries the very day of this article about Ramirez' being out for an "extended time" with a bad knee:

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.c...il&c_id=mil

Fourth, while Lucroy isn't a bad catcher, Molina is possibly the best in MLB - the only one in Yadi territory is Posey.

Finally, I notice that you don't mention the Brewers' pitching staff, which is almost universally regarded as the Brew Crew's weak point this season, and I'm not even sure that signing Lohse would help, given your ballpark.
My bad. I just looked at the depth chart that CBS provided. I sort of thought Beltran was RF.

The Holliday allegation was an inside joke. funny how THAT caught your attention.

Extended time? quote from your link: "Even if he misses two weeks, Ramirez will have about two weeks of Spring Training games to get ready for the Brewers' April 1 season opener."

So yaddy is better because yaddy is better? Where is your argument? Did you not read what I said as far as refuting anything?

Again...did you even read my post? I said I would break down the pitching another day.

Last edited 3/6/2013 9:08 AM by slappzilla

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Posted: 3/6/2013 9:47 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



slappzilla wrote:

DMENS
- How exactly did I not use stats and logic when I broke down each position?  Feel free to prove me wrong on anything I said.
If vaguely talking about mashing and injuries counts as proper use of statistics, then maybe I'm wrong. But last I checked saying someone can mash or bag bases better than another isn't quite a compelling argument. Your best, and maybe only attempt to actually use statistics was on the Molina and Luco comparison, but the evidence presented has already been proved severely flawed on this forum in other threads. You dug it back up again anyway because you have no other case to make.

By the way, I sent this thread to a friend of mine who is a diehard Brewers fan. Thought it would be worth a good laugh. He said he is completely embarrassed that you are a Brewers fan and he hopes that people here realize you're not representative of the whole. And that's me putting things nicely, considering I don't want to violate any rules of engagement for these wonderful forums.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 9:59 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


so because I didn't provide stats for the common sense examples.

Ok.  I didn't think I had to go into depth on everyone.  The Catchers I knew I had too cause of how close they are.  the post was long enough the way it was.  Had I put in the stats for each position it would have bored it out too much.

Tell me who you want me to prove better with stats and I will do so.

You're clearly making up the "my friend says your wrong" bit.  Nothing I said can be proven wrong.  I can back anything and everything up with stats or facts.  Feel free to tell your "friend" to challenge me on anything.  That goes for you too of course.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 10:05 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



slappzilla wrote: 

  Craig is made of glass more so than Hart.  If Craig stays healthy, then Craig is the better player.  We all know that won't happen though, so I will say they're equal.  Healthy vs Healthy Craig does get the slight nod.

2006 - torn patella tendon
2008 - lower back pain
2011-2012 - shattered kneecap

that is the only time Craig has missed with injury.  The back is the only injury that would have an outside chance of being a recurring problem.  However, since it hasn't been a problem in 4 years, I don't think that is a problem.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 10:17 AM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



slappzilla wrote: Let's start with the lineup, shall we?



3B
Freese
Ramirez

ARAM lead all of MLB with 50 doubles last year.  He finished 10th in wOBA among everyone, smacked 27 bombs.  He's old and slow but he can hit.  Lathargic at 3B but his bat more than makes up for it.  His year by year numbers are always strong.

Freese, another fragile woman in your lineup, is pretty solid himself.  He's no ARAM though.  Better defender but that's it.  ARAM wins this battle.


As long as you throw away 2010.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 10:27 AM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


^ he still had a .750OPS  still hit 25 bombs.  Was a down year though, you're right.  One out of how many though...

Are you serious in saying Craig isn't considered injury prone?

Let's see him get one full season under his belt and go from there.

He's always mashed. Just never been able to stay healthy in the bigs.

Last edited 3/6/2013 10:33 AM by slappzilla

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Posted: 3/6/2013 10:31 AM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


What do you define as injury prone? Is it someone who has a recurring problem? Someone who has a different injury every year? Does it have to be every year or every other year?
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Posted: 3/6/2013 10:36 AM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



slappzilla wrote: 
Let's see him get one full season under his belt and go from there.


Considering 2011 and 2012 were his only seasons to spend the whole year in the majors, it is hard to say what he will be.  Both of those seasons were affected by a freak accident to his kneecap when he slide into the concrete wall.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 10:42 AM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


Don't feed the trolls!!
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Posted: 3/6/2013 10:46 AM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



scadder21 wrote: Don't feed the trolls!!

It's not regular season, yet.  I haven't had a debate for too long now.  Slappy is good for a laugh or twenty.  I encourage anyone who doesn't like his arrogance about his team to not read this thread.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 11:06 AM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


Again, defense has no value.

21st Century postseason wins:
St. Louis(56),NYY(51),BOS(45),SFG(33),PHI(27),DET(25),LAA(21),TEX(18),ARI(16),LAD(14),TB-ATL-HOU-OAK(13),CHW(12),FLA(11),COL-CLE(8),MIL-MIN(6),CHC(6),NYM(6),SEA(4),PIT-BAL(3),CIN-WAS(2),SD(1),TOR-KC(0)
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Posted: 3/6/2013 11:54 AM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 


^ is that sarcasm?

Injury prone = multiple DL stints

Granted Craig's big league stay has been short.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 11:58 AM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



forsch31 wrote:
scadder21 wrote: Don't feed the trolls!!

It's not regular season, yet.  I haven't had a debate for too long now.  Slappy is good for a laugh or twenty.  I encourage anyone who doesn't like his arrogance about his team to not read this thread.
If he's going to come onto another teams board he should at least know about his own team......didn't Ramirez get hurt pretty bad? and ours Furcal being out most likely for the year.  Or the fact that Braun may miss part of the year if this Biogensis thing has legs.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 12:04 PM

RE: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



scadder21 wrote:
forsch31 wrote:
scadder21 wrote: Don't feed the trolls!!

It's not regular season, yet.  I haven't had a debate for too long now.  Slappy is good for a laugh or twenty.  I encourage anyone who doesn't like his arrogance about his team to not read this thread.
If he's going to come onto another teams board he should at least know about his own team......didn't Ramirez get hurt pretty bad? and ours Furcal being out most likely for the year.  Or the fact that Braun may miss part of the year if this Biogensis thing has legs.

That is what makes it entertaining.
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Posted: 3/6/2013 1:20 PM

Re: 2013 Brewers > 2013 Cardinals 



Jmodene1 wrote: Finally, I notice that you don't mention the Brewers' pitching staff, which is almost universally regarded as the Brew Crew's weak point this season, and I'm not even sure that signing Lohse would help, given your ballpark.
Despite having the third most runs scored in baseball, the Brewers finished 14 games out of first place and 5 games out of the second wild card spot. They ranked in the bottom third of the majority of pitching categories - which would explain why they spent the fall watching at home while the Cardinals got within 1 game of the World Series (for a second straight year). If slappy wants to take comparisons for the sake of superiority, she should look at the whole picture.
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