DMENS wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Mo reiterated again this morning that he isn't bringing in any pitchers. From Jenifer Langosch of MLB.com on twitter:

"To those still holding out hope that Kyle Lohse returns: Stop now. #STLCards GM Mozeliak says he doesn't expect the team to add a starter."

Usually when Mo is so adamant about something it is for a good reason. There's more to Lohse they see that they don't like then just the cost of a contract and an already crowded rotation.

cardinalnationhouston wrote:

DMENS wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Mo reiterated again this morning that he isn't bringing in any pitchers. From Jenifer Langosch of MLB.com on twitter:

"To those still holding out hope that Kyle Lohse returns: Stop now. #STLCards GM Mozeliak says he doesn't expect the team to add a starter."

Usually when Mo is so adamant about something it is for a good reason. There's more to Lohse they see that they don't like then just the cost of a contract and an already crowded rotation.

This is a really good point. There has to be more to it considering the way they have just flat out shot down any Lohse talk at all. I think Kyle actually knew they had no intention of bringing him back as far back as last season. I know a lot of folks are not crazy about how he handles adversity and i think there IS some smoke there. He is basically a 7 inning guy that doesn't do it sexy (low K rate) and has Boras as an agent but still how can there be no interest from St.Louis? He has shown that he is a solid starter in the 3 healthy years out of a total of 5 he was here.

PadsFS wrote:

cardinalnationhouston wrote:

DMENS wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Mo reiterated again this morning that he isn't bringing in any pitchers. From Jenifer Langosch of MLB.com on twitter:

"To those still holding out hope that Kyle Lohse returns: Stop now. #STLCards GM Mozeliak says he doesn't expect the team to add a starter."

Usually when Mo is so adamant about something it is for a good reason. There's more to Lohse they see that they don't like then just the cost of a contract and an already crowded rotation.

This is a really good point. There has to be more to it considering the way they have just flat out shot down any Lohse talk at all. I think Kyle actually knew they had no intention of bringing him back as far back as last season. I know a lot of folks are not crazy about how he handles adversity and i think there IS some smoke there. He is basically a 7 inning guy that doesn't do it sexy (low K rate) and has Boras as an agent but still how can there be no interest from St.Louis? He has shown that he is a solid starter in the 3 healthy years out of a total of 5 he was here.

scadder21 wrote: I think the main thing going against Lohse is Boras and the new draft pick rules. He was one of the most effective starters in baseball over the totality of the last 2 years. If Lohse is willing to take a 1 or 2 year deal I wish the Cardinals would sign him because you never can have too much pitching. I think he's over STL now though because honestly it doesn't seem like his accomplishments are being respected.

stlcards5129 wrote:

PadsFS wrote:

cardinalnationhouston wrote:

DMENS wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Mo reiterated again this morning that he isn't bringing in any pitchers. From Jenifer Langosch of MLB.com on twitter:

"To those still holding out hope that Kyle Lohse returns: Stop now. #STLCards GM Mozeliak says he doesn't expect the team to add a starter."

Usually when Mo is so adamant about something it is for a good reason. There's more to Lohse they see that they don't like then just the cost of a contract and an already crowded rotation.

This is a really good point. There has to be more to it considering the way they have just flat out shot down any Lohse talk at all. I think Kyle actually knew they had no intention of bringing him back as far back as last season. I know a lot of folks are not crazy about how he handles adversity and i think there IS some smoke there. He is basically a 7 inning guy that doesn't do it sexy (low K rate) and has Boras as an agent but still how can there be no interest from St.Louis? He has shown that he is a solid starter in the 3 healthy years out of a total of 5 he was here.

Except in 2011, when he made 30 starts and averaged 6 innings per game. Funny Carpenter averaged 7 innings per start that year. Funny you bring up IPs, I thought they don't matter.

Domeboys wrote:

scadder21 wrote: I think the main thing going against Lohse is Boras and the new draft pick rules. He was one of the most effective starters in baseball over the totality of the last 2 years. If Lohse is willing to take a 1 or 2 year deal I wish the Cardinals would sign him because you never can have too much pitching. I think he's over STL now though because honestly it doesn't seem like his accomplishments are being respected.

Exactly what has the organization done to disrespect Lohse? Not bowed to Scott Boras? They respected Lohse to the tune of $41 million over the last four years. I don't think because they decided to sign Westbrook instead (less money and fewer years) and because they have young arms to take his place that they don't respect Lohse. Business decisions have to be made in baseball and for what it is worth, I both understand this decision completely and agree with it.

cardinalnationhouston wrote:

stlcards5129 wrote:

PadsFS wrote:

cardinalnationhouston wrote:

DMENS wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Mo reiterated again this morning that he isn't bringing in any pitchers. From Jenifer Langosch of MLB.com on twitter:

"To those still holding out hope that Kyle Lohse returns: Stop now. #STLCards GM Mozeliak says he doesn't expect the team to add a starter."

Usually when Mo is so adamant about something it is for a good reason. There's more to Lohse they see that they don't like then just the cost of a contract and an already crowded rotation.

This is a really good point. There has to be more to it considering the way they have just flat out shot down any Lohse talk at all. I think Kyle actually knew they had no intention of bringing him back as far back as last season. I know a lot of folks are not crazy about how he handles adversity and i think there IS some smoke there. He is basically a 7 inning guy that doesn't do it sexy (low K rate) and has Boras as an agent but still how can there be no interest from St.Louis? He has shown that he is a solid starter in the 3 healthy years out of a total of 5 he was here.

Except in 2011, when he made 30 starts and averaged 6 innings per game. Funny Carpenter averaged 7 innings per start that year. Funny you bring up IPs, I thought they don't matter.

What amazes me is that you get every one of my posts wrong. This cannot be an accident. Never said IP did not matter, in fact i said they matter more now than they did in the past. I said your metrics matter very little. You should really take some kind of reading comp class. Maybe it is just my posts you cannot seem to grasp. Also how many guys out there are as good as Carp? This amounts to Carp is better therefore Lohse is a mediocre pitcher.

PadsFS wrote:

cardinalnationhouston wrote:

stlcards5129 wrote:

PadsFS wrote:

cardinalnationhouston wrote:

DMENS wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Mo reiterated again this morning that he isn't bringing in any pitchers. From Jenifer Langosch of MLB.com on twitter:

"To those still holding out hope that Kyle Lohse returns: Stop now. #STLCards GM Mozeliak says he doesn't expect the team to add a starter."

Usually when Mo is so adamant about something it is for a good reason. There's more to Lohse they see that they don't like then just the cost of a contract and an already crowded rotation.

This is a really good point. There has to be more to it considering the way they have just flat out shot down any Lohse talk at all. I think Kyle actually knew they had no intention of bringing him back as far back as last season. I know a lot of folks are not crazy about how he handles adversity and i think there IS some smoke there. He is basically a 7 inning guy that doesn't do it sexy (low K rate) and has Boras as an agent but still how can there be no interest from St.Louis? He has shown that he is a solid starter in the 3 healthy years out of a total of 5 he was here.

Except in 2011, when he made 30 starts and averaged 6 innings per game. Funny Carpenter averaged 7 innings per start that year. Funny you bring up IPs, I thought they don't matter.

What amazes me is that you get every one of my posts wrong. This cannot be an accident. Never said IP did not matter, in fact i said they matter more now than they did in the past. I said your metrics matter very little. You should really take some kind of reading comp class. Maybe it is just my posts you cannot seem to grasp. Also how many guys out there are as good as Carp? This amounts to Carp is better therefore Lohse is a mediocre pitcher.

It's amazing that you say he got the post wrong when you literally are quoted as saying he is a 7 inning per start pitcher when in fact he is not.  He is a six inning per start pitcher and that is EXACTLY what we both responded about.

cardinalnationhouston wrote:
What amazes me is that you get every one of my posts wrong.

This was actually the first time...and it was on purpose. Mostly because you completely shot down my IP argument on the FA thread and then start talking about Kyle's innings per game as a positive. 

This cannot be an accident.

It wasn't.

Never said IP did not matter

I know, you said .06 points of ERA were more valuable than 49 IPs. 

in fact i said they matter more now than they did in the past.

You did.

I said your metrics matter very little.

I know you did. It's funny though, my personal opinion is that you should have to understand something in order to have an opinion, but I guess your entitled to your opinion no matter how ignorant it may be.

You should really take some kind of reading comp class.

C'mon man reading comprehension is my slight. Get your own.

Maybe it is just my posts you cannot seem to grasp.

Nah, I grasp them. 

Also how many guys out there are as good as Carp?

From '04 to '12? Probably about 5 or 6 pitchers. He's the dominant workhorse, top of the rotation pitcher who pitches many innings and gets tons of outs. 

This amounts to Carp is better therefore Lohse is a mediocre pitcher.

I don't see what Carp has to do with Lohse, but my whole point with Lohse being mediocre (which you've missed...again) is in Lohse's ERA+ numbers (Career 97, Cards career 101, that '12 outlier season was great though 134! Top 10 in the league)

You've misrepresented my position on Lohse from the start, but it's expected at this point. 

stlcards5129 wrote:

cardinalnationhouston wrote:
What amazes me is that you get every one of my posts wrong.

This was actually the first time...and it was on purpose. Mostly because you completely shot down my IP argument on the FA thread and then start talking about Kyle's innings per game as a positive. 

This cannot be an accident.

It wasn't.

Never said IP did not matter

I know, you said .06 points of ERA were more valuable than 49 IPs. 

in fact i said they matter more now than they did in the past.

You did.

I said your metrics matter very little.

I know you did. It's funny though, my personal opinion is that you should have to understand something in order to have an opinion, but I guess your entitled to your opinion no matter how ignorant it may be.

You should really take some kind of reading comp class.

C'mon man reading comprehension is my slight. Get your own.

Maybe it is just my posts you cannot seem to grasp.

Nah, I grasp them. 

Also how many guys out there are as good as Carp?

From '04 to '12? Probably about 5 or 6 pitchers. He's the dominant workhorse, top of the rotation pitcher who pitches many innings and gets tons of outs. 

This amounts to Carp is better therefore Lohse is a mediocre pitcher.

I don't see what Carp has to do with Lohse, but my whole point with Lohse being mediocre (which you've missed...again) is in Lohse's ERA+ numbers (Career 97, Cards career 101, that '12 outlier season was great though 134! Top 10 in the league)

You've misrepresented my position on Lohse from the start, but it's expected at this point. 

cardinalnationhouston wrote:

Actually my post is pretty clear as to what he got wrong. if you jump in to help your lil buddy you should at least read the post first. Maybe you two can get your stories straight in class together. OK, Lohse averages 6 and not 7 is that what makes him mediocre or is it his fly ball rate? Some people here never liked the length of extension Cards gave to Lohse but it is a good thing it was for four years. They were given a fantastic year of pitching by Kyle Lohse whether you guys like it or not. Get over it! The guy pitched well when healthy in St.Louis and neither your bias or your metrics can change that.

Jmodene1 wrote:
Anyway, point being - Lohse may only average 6 to 6 1/3 IP per start, but these days, that's solid - maybe not ace-like, but solid.

DMENS wrote:

Jmodene1 wrote:
Anyway, point being - Lohse may only average 6 to 6 1/3 IP per start, but these days, that's solid - maybe not ace-like, but solid.

Especially considering what our bullpen was able to do last year (for part of the year). Starters didn't really have to go that deep. Six innings of solid baseball was all we needed. That doesn't necessarily make Lohse a horse, but it does mean he was great for what we needed him to do.