If we can get Lohse to take a 2 year deal, with perhaps a club option on the 3rd, I think we should do it given the situation with Carpenter and Garcia.

But at 3 years guaranteed, I flip over to where it would be too risky and think we should look within and outside the organization to bolster the rotation.

GScottAR wrote: Another option would be to trade for Bud Norris. It probably wouldn't take much to get him.

He wouldnt have the Cards to pitch against for 3 of his W's a year now..

We don't need Lohse or to trade for Bud Norris.  We can go with what we have.

Getting Profar is a pipe dream.  It ain't happening.

Somebody's going to get either Profar or Andrus, just like somebody's going to get one of our primo starting pitchers and somebody's going to get Adams. You can't suppress a player who belongs at the major league level. Brian reported that Mozeliak said at the Winter Warm-up that Adams has nothing to prove at triple A. Based on what they did last Fall, the same may hold true for Miller, Kelly, and Rosenthal.

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--- mudville wrote:

Somebody's going to get either Profar or Andrus, just like somebody's going to get one of our primo starting pitchers and somebody's going to get Adams. You can't suppress a player who belongs at the major league level. Brian reported that Mozeliak said at the Winter Warm-up that Adams has nothing to prove at triple A. Based on what they did last Fall, the same may hold true for Miller, Kelly, and Rosenthal.

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I see adams going way before any arm. Carpenter can always play 1b should craig go down. While i would certainly feel more comfortable with another pitcher who is mlb proveni dont think its going to happen unless jaime has a poor spring. Would it benefit milled to spend more time in the pen? Possibly...but its not like hes a pup anymore prospect wise...time for baptism by fire..

Also, Martinez and Wacha are up and coming, and Swagerty and Blair may not be too far behind.

We can always come up with a scenario where nobody gets traded. But, to me, that seems unlikely because the prospects we have are putting too much pressure on Mozeliak and the front office.

Here is a take that has me scratching my head. A writer from the Belleville paper posting on Yahoo says Carp's injury means the Cards have to sign Wainwright.

I don't get the connection at all. Waino is already under contract for this season. Both their contracts end after this year. The two are at different points in their careers. I doubt few expected Carp to be a significant factor in 2014 if he was back at all, anyway.

Not that the team shouldn't be trying to sign Waino. It is just I don't see Carp apparently being done having anything to do with it.

Other opinions?

Domeboys wrote: Here is a take that has me scratching my head. A writer from the Belleville paper posting on Yahoo says Carp's injury means the Cards have to sign Wainwright.

I don't get the connection at all. Waino is already under contract for this season. Both their contracts end after this year. The two are at different points in their careers. I doubt few expected Carp to be a significant factor in 2014 if he was back at all, anyway.

Not that the team shouldn't be trying to sign Waino. It is just I don't see Carp apparently being done having anything to do with it.

Other opinions?

He also has an article on his blog arguing that the Carp injury means we should sign Lohse.  Among other things, he suggests a one year deal with the agreement the Cards would not tender a contract so he would not be hampered by a compensation pick in 2014.

He also suggests that Boras will be telling GMs how hot the Cards are on Lohse now, so as to create some urgency.

Point #1 assumes Lohse would pitch well enough to again justify a qualifying offer next fall. It also means the Cards would give up a sure comp pick this year as well as the chance to perhaps get it next year instead. Point #2 may be accurate, but given the low level of interest to date, other GMs are likely to say "good luck."

I still don't see Lohse coming back.

I don't see it either, especially since they've given his #26 to Trevor Rosenthal.

Domeboys wrote: Here is a take that has me scratching my head. A writer from the Belleville paper posting on Yahoo says Carp's injury means the Cards have to sign Wainwright.

I don't get the connection at all. Waino is already under contract for this season. Both their contracts end after this year. The two are at different points in their careers. I doubt few expected Carp to be a significant factor in 2014 if he was back at all, anyway.

Not that the team shouldn't be trying to sign Waino. It is just I don't see Carp apparently being done having anything to do with it.

Other opinions?

The only connection I see is the leadership void and the lack of an ace if Waino isn't signed.

crdswmn wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Here is a take that has me scratching my head. A writer from the Belleville paper posting on Yahoo says Carp's injury means the Cards have to sign Wainwright.

I don't get the connection at all. Waino is already under contract for this season. Both their contracts end after this year. The two are at different points in their careers. I doubt few expected Carp to be a significant factor in 2014 if he was back at all, anyway.

Not that the team shouldn't be trying to sign Waino. It is just I don't see Carp apparently being done having anything to do with it.

Other opinions?

The only connection I see is the leadership void and the lack of an ace if Waino isn't signed.

That requires one to assume that Carp would have been resigned and still been an ace in 2014.

Domeboys wrote:

crdswmn wrote:

Domeboys wrote: Here is a take that has me scratching my head. A writer from the Belleville paper posting on Yahoo says Carp's injury means the Cards have to sign Wainwright.

I don't get the connection at all. Waino is already under contract for this season. Both their contracts end after this year. The two are at different points in their careers. I doubt few expected Carp to be a significant factor in 2014 if he was back at all, anyway.

Not that the team shouldn't be trying to sign Waino. It is just I don't see Carp apparently being done having anything to do with it.

Other opinions?

The only connection I see is the leadership void and the lack of an ace if Waino isn't signed.

That requires one to assume that Carp would have been resigned and still been an ace in 2014.

I meant, surety of no Carp ever again means more need for Waino beyond 2013.  Had Carp pitched well in 2013 and been re-signed, need for Waino is less.  Don't have one, must have the other.

To me it means less need for waino as we will have one more young pitcher with significant experience going into 2014 than we would have had.

Yes, but every staff needs at least one veteran leader on it.  Rosenthal, Miller, Martinez, Wacha, et al may have tremendous talent but you still need at least one veteran - and it would be preferable if that veteran is an ace.  Hence the need to keep Wainwright, who ought to be a lifetime Cardinal anyway like Yadi hopefully will also be.

If there's one thing I'm sick of in this modern game of baseball, it's the tendency to not hold on to your superstar players.

Jmodene1 wrote: Yes, but every staff needs at least one veteran leader on it.  Rosenthal, Miller, Martinez, Wacha, et al may have tremendous talent but you still need at least one veteran - and it would be preferable if that veteran is an ace.  Hence the need to keep Wainwright, who ought to be a lifetime Cardinal anyway like Yadi hopefully will also be.

If there's one thing I'm sick of in this modern game of baseball, it's the tendency to not hold on to your superstar players.

Amen.  I'm an old school fan, and the attitude that everyone is fungible and young and cheap is always better is a load of crap.  I'm heartily sick of it.

I hope I am not being misunderstood. I am in favor of trying to sign Waino, too, at just the same priority last week as this. Letting Waino walk because they expected Carp could be an ace in 2014 and beyond at age 38+, would be crazy. My point is that they need Waino over the longer haul just as much no matter what Carp did or didn't do as he is a short-termer. That did not change with this week's announcement - except that the length of his short-term was clarified.

Hopefully, Wainy will go on to be our war horse like Carp, except with less down time. Carp gave us six great years, but we will have paid him for 10.

If Garcia also doesn't answer this year, it will be $18M in payroll down the tube for injured pitchers this year. That's a chunk. It makes all those cheap young healthy guys look pretty good.

crdswmn wrote:

Jmodene1 wrote: Yes, but every staff needs at least one veteran leader on it.  Rosenthal, Miller, Martinez, Wacha, et al may have tremendous talent but you still need at least one veteran - and it would be preferable if that veteran is an ace.  Hence the need to keep Wainwright, who ought to be a lifetime Cardinal anyway like Yadi hopefully will also be.

If there's one thing I'm sick of in this modern game of baseball, it's the tendency to not hold on to your superstar players.

Amen.  I'm an old school fan, and the attitude that everyone is fungible and young and cheap is always better is a load of crap.  I'm heartily sick of it.

I could not agree more. When a Pujols leaves St.Louis or Griffey leaves Seattle (i know it is an old reference but it makes a point) i think it harms the face of the game as a whole. I would caution people to hold back on presenting Miller and Rosie any Cy Young awards just yet. True the potential is there for both pitchers to be Ace like and i am not complaining but it does not always work out for every top prospect. Anyone that thinks losing Carpenter, Lohse and likely Garcia is not a kick to the groin then they are smoking something. If it is Waino, Westy and then a group of kids in the rotation Cards will be lucky to finish .500 Imo. In fact it may not be a bad idea to break camp with Tavares, Wong and Adams and get the next generation of Cards some experience by fire. Then again we don't want to hurt their development so maybe they start at AAA and then come up only after showing some success at that level. I am just not sure about that. I really don't think you can lose 3 of your 4 top starters and still compete. Remember we won't have Nixon errrr Houston to kick around anymore.

I pulled together all my Carpenter-related thoughts in one blog post:

"Chris Carpenter overreaction reaction"