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RE: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
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Posted: 2/7/2013 12:59 PM
RE: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Jim Bowden is among those speculating that the Mets and the Union may be able to negotiate protecting NY's #11 pick to sign Bourn.
Last edited 2/7/2013 1:00 PM by Domeboys
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Posted: 2/8/2013 7:21 AM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Despite being one of teams that have a protected draft pick (#7), the Red Sox aren't interested in Lohse. They may have been earlier, but signed a non-comp pick pitcher in Ryan Dempster instead. Note the poll at the bottom of the page. 65% of voters, likely mostly made up of Red Sox fans, think Lohse is not worth the cost. |
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Posted: 2/9/2013 8:16 AM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
imo, the new system is fairer than the previous systems. most free agents do not have the draft pick albatross attached to them. and for super stars, it doesn't prevent their signings.
the system seems to hurt guys just like lohse, namely, guys that aren't as good as their agent portrays them to be. it hurts the good, not great free agents. i feel bad for lohse if he thought boras was going to get him a 4yr $60 contract. it's not happening, and it was never going to happen.
in the end though, it's tough to feel too sorry for a guy that turned down $13 mil + guaranteed.
Last edited 2/9/2013 8:17 AM by duckymedwick7
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Posted: 2/9/2013 1:24 PM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
duckymedwick7 wrote:imo, the new system is fairer than the previous systems. most free agents do not have the draft pick albatross attached to them. and for super stars, it doesn't prevent their signings.
the system seems to hurt guys just like lohse, namely, guys that aren't as good as their agent portrays them to be. it hurts the good, not great free agents. i feel bad for lohse if he thought boras was going to get him a 4yr $60 contract. it's not happening, and it was never going to happen.
in the end though, it's tough to feel too sorry for a guy that turned down $13 mil + guaranteed. Fair points, but then you look at the contract a guy like Edwin Jackson got and wonder why he gets to cash in and Lohse, who is still a better pitcher, is on the outside looking in. |
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Posted: 2/9/2013 1:47 PM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
agreed, jerry. i'm guessing that going forward, there will be a bourn and lohse just about every year. if you're that guy then the system is flawed. but if you're the jackson, nick swisher, etc who benefited by not being tagged with the attached pick, as in years past, i'm guessing you think the system is just great.
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Posted: 2/9/2013 3:16 PM
RE: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Swisher was one of the qualifying free agents and I bet he still thinks the system is just fine. Four years, $56 million with an easy vesting option to make it five years, $70 million.
If the Mets and Bourn can work out the details, especially protecting the 11th pick in the draft, Lohse will be the last man standing.
Last edited 2/9/2013 3:21 PM by Domeboys
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Posted: 2/9/2013 9:17 PM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Would the Mets consider signing Kyle Lohse?
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Posted: 2/9/2013 10:01 PM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
619illinibooyah wrote: Would the Mets consider signing Kyle Lohse? Dunno, but you can bet that Boras has floated a package deal with Bourn.
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Posted: 2/11/2013 6:36 AM
Lohse
Can we re-sign this guy or what? I really hope Mo finds a way. I love our gaggle of great young arms as much as anybody, but Kyle is an established effective MLB pitcher. A #1 or #2 starter, depending on the team.
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Posted: 2/11/2013 7:09 AM
Re: Lohse
Brosky wrote: Can we re-sign this guy or what? I really hope Mo finds a way. I love our gaggle of great young arms as much as anybody, but Kyle is an established effective MLB pitcher. A #1 or #2 starter, depending on the team. As noted, it's doubtful - they've already given Lohse's number to Trevor Rosenthal, so clearly the Cards have no intention of bringing Lohse back. |
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Posted: 2/11/2013 12:43 PM
Re: Lohse
Brosky wrote: Can we re-sign this guy or what? I really hope Mo finds a way. I love our gaggle of great young arms as much as anybody, but Kyle is an established effective MLB pitcher. A #1 or #2 starter, depending on the team. Proved it in the playoffs too! |
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Posted: 2/11/2013 1:54 PM
Re: Lohse
PadsFS wrote:
Brosky wrote: Can we re-sign this guy or what? I really hope Mo finds a way. I love our gaggle of great young arms as much as anybody, but Kyle is an established effective MLB pitcher. A #1 or #2 starter, depending on the team.
Proved it in the playoffs too! Yes, he did almost as well as Justin Verlander against the Giants. |
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Posted: 2/11/2013 2:16 PM
RE: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Domeboys wrote: Jim Bowden is among those speculating that the Mets and the Union may be able to negotiate protecting NY's #11 pick to sign Bourn. Then why not the 13th pick? Why have any standards at all? Im sure there are teams who would have liked to kick the tires on several FAs but planned in advance not to for this very reason. |
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Posted: 2/11/2013 2:43 PM
RE: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Not sure if you have read the background, but there is question because one of the earlier picks was vacated. The debate then being whether the intent of the new rule was to protect the 10 worst teams or the top 10 picks.
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Posted: 2/11/2013 2:44 PM
RE: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
ok gotcha  |
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Posted: 2/11/2013 3:00 PM
Re: Lohse
Jmodene1 wrote:
PadsFS wrote:
Brosky wrote: Can we re-sign this guy or what? I really hope Mo finds a way. I love our gaggle of great young arms as much as anybody, but Kyle is an established effective MLB pitcher. A #1 or #2 starter, depending on the team.
Proved it in the playoffs too! Yes, he did almost as well as Justin Verlander against the Giants. Verlander was actually dominate in the playoffs with the exception of the 4 innings he pitched against the Giants. Lohse, wasn't. 4 innings of Verlander is a poor comparison/analogy/use of sarcasm anyway he's actually a #1 starter, he's actually the most dominate pitcher in the bigs. Lohse is far, far from that. If Lohse was actually a #1 or even a #2 starter he'd be signed by now. The reality is that he's an aging #3 or #4 starter and GMs (rightfully) don't want to forfeit a first round pick for a middle of the pack innings eater. |
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Posted: 2/11/2013 3:17 PM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Obviously, Lohse is no Verlander - but he's hardly Bud Norris, either. Lohse is what he is, a solid, effective starter. And I really don't know why people dislike him so much. I guess now that home runs are no longer the "in" thing, that chicks now dig the strikeout.
Personally, if the salaries were equal, I'd rather have Lohse than Lynn.
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Posted: 2/11/2013 3:30 PM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Jmodene1 wrote: Obviously, Lohse is no Verlander - but he's hardly Bud Norris, either. Lohse is what he is, a solid, effective starter. And I really don't know why people dislike him so much. I guess now that home runs are no longer the "in" thing, that chicks now dig the strikeout.
Personally, if the salaries were equal, I'd rather have Lohse than Lynn. I don't get it either. Lohse was Cards best starter the last two years and had a very good year he got the extension in. The other two years he was injured. Somewhat freakish injuries too. Many here did not like the extension and will never admit that Kyle pitched well here. Funny that these are two of the guys that flip out when i say Holliday sucks in the playoffs. The numbers back it up too and in a big way. He has been atrocious but they act like it is a non issue. Jump on Lohse over a couple of bad starts though. 
GO CARDS!
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Posted: 2/11/2013 4:51 PM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
Jmodene1 wrote: Obviously, Lohse is no Verlander - but he's hardly Bud Norris, either. Lohse is what he is, a solid, effective starter. And I really don't know why people dislike him so much. I guess now that home runs are no longer the "in" thing, that chicks now dig the strikeout.
Personally, if the salaries were equal, I'd rather have Lohse than Lynn. I don't dislike him I'm just not going to call him a #1 or #2 starter. I don't see how that means I dislike him. |
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Posted: 2/11/2013 5:08 PM
Re: The end of free agency as we know it? (Bourn, Lohse, etc.)
cardinalnationhouston wrote:
Jmodene1 wrote: Obviously, Lohse is no Verlander - but he's hardly Bud Norris, either. Lohse is what he is, a solid, effective starter. And I really don't know why people dislike him so much. I guess now that home runs are no longer the "in" thing, that chicks now dig the strikeout.
Personally, if the salaries were equal, I'd rather have Lohse than Lynn. I don't get it either. Lohse was Cards best starter the last two years and had a very good year he got the extension in. The other two years he was injured. Somewhat freakish injuries too. Many here did not like the extension and will never admit that Kyle pitched well here. Funny that these are two of the guys that flip out when i say Holliday sucks in the playoffs. The numbers back it up too and in a big way. He has been atrocious but they act like it is a non issue. Jump on Lohse over a couple of bad starts though. Lohse was the Cards best pitcher in 2008, in 2009 he didn't pitch, in 2010 he was terrible in the 92 innings he pitched, in 2011 both Carpenter and Garcia were better and in 2012 Lohse was more or less the best pitcher (I still think Lynn and Wainwright looked better). So in the 5 years he was here he was the best pitcher twice. By default in 2008 when his only real competition was Braden Looper (Waino and Carp were both hurt). By default again in 2012 (Carp was hurt and Waino was coming off of TJ). What was my argument again?...oh yeah Lohse isn't a #1 or a #2, a career 118-109 pitcher with a 4.45 ERA, 5.65 K/9 and a 2.58 BB/9 isn't a #1 or a #2. I don't see why you want to keep bringing up Holliday  , I'm personally over it. But I'll take the guy with the .780 career postseason OPS  any day over the guy who is 2-5  with a 4.86 ERA  in his postseason career.     |
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