The middle infielder had a solid season with the bat at Double-A Springfield.

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Brian - Garcia is pretty far down the food chain there on your list. Do you not believe in his plate discipline, which is pretty great for a middle infielder?

Also, with the community grade of Ramsey as 23, he would have to be getting near the top 10 in both CC and your lists correct?  That's pretty telling. (don't give it away if you don't want, obviously)

Curtis also plays 2B, 3B, and LF primarily whereas Garcia plays SS. Do you think there is NO CHANCE Garcia stays at SS?

Curtis was 23 years old during his first go-around at AA as well.

I initially had Garcia higher on the page, but as I evaluated others, especially middle infielders, he was pushed downward. I look at him as a second baseman ultimately. Middle infielders I put ahead of him are Wong, Jackson, Kozma, Starlin and Breyvic. Even so, six middle infielders in my top 26 felt pretty aggressive.

Yes, Ramsey was much better ranked by both CC and me than the community. He is still a few days away.

Brian, a terminology question.  When you say someone is a "middle-infielder" do you mean he can legitimately play SS and 2B or.... that he plays either SS or 2B, but not both? 

Secondly, what value do you assign to a player that can legitimately play both SS and 2B?

Up until Greg Garcia was selected the #11 prospect by the community, hot on the heels of the big name group at the top, I am pretty sure I never heard of him. The top ranked middle infielder behind only 'it guy' Wong. And I had fancied myself a real Cards fan. All could do was hang my head in shame. But now Domeboys has lifted the rock I had taken refuge beneath by suggesting Garcia ranks mid twenties, and is buried beneath 5 other middle infielders on the prospect depth chart, a position of sufficient obscurity to allow me to reclaim my sense of worth as a fan.

The number of middle infielders we have to talk about is impressive.

PadsFS wrote: Curtis also plays 2B, 3B, and LF primarily whereas Garcia plays SS. Do you think there is NO CHANCE Garcia stays at SS?

Curtis was 23 years old during his first go-around at AA as well.

Their is a very good chance Garcia sticks as a shortstop years beyond. Although he's limited and projected to a utility role.

Curtis has been a very steady and consistent player in the minors, but at this point he's just an org guy.

blingboy wrote: Up until Greg Garcia was selected the #11 prospect by the community, hot on the heels of the big name group at the top, I am pretty sure I never heard of him. The top ranked middle infielder behind only 'it guy' Wong. And I had fancied myself a real Cards fan. All could do was hang my head in shame. But now Domeboys has lifted the rock I had taken refuge beneath by suggesting Garcia ranks mid twenties, and is buried beneath 5 other middle infielders on the prospect depth chart, a position of sufficient obscurity to allow me to reclaim my sense of worth as a fan.

The number of middle infielders we have to talk about is impressive.

Garcia's ranks:

Community Poll - #11
Brian Walton - #26
CC - #14
Future Redbirds - #11
Sickels - #13

skszyszowski wrote: Brian, a terminology question.  When you say someone is a "middle-infielder" do you mean he can legitimately play SS and 2B or.... that he plays either SS or 2B, but not both? 

Secondly, what value do you assign to a player that can legitimately play both SS and 2B?

In my previous comment, I used middle infielder as a generic term that includes all second basemen and shortstops, hence the six names I listed.

Since we are talking terminology, I will turn the tables and ask you a similar question. Who defines "legitimately" and does that mean the same in Double-A as in the majors?

Because Oscar Taveras played centerfield most of 2012, is he being projected as a "legitimate" major league centerfielder?

In my opinion, if one is not projected to be a major league starter, then the ability to play multiple positions is a plus. However, it is probably more of a real plus when the player gets there than a big swinger in my rankings of the player as a prospect.

For example, I did not give Ryan Jackson and Pete Kozma special consideration because they had exposure to second base this season (at least not consciously). My primary focus is on them as potential major league shortstops.

PadsFS wrote: Garcia's ranks:

Community Poll - #11
Brian Walton - #26
CC - #14
Future Redbirds - #11
Sickels - #13

Well, now I'm questioning my fanhood again.  I can't explain how he escaped my attention.  Next winter I will be better prepared.  Hopefully, he will be putting up numbers if opportunity knocks late in the season.

I'm not nearly as high on Kozma or Jackson as Domeboy and some others. I thought  the Community really jumped the gun on Kozma because they were so pleased with his year end performance. I hope I'm wrong, of course, and that he does better in the majors than at any time in his minor league career where his performance has been lacking.

Domeboys wrote:

skszyszowski wrote: Brian, a terminology question.  When you say someone is a "middle-infielder" do you mean he can legitimately play SS and 2B or.... that he plays either SS or 2B, but not both? 

Secondly, what value do you assign to a player that can legitimately play both SS and 2B?

In my previous comment, I used middle infielder as a generic term that includes all second basemen and shortstops, hence the six names I listed.

Since we are talking terminology, I will turn the tables and ask you a similar question. Who defines "legitimately" and does that mean the same in Double-A as in the majors?

Because Oscar Taveras played centerfield most of 2012, is he being projected as a "legitimate" major league centerfielder?

In my opinion, if one is not projected to be a major league starter, then the ability to play multiple positions is a plus. However, it is probably more of a real plus when the player gets there than a big swinger in my rankings of the player as a prospect.

For example, I did not give Ryan Jackson and Pete Kozma special consideration because they had exposure to second base this season (at least not consciously). My primary focus is on them as potential major league shortstops.

I think the actual results/stats define who is "legitimate". I also think that a player must prove himself "legitimate" at every level.

Oscar Taveras has played 56% of his games over his 4 seasons as a centerfielder.
He has spent 20% of his time in LF and the remaining 20% in RF. (Data does not include games when he was the DH.) In 2012 alone, Taveras spent 87% of his time in centerfield.  I believe these stats show that up and thru Double AA, Taveras has proven thus far that he is a legitimate centerfield candidate.

Greg Garcia has spent 59% of his 3 seasons at SS and 41% at 2B.  In 2010 and 2011 Greg Garcia played 73% of his games at 2B and 27% at SS.  In 2012 Garcia played 100% of his games at SS (DH games not included here.). To me, his results/stats indicate that Garcia is a legitimate SS/2B at less thru AA ball.  I believe he was told when drafted that his future in the ML would probably be as a utility player.  He seems to be tracking that projection thru 2012.  Where he plays and how much will be an interesting follow for me in 2013.

Garcia is sure-handed, like Descalso.  Being a reliable fielder is a big asset.  

Also like Descalso, Garcia is not speedy.  He is not flashy. 

If Garcia could serve as a backup SS, he should have value as a ML reserve.

If Garcia's ceiling is believed to be a utility player, how does that justify him being ranked in the top 10-15 in this system? (I did not have Garcia, Kozma or Jackson in my top 20.)

Why is Greg always labeled a ml utility player and not a regular. He has outperformed every other mid infielder mentioned including Wong ( and Wong cant play ss ) His numbers at the same or younger age are better than either kozma or Jackson. He lead the Texas league in assists and double plays as a shortstop. He had on obp over 400 and ops over 800. He scored 80 runs hit 10 homers (and 2 more in the playoffs) drove in 50 runs. All this at 22 years of age ( he didn't turn 23 until August). I don't understand what more does he need to do?
Lets give him the support he deserves.

Great post by RedBirdFive

I agree that solid points were made about the present. However, I did not see anyone showing non-support. The very idea of rankings and resulting discussion is to thoughtfully consider the relative merits and attempt to forecast the futures of players. By definition, not everyone is going to see it the same way. As long as the conversation is intelligent and respectful, folks should feel just as free to state why they disagree as others agree.

Montanez wrote: Garcia is sure-handed, like Descalso.  Being a reliable fielder is a big asset.  

Also like Descalso, Garcia is not speedy.  He is not flashy. 

If Garcia could serve as a backup SS, he should have value as a ML reserve.

My only reservation with this analogy is that, one, Garcia has been playing a substantial amount of SS in the minors whereas Descalso didn't play SS much at all.

Secondly, Descalso hit a lot better than Garcia in AA, but that could be an anomaly for DD.

Domeboys wrote: If Garcia's ceiling is believed to be a utility player, how does that justify him being ranked in the top 10-15 in this system? (I did not have Garcia, Kozma or Jackson in my top 20.)

Brian, have all the players ranked in your past top 10-15 prospects list made the ML?

While we are speculating on what Garcia and others might one day do, Kozma has already done enough to justify his position in the ranking.

So far in the major league, Kozma has been instrumental in getting his team into the post-season and, once there, was in the top two or three on the team in both RBIs and runs scored in both the NLDS and NLCS. He also played very reasonable defense. Niether Garcia nor any of the others can touch that.