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2013 Bullpen talk
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Posted: 10/25/2012 6:50 PM
2013 Bullpen talk
figured i'd make a topic about it due to the bullpen talk in the furcal elbow thread. plus, we got a topic on the starting rotation thanx to hurdle.
currently have:
RHP locks: motte (CL), boggs, mujica, salas, kelly (if don't win rotation spot)
LHP locks: scrabble
released: marte, browning
will the 2nd LHP spot be filled from organization (freeman, siegrist, gast, lyons) or will be get a FA?
and to throw a wrinkle into it all, i can see:
-maybe salas traded either in dec, march, april or midseason depending on how minor league guys look
-chance for mujica to be traded next trade deadline period if we have minor league guys ready to step up. i think there a chance due to he'll be a FA after 2013.
RHP minor leaguers who could step up:
-cleto
-sanchez
-maybe reifer if still around
-fornataro (will be added to 40 man nov 20th)
Last edited 10/25/2012 6:51 PM by cardzZilla
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Posted: 10/25/2012 6:55 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
From the Furcal's elbow thread.
619illinibooyah wrote: How many guys in the Bullpen would you like? Hadn't thought about it yet. How about closer, set up guy, two loogys, Rosey, Miller, Kelly. |
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Posted: 10/25/2012 7:14 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
blingboy wrote:From the Furcal's elbow thread.
619illinibooyah wrote: How many guys in the Bullpen would you like?
Hadn't thought about it yet. How about closer, set up guy, two loogys, Rosey, Miller, Kelly. Let's do this!  |
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Posted: 10/25/2012 7:47 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
Everyone seems to think Browning and Marte are gone this Winter but I'm not so sure.
Marte was called up in September so they must see something they like. Browning would only seem to be gone if they sign a FA lefty as he may be as good as we've got for the second LOOGY spot.
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Posted: 10/25/2012 9:47 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
CariocaCardinal wrote: Everyone seems to think Browning and Marte are gone this Winter but I'm not so sure.
Marte was called up in September so they must see something they like. Browning would only seem to be gone if they sign a FA lefty as he may be as good as we've got for the second LOOGY spot. Both guys are on the 40 man roster so could be casualties if the team needs the roster spots. Marte in particular did well for a while before getting lit up his last month or so before being demoted. Victor seems like a AAAA to me as he has been very good at Memphis. He is a cheap veteran and has value IMO. Ditto for Browning but to a lesser degree on all counts. Both were asked to do more than they are really capable of last year frequency wise last year but you do need guys like them during the course of the year to eat innings and minimize wear to more important pitchers. I think it really depends on whether or not Moz can do better before opening day.
GO CARDS!
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Posted: 10/25/2012 11:04 PM
RE: 2013 Bullpen talk
browning got passed by freeman on the depth chart. and when there is a severe need to open up spots on the 40 man to protect guys from rule 5, he's gotta go. that the same reason i think marte will be gone too.
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Posted: 10/26/2012 12:14 PM
RE: 2013 Bullpen talk
Youngsters:
Miller absolutely shouldn't be in the bullpen now or ever.
Rosenthal should only be added if they plan to use a Medlen-plan to limit his innings since he has bumped up quite a bit and still only threw 140 innings last year.
Lefties:
Rzep should strictly be used as a LOOGY, so, imo, if Freeman/Gast can't hack it against both lefties and righties, then I would go outside the organization.
I think a savvy trade would be aquiring Jorge De La Rosa from the Rockies. He's due $11M next year (they could eat some/half of that) and he could backup Garcia in the rotation if they want a LH starter or be our LH reliever. I think he might do well relieving since he could rachet his fastball up some from 91-92 to 93-94.
Others:
I don't think Salas is a lock at all. If Kelly, Sanchez, or Cleto could push him out, then by all means do so.
Kelly's K/9 rate increased from 5ish, while starting, to 9.2 while relieving. That's impressive.
There is no way that the Cards would trade Mujica if he is doing well regardless of FA status at the end of the year.
Potential Bullpen:
Motte
Boggs
Mujica
Rzepczynski
LHP (FA/Trade, Freeman, Gast)
RHP (Salas, Sanchez, Cleto, or Rosenthal, if he isn't starting)
Kelly (Emergency starter as well)
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Posted: 10/26/2012 1:17 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
Speaking of Eduardo Sanchez........whatever happened to him? Is he injured? Seems like he just fell off the map after a very solid start in 2011. Rat |
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Posted: 10/26/2012 5:47 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
We really need at least one more quality Lefty, maybe two. I agree that these quality leftys are already in our system. The young pitching is stacked up like firewood IMO.
No negative waves man!
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Posted: 10/26/2012 6:18 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
Lots of others to consider, could move Wacha there, Love Kelly in relief, Jordan Swagerty will be ready by middle of the year, but could also do low stress, long relief.
All three can do that role, I imagine that Wacha and Swagerty will be in AA or AAA tho.
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Posted: 10/26/2012 7:10 PM
RE: 2013 Bullpen talk
The lefty I want is in free agency by the name of JP Howell.
Bullpen:
Scrabble
Kelly
Howell
Rosenthal
Boggs
Mujica
Salas
Motte
Great Grand Father is Eddie Dyer
St. Louis Cardinals Manager
1946-1950
Owner of his World Series Ring
World Series Champions 1946
Follow Me on Twitter
Jack_Attack030
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Posted: 10/26/2012 7:10 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
RatsBuddy wrote:Speaking of Eduardo Sanchez........whatever happened to him? Is he injured? Seems like he just fell off the map after a very solid start in 2011. Rat In mid June 2011 he went on the DL with a strained shoulder. Tried to come back but was shut down in mid July. Pitched total of around 40 innings this year, ERA well over 5. |
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Posted: 10/27/2012 12:29 AM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
I really would like to see Cleto turn the corner but I just don't see it happening especially with Rosenthal on the fast track and Kelly. I'm mean how many guys throwing 98-100 do you need in the pen?
If they added a lefty then it would be a very dangerous pen. If for some reason you need to pull Kelly or Rosenthal to start you'd have Cleto in AAA. Let's hope they groom him to be a closer guy instead of this back and forth stuff.
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Posted: 10/27/2012 1:59 AM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
GO CARDS!
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Posted: 10/27/2012 3:00 AM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
cardzZilla wrote:
RHP locks: motte (CL), boggs, mujica, salas, kelly (if don't win rotation spot)
LHP locks: scrabble
I wouldn't call them locks, but if there was such a thing, it would be Motte. Only injury could make him "not a lock'. And I like Kelly's chances too. I'm not quite sure about Mujica and Boggs. I have seen them struggle at the major league level, but their performances this year (Mujica after trade) has certainly increased my confidence in them. Lynn could be in the bullpen also.
released: marte, browning
Agree, and McClellen non-tendered, but possibly resigned. I don't know if that will happen, I just read that.
will the 2nd LHP spot be filled from organization (freeman, siegrist, gast, lyons) or will be get a FA?
I'd like to get a (really) good LHP by trade or sign, but maybe one of our prospects can be the one we need. At least we have several to work with.
i can see:
-maybe salas traded either in dec, march, april or midseason depending on how minor league guys look
I'd say just about any right hander is a candidate. One exception would be Motte. Salas would be the obvious candidate based on 2012 performance. But if Salas and Boggs go to spring training and pitch like they did in 2011, then Boggs could become the odd man out. I don't know why they would resign McClellan, but MLB Trade Rumers suggests that it is possible .
-chance for mujica to be traded next trade deadline period if we have minor
league guys ready to step up. i think there a chance due to he'll be a FA after 2013.
I don't think they will trade him if they are contending and he is contributing. But if he's inconsistant he could be thrown into a deal for something need.
RHP minor leaguers who could step up:
-cleto
-sanchez
-maybe reifer if still around
-fornataro (will be added to 40 man nov 20th)
I hope they do. At least one of these could be traded too. Of that group, I'd guess that Cleto had the best chance (as a throw-in). |
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Posted: 10/27/2012 8:23 AM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
blingboy wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote:Speaking of Eduardo Sanchez........whatever happened to him? Is he injured? Seems like he just fell off the map after a very solid start in 2011. Rat
In mid June 2011 he went on the DL with a strained shoulder. Tried to come back but was shut down in mid July. Pitched total of around 40 innings this year, ERA well over 5. Cardinals reliever Eduardo Sanchez will appear in the Venezuelan Winter League, according to general manager John Mozeliak. Opening day was 10/11/2012, but you have to be an insider to read the winter reports here. |
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Posted: 10/27/2012 11:38 AM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
PadsFS wrote:
blingboy wrote:
RatsBuddy wrote: Speaking of Eduardo Sanchez........whatever happened to him? Is he injured? Seems like he just fell off the map after a very solid start in 2011. Rat
In mid June 2011 he went on the DL with a strained shoulder. Tried to come back but was shut down in mid July. Pitched total of around 40 innings this year, ERA well over 5. Cardinals reliever Eduardo Sanchez will appear in the Venezuelan Winter League, according to general manager John Mozeliak.
Opening day was 10/11/2012, but you have to be an insider to read the winter reports here. yet to make an appearance with them
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Posted: 10/27/2012 11:46 AM
RE: 2013 Bullpen talk
@nbr when i say lock, i meant before taking all that other stuff into account i mentioned later. though i do think boggs locked in no matter what unless his performance falls off a cliff. and the only way mujica would get traded at trade deadline is if another prove they can handle what he'd been doing, which is conceivable. but just as likely he'll be the main #2 RHP before motte and stay entire yr.
if mclellan resigned, i'll be as bitter at that, as i was with the schumaker resigning. would serve no purpose (check sept and oct stats, that what the schumaker contract turned into) other than block people. and with the sheer volume of guys eligible for rule 5 both this yr and next, mclellan blocking whoever (that who i mean by blocking, those guys where decision to add them to 40 man or not) has to be a major concern. i still wish we traded him in the off season when his stock was the highest.
Last edited 10/27/2012 11:48 AM by cardzZilla
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Posted: 10/29/2012 10:47 AM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
cardinalnationhouston wrote:
Affeldt, Oliver, Choate! affeldt will probably be pretty expensive. i can't get behind oliver due to he probably gonna fall apart at some point, think he'll be 43 next yr. i do like choate alot. thoughts on jp howell, or he too much of a soft tosser?
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Posted: 10/29/2012 1:34 PM
Re: 2013 Bullpen talk
cardzZilla wrote:
cardinalnationhouston wrote:
Affeldt, Oliver, Choate! affeldt will probably be pretty expensive. i can't get behind oliver due to he probably gonna fall apart at some point, think he'll be 43 next yr. i do like choate alot.
thoughts on jp howell, or he too much of a soft tosser? Seems like for years now the Cards do not want to sink $$$ into left handed relief. I have thought all along that this is a tragic error. It really cost them last year as Marc Rzepczynski was just brutal. It does not always show in E.R.A but he failed more times than not to get the guys out that they needed him to. Maybe they move him to starter this year but i am not sure he is worth the roster spot. Affeldt would be expensive but well worth it b/c he is a weapon from the left side. Any of the guys mentioned would be far better than what we had last year. i think it is time to pony up some cash for at least one lefty. I am not excited about Freeman either and Browning is probably gone.
GO CARDS!
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