Posted: 10/23/2012 2:16 PM
nathanleopoldjr wrote: They are not going to do anything at SS or 2nd in the off season. Furcal is under contract and Descalso played well enough so they won't do anything there. I think the lineup is already set for next year. I think the rotation will be very weak next year with Carpenter and Garcia with fragile arms, Wainwright being only a shadow of what he used to be, Westbrook being pedestrian and Lynn probably not being a starter at all. 2013 will be a frustrating year and probably not see the Cardinals in the playoffs. The owners are waiting until 2014 when they'll have Taveras, Miller, Rosenthal, etc. ready to play and they will have eliminated some big contracts.
Posted: 10/23/2012 2:43 PM
Domeboys wrote: Unless it is a situation where a deal is required due to an unhappy camper, trying to predict trades is almost impossible.
Posted: 10/23/2012 3:00 PM
Posted: 10/23/2012 4:11 PM
blingboy wrote: Domeboys wrote: Unless it is a situation where a deal is required due to an unhappy camper, trying to predict trades is almost impossible. Agree. 2B seems like the most likely position for the team to be different next year though, wouldn't you agree?
Posted: 10/23/2012 6:39 PM
BobReed wrote: nathanleopoldjr wrote: They are not going to do anything at SS or 2nd in the off season. Furcal is under contract and Descalso played well enough so they won't do anything there. I think the lineup is already set for next year. I think the rotation will be very weak next year with Carpenter and Garcia with fragile arms, Wainwright being only a shadow of what he used to be, Westbrook being pedestrian and Lynn probably not being a starter at all. 2013 will be a frustrating year and probably not see the Cardinals in the playoffs. The owners are waiting until 2014 when they'll have Taveras, Miller, Rosenthal, etc. ready to play and they will have eliminated some big contracts. If the team were going to be up against its payroll budget this off-season, I might agree with at least the first portion of the above screed.But with Berkman, Lohse, McClellan, and perhaps even Rzep coming off the books, there's going to be plenty of dough for bringing in veteran backups at shortstop and outfield. Rotation woes? I can't see it, Nate. Even sans Lohse, you've got 8 guys for 5 slots right now, if my math is right. Lessee: Carp, AW, Garcia, Lynn, Westbrook, and the three kids you apparently didn't notice were excellent during their MLB debuts this year: Kelly, Miller and Rosie. (I'll grant that Joe K. should be a bullpen arm, if his troubles vs. lefties persist.) And down on the farm, you've got a pair of guys who were quite effective in AA at age 20, in Wacha and Martinez. By mid-2013 it's completely plausible that one or both of them will be succeeding at Memphis, and able to contribute league-average innings as an MLB starter, in a pinch (not unlike Joe Kelly this year).The starting pitching will be solid-to-outstanding; have no fear.And Taveras? He'll be ready to take over RF if and when Beltran's knees get balky next year -- even if it happens in Spring Training. The 20-year-old is a masher.Allen Craig gets hurt? Call up Matt Adams. Trouble at 2nd base? If Matt Carpenter doesn't have the glove for a keystone role, well, by midyear Kolten Wong could well be ready.In sum, the Birds are as well-positioned for 2013 as any team in the Senior Circuit...and much better than all but 2 or 3.
Posted: 10/23/2012 6:55 PM
Posted: 10/23/2012 10:16 PM
Posted: 10/24/2012 8:06 AM
blingboy wrote: BobReed, surely what matters isn't how much talent the Cards have waiting in the wings, but whether they will use it. For example, what is Taveras the masher going to do for us if Beltran's knees aren't balky enough to put him on the DL, but his production isn't what a contender needs from a corner outfield spot? You can't tell me the Cards are going to sit Carlos and his contract no matter what Taveras is OPSing in Memphis. If Carp, Waino, Westbrook and Garcia are healthy and putting up 9-14 years what are Miller, Rosenthal, Kelly, Martinez and Wacha going to do for us? Helluva middle relief, but that's it.
Posted: 10/24/2012 9:15 AM
Posted: 10/24/2012 10:15 AM
blingboy wrote: I didn't mean it that way. I think that our hot young starters and Taveras will not replace any money guys who end up struggling through rather poor years, even if it costs us a postseason. That's not to say I think they will all suck. I hope not at least. But a 9-14 Carp or Waino who is healthy is not going to be sent off to sit in the pen along with their big salary, that will just never happen. So just because we have all these hot arms does not mean we will have a dominant rotation. How dominant our rotation is depends on how dominant the four money guys are.
Posted: 10/24/2012 11:37 AM
Posted: 10/24/2012 12:02 PM
BobReed wrote: Yes, 2012 was indeed a good year; in fact, I'd say it was (cue Sinatra) a verrry good year. Regular season, solid B. Playoffs, I'd go B+.And as far as next year's rotation being "outstanding" or not... well, perhaps it depends upon one's definition of the word. For instance, this year's Redbirds had the National League's 3rd-best starting pitcher ERA.Is 3rd-best, in a 16-team league, "outstanding?" I'd say so.Losing Kyle Lohse's numbers will hurt, of course. But shouldn't Wainwright be better, perhaps much better, a year further out from surgery? Shouldn't Carp contribute more, and Lynn be more polished with a season of experience under his belt? And if Garcia is unavailable for any meaningful length of time, don't Miller and Rosenthal appear ready to step in and provide at least above-average innings?Put another way: can any of the pessimists out there name 4 or 5 other N.L. rotations that they'd rather have, going forward? I see Washington. The Phillies, maybe -- but only if Halladay returns to form. And that's about it. For me, anyway. Honestly, though -- because the Redbirds are better-stocked with starter depth -- the chance for mediocrity is less in St.Louis than anywhere else in the Senior Circuit. (And the same could be said for the 2013 offense, for that matter.)The notion that a poor performer would be permitted to remain in the rotation for more than 10 or 12 starts... well, I can't see it happening. Garcia, Westbrook, or Lynn would be yanked from their slot. And Wainwright and Carp, if 80-90% healthy, simply will not be below average pitchers. Their talent and smarts preclude it. ;)
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