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Reality check.

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Posted: 06/22/2014 10:28 PM

Reality check. 


This was Mike Dee's response to the media after Byrnes' canning:

"This ownership group is committed to fielding a team that consistently competes for postseason play, Thus far this season, the results on the field have been mixed at best and clearly have not lived up to expectations. After a lengthy evaluation of every facet of our baseball operations, we have decided to make this change today."

He actually said that.

"Consistently competes for post-season play" is as good as saying "we want to be kinda good on a regular basis." I would think a guy in his position could measure his words a little better. He's got to know a statement like that will ring hollow.

Add to that, "the results on the field have been mixed?" I think a lot of us would giddily chainsaw the chips off our shoulders for mixed results.

Don't you wish, just once, management would tell it like it is? If Dee had simply said something like, "Look we've been terrible this year. Everyone is trying their darnedest to turn things around, but it's just not happening. Sometimes moves like this just need to be made," the honesty would soften the sting of our play a little.
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Posted: 06/22/2014 10:29 PM

Re: Reality check. 


By the way, have any of you noticed we have a new name in the media?

We're "the light-hitting Padres."
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Posted: 06/22/2014 10:33 PM

Re: Reality check. 



LevelAgain wrote: By the way, have any of you noticed we have a new name in the media?

We're "the light-hitting Padres."
Wait, that's new?
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Posted: 06/22/2014 10:35 PM

Re: Reality check. 


Did I type "new?" 

I meant to type "universally accepted."
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Posted: 06/22/2014 10:36 PM

Re: Reality check. 


"Consistently competes for post-season play" is the same thing as Towers always saying that he wants to build "competitive team". Neither is necessarily a winning team. I want someone in the organization to say they want a winning team.




 THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES
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Posted: 06/22/2014 10:54 PM

Re: Reality check. 



LevelAgain wrote: This was Mike Dee's response to the media after Byrnes' canning:

"This ownership group is committed to fielding a team that consistently competes for postseason play, Thus far this season, the results on the field have been mixed at best and clearly have not lived up to expectations. After a lengthy evaluation of every facet of our baseball operations, we have decided to make this change today."

He actually said that.

"Consistently competes for post-season play" is as good as saying "we want to be kinda good on a regular basis." I would think a guy in his position could measure his words a little better. He's got to know a statement like that will ring hollow.

Add to that, "the results on the field have been mixed?" I think a lot of us would giddily chainsaw the chips off our shoulders for mixed results.

Don't you wish, just once, management would tell it like it is? If Dee had simply said something like, "Look we've been terrible this year. Everyone is trying their darnedest to turn things around, but it's just not happening. Sometimes moves like this just need to be made," the honesty would soften the sting of our play a little.
And while Im at it, and by the way, thanks Level for teeing it up, who is this Mike Dee clown and why is he steering the Fowler/Carpetbagger ship?  Why not find a winner? There has to be a Cards guy, a TB guy or somebody besides a washed up football, used to be baseball has been. I am done. And out of beer too...
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Posted: 06/23/2014 4:04 AM

Re: Reality check. 


How realistic would it be if he said he wants a team that wins the Division every year?
We have the Dodgers and Giants spending 2-3 TIMES what we are spending.
You want honesty but you want him to say we should be winning the division year in and year out?
I think every one here would be happy if we had a shot at the playoffs in August every year.





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 06/23/2014 8:06 AM

Re: Reality check. 



MrPadre19 wrote: How realistic would it be if he said he wants a team that wins the Division every year?
We have the Dodgers and Giants spending 2-3 TIMES what we are spending.
You want honesty but you want him to say we should be winning the division year in and year out?
I think every one here would be happy if we had a shot at the playoffs in August every year.
As long as the Rays and Marlins keep performing as they are we have no excuses.
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Posted: 06/23/2014 8:47 AM

Re: Reality check. 



lafnboy13 wrote:
MrPadre19 wrote: How realistic would it be if he said he wants a team that wins the Division every year?
We have the Dodgers and Giants spending 2-3 TIMES what we are spending.
You want honesty but you want him to say we should be winning the division year in and year out?
I think every one here would be happy if we had a shot at the playoffs in August every year.
As long as the Rays and Marlins keep performing as they are we have no excuses.
Might want to add Oakland who have the best record in the ML this season and an opening day payroll $7MM LESS than the Padres.  Also, they have been a consistent contending team of the past years … a lot more so than the Padres. Also, look at their roster … not exactly filled with a lot of long term guys that came out of the draft or multiple super stars. Their FO seems to know how to pick the right players to win with limited dollars and are able to compete (and exceed) the big spenders in LAA, Texas, and Seattle.
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Posted: 06/23/2014 9:38 AM

Re: Reality check. 


Talking about a reality check, this firing along with the Despaigne promotion and the speculation with the deadline is the most interest I've had in the Padres since I went to the Cubs game when they were giving the knock arounds.
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Posted: 06/23/2014 2:00 PM

Re: Reality check. 



lafnboy13 wrote:
MrPadre19 wrote: How realistic would it be if he said he wants a team that wins the Division every year?
We have the Dodgers and Giants spending 2-3 TIMES what we are spending.
You want honesty but you want him to say we should be winning the division year in and year out?
I think every one here would be happy if we had a shot at the playoffs in August every year.
As long as the Rays and Marlins keep performing as they are we have no excuses.
the Rays have a worse record than the Padres
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Posted: 06/23/2014 2:08 PM

Re: Reality check. 



lafnboy13 wrote:
MrPadre19 wrote: How realistic would it be if he said he wants a team that wins the Division every year?
We have the Dodgers and Giants spending 2-3 TIMES what we are spending.
You want honesty but you want him to say we should be winning the division year in and year out?
I think every one here would be happy if we had a shot at the playoffs in August every year.
As long as the Rays and Marlins keep performing as they are we have no excuses.
Also the Marlins are good this year but have not been for a while.
Even this year they are still a game under .500 right now.
Not bad....but not exactly dominating.





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 06/23/2014 2:11 PM

Re: Reality check. 



FENN68 wrote:
lafnboy13 wrote:
MrPadre19 wrote: How realistic would it be if he said he wants a team that wins the Division every year?
We have the Dodgers and Giants spending 2-3 TIMES what we are spending.
You want honesty but you want him to say we should be winning the division year in and year out?
I think every one here would be happy if we had a shot at the playoffs in August every year.
As long as the Rays and Marlins keep performing as they are we have no excuses.
Might want to add Oakland who have the best record in the ML this season and an opening day payroll $7MM LESS than the Padres.  Also, they have been a consistent contending team of the past years … a lot more so than the Padres. Also, look at their roster … not exactly filled with a lot of long term guys that came out of the draft or multiple super stars. Their FO seems to know how to pick the right players to win with limited dollars and are able to compete (and exceed) the big spenders in LAA, Texas, and Seattle.
Yeah I used to regard Billy Beane as over rated.......but man,he does this almost every year!
Even when he makes what appears to be a bad move it works out for them.
They have traded or released two full starting rotations of major leaguers who are right now performing at a high level......at yet they just seem to keep replacing them!
How about we steal Billy Beane away from them!!
Trade them whatever it takes!!(yea right!)
Like the A's would let him get away!





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 06/23/2014 11:41 PM

Re: Reality check. 


Too lazy to pull up the links but both Byrnes and Dee were on with Darren Smith this afternoon.  You could tell there was a LOT of bad blood between the two.  

To sum it up, Byrnes was originally told (under previous owners) that they needed to rebuild the franchise.  The message was continued after Hoyer left.  New ownership comes in and changes the philosophy to "win now or else."  They thought if they threw a few extra mil on the payroll that that would be enough to win.  

Byrnes thought he did a good job, said we were expected to finish around .500 with some thinking we would go to the postseason.  The ownership group didnt seem to care and put unrealistic expectations on the club.  The second the injuries to Q and Johnson happened to Byrnes the writing was on the wall.  Said he wasnt surprised by the firing saying it was "the climate in the front office all year."

Byrnes also said he was offended by Mike Dee's comments that he oversold how good the team would be.  Byrnes said he put the best product on the field, and at you cant do much when everything goes wrong.  He said they would be competitive, who would have guessed everything would go wrong.  

Mike Dee then comes on later, and says "Byrnes said that, that team wouldnt be very good??  Well thats why he is no longer part of our FO."  He said Buddy was spared because they "believe he is a great field manager that gets the best out of his players.  Especially given the roster he has to work with... he has done a good job."  Also said he has worked with great GMs in the past (including naming KT) and that they will find a GM to bring the Padres to the top of the NL West
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Posted: 06/24/2014 1:23 AM

Re: Reality check. 



BenDavey wrote: Too lazy to pull up the links but both Byrnes and Dee were on with Darren Smith this afternoon.  You could tell there was a LOT of bad blood between the two.  

To sum it up, Byrnes was originally told (under previous owners) that they needed to rebuild the franchise.  The message was continued after Hoyer left.  New ownership comes in and changes the philosophy to "win now or else."  They thought if they threw a few extra mil on the payroll that that would be enough to win.  

Byrnes thought he did a good job, said we were expected to finish around .500 with some thinking we would go to the postseason.  The ownership group didnt seem to care and put unrealistic expectations on the club.  The second the injuries to Q and Johnson happened to Byrnes the writing was on the wall.  Said he wasnt surprised by the firing saying it was "the climate in the front office all year."

Byrnes also said he was offended by Mike Dee's comments that he oversold how good the team would be.  Byrnes said he put the best product on the field, and at you cant do much when everything goes wrong.  He said they would be competitive, who would have guessed everything would go wrong.  

Mike Dee then comes on later, and says "Byrnes said that, that team wouldnt be very good??  Well thats why he is no longer part of our FO."  He said Buddy was spared because they "believe he is a great field manager that gets the best out of his players.  Especially given the roster he has to work with... he has done a good job."  Also said he has worked with great GMs in the past (including naming KT) and that they will find a GM to bring the Padres to the top of the NL West
Yikes. That's... poisonous. And not at all promising to hear.

That said, these are all Byrnes' boys. Alonso and Gyorko and Grandal and Maybin and Quentin and Venable. They're all guys he acquired or awarded deals. They're also the core of this offense (eh, ok, maybe not Venable). Is he trying to backtrack and say that Alonso wasn't meant to be our future? Or that Grandal wasn't? Or Maybin? There are a few guys in the system like Renfroe who are probably a part of the long term plan, but it's impossible for Byrnes to deny that a considerable chunk of his vision was already in place, and it was historically bad.

What that all means is this: it's irrelevant if he thought we were rebuilding or competing. If he thought this offense would be competitive, he was wrong. If he thought this lineup would be competitive with a few tweaks in a year or two, he was wrong. Yeah, a LOT of us were wrong about that, but HE's the one getting paid to make these decisions. Because those decisions didn't pan out (at all), he's been fired.

Still, I hate to hear the atmosphere in the FO really has become that bad. On one hand, it's nice to hear we have ownership that wants to win and isn't interested in excuses. On the other, I hate the idea that ownership might be unbearably and dangerously impatient. Hopefully whoever they bring in next will be permitted a little more leeway.
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Posted: 06/24/2014 7:03 AM

Re: Reality check. 


The post by Ben just confirms the earlier comments that there was a poor relationship between Byrnes and Dee … and quite frankly … in the real world most times a bad relationship with your boss gets you fired (or at best moved out of your job). All the other posts (including mine) are really irrelevant to reason why he should or should be fired … don't work with the boss … then you become of no value to the organization and even a negative force.

Normally at this juncture (after the firing), even in the business world, the protocol for the firer and the one fired is to "play nice" in public and move on … the fact that Byrnes and Dee have not taken the "high road" just shows how contentious the relationship must have been. They don't like each other … all else is irrelevant … not even a question as to who maybe right in the any point of contention. Just as important to have a team in the FO as it is to have a team on the field.

To a sense, this is not seeing the forrest for the trees in all of our posts … looking at the trees (individual actions of Byrnes and debating good vs. bad) and not seeing the forrest (the relationship with the boss and the end results). I also don't think that any player, any manager (think Black), or any GM (think Byrnes) automatically deserve to be given more time if there is a pattern of under performance even if some suggest it is just bad luck and unfortunate circumstances. Maybe that is unfair to some … the real world does not care … bad things happen to good people all the time … and sometimes change for change sake rejuvenates an organization. It just is not about the individual.

This is the world these guys understand and chose to work in … they should not be surprised at how this plays out … nothing really unusual consider the baseball's handling of managers, coaches, and players. No harm … no foul.

PS … Byrnes will not be hurting for a paycheck and should really be thanking Jeff Moorad. When in AZ Moorad gave him an 8 year deal through 2015 (thought to be excessive at the time) then when Byrnes got promoted to GM in SD, Moorad tore up the AZ deal (which was in part paying Byrnes while in SD … and took AZ off the hook) and signed Byrnes to a "larger" deal through 2016. Got to love Moorad!
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Posted: 06/24/2014 7:28 AM

Re: Reality check. 


No kidding, Sport.

This doesn't seem to bode well for the team's future. Of course, there's probably a lot we still don't know. But it sure doesn't seem like the environment where everyone's working in the same direction.

And if I were Black, I'd be scouting my next paycheck. Dee's comments sounded less like an endorsement of his performance, and more like another jab at Byrnes.
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Posted: 06/24/2014 7:36 AM

Re: Reality check. 



sportwarrior wrote:
BenDavey wrote: Too lazy to pull up the links but both Byrnes and Dee were on with Darren Smith this afternoon.  You could tell there was a LOT of bad blood between the two.  

To sum it up, Byrnes was originally told (under previous owners) that they needed to rebuild the franchise.  The message was continued after Hoyer left.  New ownership comes in and changes the philosophy to "win now or else."  They thought if they threw a few extra mil on the payroll that that would be enough to win.  

Byrnes thought he did a good job, said we were expected to finish around .500 with some thinking we would go to the postseason.  The ownership group didnt seem to care and put unrealistic expectations on the club.  The second the injuries to Q and Johnson happened to Byrnes the writing was on the wall.  Said he wasnt surprised by the firing saying it was "the climate in the front office all year."

Byrnes also said he was offended by Mike Dee's comments that he oversold how good the team would be.  Byrnes said he put the best product on the field, and at you cant do much when everything goes wrong.  He said they would be competitive, who would have guessed everything would go wrong.  

Mike Dee then comes on later, and says "Byrnes said that, that team wouldnt be very good??  Well thats why he is no longer part of our FO."  He said Buddy was spared because they "believe he is a great field manager that gets the best out of his players.  Especially given the roster he has to work with... he has done a good job."  Also said he has worked with great GMs in the past (including naming KT) and that they will find a GM to bring the Padres to the top of the NL West
Yikes. That's... poisonous. And not at all promising to hear.

That said, these are all Byrnes' boys. Alonso and Gyorko and Grandal and Maybin and Quentin and Venable. They're all guys he acquired or awarded deals. They're also the core of this offense (eh, ok, maybe not Venable). Is he trying to backtrack and say that Alonso wasn't meant to be our future? Or that Grandal wasn't? Or Maybin? There are a few guys in the system like Renfroe who are probably a part of the long term plan, but it's impossible for Byrnes to deny that a considerable chunk of his vision was already in place, and it was historically bad.

What that all means is this: it's irrelevant if he thought we were rebuilding or competing. If he thought this offense would be competitive, he was wrong. If he thought this lineup would be competitive with a few tweaks in a year or two, he was wrong. Yeah, a LOT of us were wrong about that, but HE's the one getting paid to make these decisions. Because those decisions didn't pan out (at all), he's been fired.

Still, I hate to hear the atmosphere in the FO really has become that bad. On one hand, it's nice to hear we have ownership that wants to win and isn't interested in excuses. On the other, I hate the idea that ownership might be unbearably and dangerously impatient. Hopefully whoever they bring in next will be permitted a little more leeway.
I got the VERY distinct sense from Fowler (?) in the 18 minute mostly Mike Dee video that he is like the boss in the Dilbert's cartoon; "we increased our payroll 25% (to 21st?) so we should be leading the division".

A GM would be stupid to come out every year and say "I guarantee we're going to win 90+ games"!   Expectations/predictions for Pads WERE higher this year... but I think it's a blatant mischaracterization for ownership to say that was given to them from Byrnes.  The "25% increase" went to:  Arbitration increases, 8 MM Johnson, 6 MM Benoit to replace Gregerson, and  Smith for Gregerson a wash.  That was it.  A starter & a platoon OF.

Whatever.  I'm with Ben Davey.  Kudos are deserved for increasing payroll & apparently genuinely wanting to keep doing so, but so far I haven't seen great leadership from  this ownership group.  Obviously Byrnes was going to go if he didn't get along with Dee... but that doesn't mean Dee is right.

Since both our former GM and current Manager are "widely respected as being among the best in baseball"....
Can anyone think of any other issues the team may have?   Good luck attracting Free Agents guys.

Last edited 06/24/2014 7:50 AM by brianmcon

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Posted: 06/24/2014 7:43 AM

Re: Reality check. 


The favorite line that I read on the whole situation was this:

Mike Dee - "Josh, why don't you go buy Ron and I a couple of steaks.  Here is $3.  Make sure they are really good."

It's amazing to me that Dee is even in this conversation with Black and Byrnes considering how low the bar is for him to screw up.  But look at what he's done since he came over from Miami
  • Fired a popular broadcaster in Andy Masur to bring in a flak from Miami
  • Ran an idiotic PA Announcer contest and in the process fired a good man who did nothing wrong
  • Orchestrated the idiotic selection of Johnny Manziel and then doubled down by pretending it wasn't a publicity stunt.

My question is, and maybe I don't know this because I don't live in San Diego anymore, what has Dee done right?
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Posted: 06/24/2014 11:18 AM

Re: Reality check. 


What had me concerned from the media conference on Sunday was Dee's comment that for new GM's position "will be office" made of Minaya, Uhlamn, and Hinch.  Until maybe the end of the season!  It's it just me or does that seem like a cluster****??  They are going to swift and decisive with the trade deadline???   The three debating a move with Uncle Mike's blessing.
The current unis are a hound.... Bring Back The Brown
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