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Eighty@#$!%million dollars.

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Posted: 10/02/2013 4:39 PM

Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


Check out this chart published in the UT today...
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/oct/02/mlb-dod gers-nl-west-guggenheim-owners/

N.L. West

Team | W-L | Opening Day Payroll

Dodgers | 92-70 | $234.5 million

Diamondbacks | 81-81 | $86.3 million

Padres | 76-86 | $68.3 million

Giants | 76-86 | $136.9 million

Rockies | 74-88 | $73.9 million

Now, I realize many of you already knew these numbers. Still, it sure puts this presumed bump in payroll to $80M in perspective.
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Posted: 10/02/2013 5:06 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


Just for a balanced look ... half of the 2013 playoff teams are in the lower half of MLB in payroll (comes from an October report ... CBS I think)

TB ..........$65.6
OAK ........$71.1
PITT ........$73.6
CLEV .......$88.6
ATL .........$95.3

One could interpret this as if the same number of teams make the playoffs from the top payroll teams and the bottom payroll teams .... payroll is not the prime factor in success.

Also, projecting the Padres in the mid-80's, that will get them in the 2014 wild card game ahead of Pittsburgh wink
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Posted: 10/02/2013 10:36 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


If I wanted to be balanced, I wouldn't be an Internet poster.
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Posted: 10/03/2013 3:50 AM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


Yes,this proves once again that its more important "who" you pay,than how much.





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 10/03/2013 9:11 AM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


"Yes,this proves once again that its more important "who" you pay,than how much."

Players get injured and can't produce.  The margin of error is quite limiting for the smaller market teams.  Everything has to go right.  I know someone is going to throw out the examples of Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh.   It's not enjoyable or long term good business plan to go through a decade or two of losing just to draft the players you can ride for a few years.
The luxury tax is a joke.  The new commissioner and owners need to have a simple majority rule, maybe with the commish as the tiebreaker to institute sensible solutions and cooperation with the players union to address this ridiculous environment.  Currently the Dodgers are position to be the Harlem Globetrotters of the NL West and rest of us as the Washington Generals.

Until I die I will be a Padre Fan.  I am not a fan of the current system.
"I want Padres fans to understand that it’s not going to be smooth sailing from Day 1, But I can promise you we’re going to have the hungriest, hard-working group of employees in the game.” A.J. Preller
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Posted: 10/03/2013 10:20 AM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


I agree about the luxury tax issue.  There has to be some type of competitive balance and there currently is most definitely not.

Like thrown said, maybe a new Commissioner will make a difference.




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Posted: 10/03/2013 10:41 AM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



thrownoutatsecond wrote: "Yes,this proves once again that its more important "who" you pay,than how much."

Players get injured and can't produce.  The margin of error is quite limiting for the smaller market teams.  Everything has to go right.  I know someone is going to throw out the examples of Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh.   It's not enjoyable or long term good business plan to go through a decade or two of losing just to draft the players you can ride for a few years.
The luxury tax is a joke.  The new commissioner and owners need to have a simple majority rule, maybe with the commish as the tiebreaker to institute sensible solutions and cooperation with the players union to address this ridiculous environment.  Currently the Dodgers are position to be the Harlem Globetrotters of the NL West and rest of us as the Washington Generals.

Until I die I will be a Padre Fan.  I am not a fan of the current system.
While I agree with you,it isn't just this season and it isn't just Pittsburgh and Tampa.
It seems every year there is at least one "smaller" market team that makes the playoffs.
Certainly the odds are greater if you spend $200 mil,but that's never gonna happen for most teams........so you have to do it a different way.
There have been many times I have wished we had just "not" signed or traded for guys like Piazza,Maddux,Castilla,Ludwick,Cameron,etc. and just went with our own guys and sucked real bad for 4-5 years.After all,we have nothing to show for those years we "competed" in September.All we really got were draft picks in the teens instead of the top 5.
It would have been hell on these boards.Imagine standing pat every off season and then losing 95+ games every year.





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 10/03/2013 11:48 AM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



FENN68 wrote: Just for a balanced look ... half of the 2013 playoff teams are in the lower half of MLB in payroll (comes from an October report ... CBS I think)

TB ..........$65.6
OAK ........$71.1
PITT ........$73.6
CLEV .......$88.6
ATL .........$95.3

One could interpret this as if the same number of teams make the playoffs from the top payroll teams and the bottom payroll teams .... payroll is not the prime factor in success.

Also, projecting the Padres in the mid-80's, that will get them in the 2014 wild card game ahead of Pittsburgh wink
I would note that of those 5 teams, three were wildcards.  And the current two wildcard system greatly diminishes chances of a wildcard winning it all.

Not saying it can't happen, but in a one game playoff anything can happen.  And even the winning wildcard team puts extra wear on their #1.

Padres Baseball: Waiting until next year since 1969.

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Posted: 10/03/2013 1:47 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



UncleBolt wrote:
FENN68 wrote: Just for a balanced look ... half of the 2013 playoff teams are in the lower half of MLB in payroll (comes from an October report ... CBS I think)

TB ..........$65.6
OAK ........$71.1
PITT ........$73.6
CLEV .......$88.6
ATL .........$95.3

One could interpret this as if the same number of teams make the playoffs from the top payroll teams and the bottom payroll teams .... payroll is not the prime factor in success.

Also, projecting the Padres in the mid-80's, that will get them in the 2014 wild card game ahead of Pittsburgh wink
I would note that of those 5 teams, three were wildcards.  And the current two wildcard system greatly diminishes chances of a wildcard winning it all.

Not saying it can't happen, but in a one game playoff anything can happen.  And even the winning wildcard team puts extra wear on their #1.
Regardless,each of those teams won more than 90 games.
Successful season considering payroll whether Wildcard or not.





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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  • CptJack
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Posted: 10/10/2013 12:41 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



MrPadre19 wrote: While I agree with you,it isn't just this season and it isn't just Pittsburgh and Tampa.
It seems every year there is at least one "smaller" market team that makes the playoffs.
The difference between a big market and a small market club isn't their ability to make the playoffs. It's their ability to make a dynastic run and control a division/league for a half a decade.
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Posted: 10/10/2013 1:31 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



CptJack wrote:
MrPadre19 wrote: While I agree with you,it isn't just this season and it isn't just Pittsburgh and Tampa.
It seems every year there is at least one "smaller" market team that makes the playoffs.
The difference between a big market and a small market club isn't their ability to make the playoffs. It's their ability to make a dynastic run and control a division/league for a half a decade.
See I thought the difference between small market and big market was revenue?
There are big market teams who have not sniffed the Playoffs in decades(Cubs,Mariners.....and small market teams who seem to be competitive year in and year out(A's,Rays more recently,Twins,until recently).





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 10/10/2013 2:16 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


Is St. Louis a mid-market?  I think it is.  Sorta fits your description of "make a dynastic run and control a division/league for a half a decade"   This San Diego is a small market BS was John Moores/Jeff Moorad excuses to suck the revenue sharing teet and wait for inflation to increase the dollar value of the club.

The Padres can be a mid-market if Mike Dee and staff work it right.
"I want Padres fans to understand that it’s not going to be smooth sailing from Day 1, But I can promise you we’re going to have the hungriest, hard-working group of employees in the game.” A.J. Preller
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Posted: 10/10/2013 2:19 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



thrownoutatsecond wrote: Is St. Louis a mid-market?  I think it is.  Sorta fits your description of "make a dynastic run and control a division/league for a half a decade"   This San Diego is a small market BS was John Moores/Jeff Moorad excuses to suck the revenue sharing teet and wait for inflation to increase the dollar value of the club.

The Padres can be a mid-market if Mike Dee and staff work it right.
Depends on the definition....but you're probably right that S.D.  is closer to "Mid" Market than small.
But I was just speaking in terms of big and small.

I'll say it again,San Diegos' probably is Geographical.





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 10/10/2013 2:42 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


It always amazes me that this comes up every year.  Big market teams have big payrolls ... mid / small market teams (not just the Padres) have mid / small payrolls. Shocking revelation eek. Not sure of any example where a small market team has a big market level payroll.

So if the thesis is that only big salary teams can win the World Series (or be consistently in the mix) and that is all that is important ... why would anyone be a fan of a small market team? Go with the big dogs and forget the little guys.

If one is a fan of a small market team (for whatever reason), then they must embrace the strategy to out smart the big salary teams and, occasionally, break through and make the playoffs and even take the brass ring and the World Series.  That is the best the small market team fans can realistically expect.

It is what it is!
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Posted: 10/10/2013 3:01 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



FENN68 wrote: It always amazes me that this comes up every year.  Big market teams have big payrolls ... mid / small market teams (not just the Padres) have mid / small payrolls. Shocking revelation eek. Not sure of any example where a small market team has a big market level payroll.

So if the thesis is that only big salary teams can win the World Series (or be consistently in the mix) and that is all that is important ... why would anyone be a fan of a small market team? Go with the big dogs and forget the little guys.

If one is a fan of a small market team (for whatever reason), then they must embrace the strategy to out smart the big salary teams and, occasionally, break through and make the playoffs and even take the brass ring and the World Series.  That is the best the small market team fans can realistically expect.

It is what it is!
Well,we all know this doesn't always happen.
Like you said,it also amazes me when "Padre fans" come on here complaining about payroll.
With very few exceptions it has always been in the lower 1/3 of the league....so why keep complaining and wondering why?
Like you say....either accept it and root for us to win "despite" this inevitability,or root for the Sox,Yanks,or Dodgers.

Note:This is not directed at anyone in particular as most of us understand this concept, after all, it isn't Rocket Surgery.





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 10/10/2013 3:04 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



MrPadre19 wrote:
thrownoutatsecond wrote: Is St. Louis a mid-market?  I think it is.  Sorta fits your description of "make a dynastic run and control a division/league for a half a decade"   This San Diego is a small market BS was John Moores/Jeff Moorad excuses to suck the revenue sharing teet and wait for inflation to increase the dollar value of the club.

The Padres can be a mid-market if Mike Dee and staff work it right.
Depends on the definition....but you're probably right that S.D.  is closer to "Mid" Market than small.
But I was just speaking in terms of big and small.

I'll say it again,San Diegos' probably is Geographical.
Agree a bit definitional ... hard to think of that may teams that have significantly smaller markets that SD ... about 3.5MM in SD ... keep in mind teams like Minn have fans that span the whole upper mid-west (travel to games / buy stuff / TV network), StL base spreads out over multiple states ... not just what is in the city that makes up the market. Call them mid or small ... clearly they are not with the big boys.

StL is a good example of a smart organization ... mid-market type. A lot of consistency within the organization over the years ... management and philosophy. Also, had the guts to let a local icon like Pujols go as a FA when his price became out of line for their budget. Earlier in the season StL was 11th in payroll around $116MM ... not exactly in the big guys group.

If you just go for the median 15th was Balt ($92MM) and 16th was Milw ($91MM).
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Posted: 10/10/2013 4:50 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


I agree with Mr. P "San Diegos' probably is Geographical."  We are kind of hemmed it but you can have fans in Peoria if you are killer at marketing.  Start with the basics.  Brand the freakin' team with it's own package.  hhhhhmmmmmm.......how about a Brown & Gold Uni.  I am in sales and I can tell you how many deals I have closed because a customer learned I am in San Diego and want to talk about their time in San Diego and how they dream to live here.  Market that sh*t! Market the Mexico/Hispanic connection.  Lucchino did it. Did everyone in the FO forget that?  Speaking of St. Louis, I would love the team to be fashioned around the old mid/late eighties team of the Cardinals.  Great pitching, a bunch of jack rabbits on basea, and a serious big bopper.

Have a Catholic father bless the Friars, play the military connection to the max, adopt a roll & rock band. It must have have a Padres theme song, Pad squad with much more skin, more promotional nights.  Make a Bill Veeck three ring circus if you have to.  Maybe even incentivize players salary with the dog and pony show.  Unshackle the boring old school part of MLB.  Bring it on.  GO PADRES!!
"I want Padres fans to understand that it’s not going to be smooth sailing from Day 1, But I can promise you we’re going to have the hungriest, hard-working group of employees in the game.” A.J. Preller
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Posted: 10/10/2013 5:10 PM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


St Louis also has the advantage of having MANY generations growing up as Cardinal fans.
Radio broadcasts spanning the mid west back in the 30's-50's with many folks outside the area adopting them as their team.
Back in the hay day for baseball.
Much as WGN and TBS did for the Cubs and Braves later on T.V.





Prospect I'm Championing.........Jordan Paroubeck

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Posted: 10/11/2013 6:12 AM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 



thrownoutatsecond wrote: I agree with Mr. P "San Diegos' probably is Geographical."  We are kind of hemmed it but you can have fans in Peoria if you are killer at marketing.  Start with the basics.  Brand the freakin' team with it's own package.  hhhhhmmmmmm.......how about a Brown & Gold Uni.  I am in sales and I can tell you how many deals I have closed because a customer learned I am in San Diego and want to talk about their time in San Diego and how they dream to live here.  Market that sh*t! Market the Mexico/Hispanic connection.  Lucchino did it. Did everyone in the FO forget that?  Speaking of St. Louis, I would love the team to be fashioned around the old mid/late eighties team of the Cardinals.  Great pitching, a bunch of jack rabbits on basea, and a serious big bopper.

Have a Catholic father bless the Friars, play the military connection to the max, adopt a roll & rock band. It must have have a Padres theme song, Pad squad with much more skin, more promotional nights.  Make a Bill Veeck three ring circus if you have to.  Maybe even incentivize players salary with the dog and pony show.  Unshackle the boring old school part of MLB.  Bring it on.  GO PADRES!!
Although having "fans" outside of SD is good ... their marketing efforts need to focus on "revenue producing fans".  One of the revenue elements is out of their control ... MLB has dictated the Padre territory for TV ... and they have signed that 20 year deal with Fox. The other two ... fans who will come to games and fans who will buy Padres "stuff" ... have its potential limited to SD/Tijuana/southern Riverside County.  Sure a few out of market fans will come to SD to see a game or by a souvenir but not near enough to justify a marketing campaign. The cost would exceed the revenue potential.

Basically, it is not about getting fans ... it is about getting fans to spend money. Although I will suggest that "image" marketing has its value (e.g. working with little leagues, etc.) in that the "money spending fans" may be more favorable disposed in supporting an organization they perceive as good.
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Posted: 10/11/2013 7:05 AM

Re: Eighty@#$!%million dollars. 


They are already starting to do a good job of that IMO by bringing in Phil's BBQ, Hodads, etc and bringing in the craft beer sections along with the bar, tacqueria, etc. I think taco tuesdays year round will help as well as more giveaways, although some of the giveaways this year were the best giveaways I have seen in years (fadora, bbq set just to name a couple). Fans flock to games with good giveaways, When I was younger, I would always find out which games had the best giveaways and beg and plead for my parents to take us to the games on that day. The giveaway I remember the most was the Tony Gwynn poster with all the silver bats in his hand. I had that in my room for years and had a bunch of friends who had the same poster. 

For the fans to really show up in bunches though consistently would be for the Padres to not trade away a key player even if it is better for the team (to show loyalty) as well as bringing in 2-not 1- key players from the outside to show they have some interest in winning, before their farm can prove they will produce multiple star players.

With the park at the park and the sandbox and everything the stadium has to offer the fans, there is no reason why the Padres shouldn't be able to bring in more fans
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