DeJay wrote:

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--- sleepingcobra wrote:

I don't understand why zfp gets under everyone's skin so much.  He complains about the manager 27 times a day.  So what?  You guys, we really have a lot more to worry about than this guy.  Just don't read his posts if it's actually giving you a negative physiological reaction.  And you know what?  Think you know better than him?  Beat him in an argument using examples/evidence.  He uses them all the time.  I rarely see folks step up to the plate.  I just see people having emotional breakdowns because their tender eyeballs can't handle ZFP's OCD.

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I agree with this completely. In fact the people that continually harp on about ZFP annoy me way more than anything he ever says. To be honest this have a go at ZFP sport seems to have become a sort of sick obsession for some posters and it is actually a bit disconcerting to read.

The problem is if you give him any evidence/examples that prove your point, he just ignores it and keeps saying the same thing anyways. How do you have a reasonable debate like that?

You're not obligated to debate him on everything.Don't reply. If you can't even refrain from reading his posts, then use the ignore feature.. Some folks come here to vent, I suspect ZFP more often than not does just that, not to hold an academic debate.

smokednoak wrote:

DeJay wrote:

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--- sleepingcobra wrote:

I don't understand why zfp gets under everyone's skin so much.  He complains about the manager 27 times a day.  So what?  You guys, we really have a lot more to worry about than this guy.  Just don't read his posts if it's actually giving you a negative physiological reaction.  And you know what?  Think you know better than him?  Beat him in an argument using examples/evidence.  He uses them all the time.  I rarely see folks step up to the plate.  I just see people having emotional breakdowns because their tender eyeballs can't handle ZFP's OCD.

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I agree with this completely. In fact the people that continually harp on about ZFP annoy me way more than anything he ever says. To be honest this have a go at ZFP sport seems to have become a sort of sick obsession for some posters and it is actually a bit disconcerting to read.

The problem is if you give him any evidence/examples that prove your point, he just ignores it and keeps saying the same thing anyways. How do you have a reasonable debate like that?

asfanfirst wrote: You're not obligated to debate him on everything.Don't reply. If you can't even refrain from reading his posts, then use the ignore feature.. Some folks come here to vent, I suspect ZFP more often than not does just that, not to hold an academic debate.

And I don't. Did you read what I was responding to? Cobra suggested to post facts when you debate with ZFP. I was saying that strategy doesn't work, at least in my experience...

Edit: And to be clear, I don't advocate wanton ZFP bashing. Its not fair and this board is better than that.

smokednoak wrote:

asfanfirst wrote: You're not obligated to debate him on everything.Don't reply. If you can't even refrain from reading his posts, then use the ignore feature.. Some folks come here to vent, I suspect ZFP more often than not does just that, not to hold an academic debate.

And I don't. Did you read what I was responding to? Cobra suggested to post facts when you debate with ZFP. I was saying that strategy doesn't work, at least in my experience...

Edit: And to be clear, I don't advocate wanton ZFP bashing. Its not fair and this board is better than that.

I'm sure you're aware of how hilarious it is that we're now debating how to debate zfp.  This guy has Obi Wanned this board so hard.

ZFP isn't the only one who repetitively posts the same thing about certain players. If I want to chime in, I do. But, I have no interest in an endless repetitive back and forth where each party makes essentially the same claims over and over a thousand times. But, if someone wants to get into an interesting debate, I'll engage.

sleepingcobra wrote:
I'm sure you're aware of how hilarious it is that we're now debating how to debate zfp.  This guy has Obi Wanned this board so hard.

Skills, ZFP has.

voxhoo wrote: ZFP isn't the only one who repetitively posts the same thing about certain players. If I want to chime in, I do. But, I have no interest in an endless repetitive back and forth where each party makes essentially the same claims over and over a thousand times. But, if someone wants to get into an interesting debate, I'll engage.

smokednoak liked this

I can't resist another ZFP referendum.

Two things need to be kept in mind here.  The first is that it's always ugly for a community to gang up and single out one member for scorn and complaint.  The second is that, keeping the above in mind, ZFP does more or less have it coming.

Put it this way: Zito has a right to his opinions and (to some extent) a right to express them as obnoxiously and repetitively as he wants to; he has a right to vent too (from time to time and within reason).  But his words aren't going into a void and aren't meant for one either: they're submitted to an online community and part of their purpose is to elicit a response.  Given the responses he typically gets, he can hardly claim ignorance on the subject of how his tone and his manner strike others here; a reasonable and considerate person would, I imagine, demonstrate that they're cognizant of how they (their words) affect others.  To put it mildly, ZFP has failed to live up to this end of the social bargain and so, while ignoring him is still probably the best policy (as with any troll), it's hard to feel motivated to step in and defend the guy's right to be an unrelenting jackass.

It also needs to be kept in mind that said jackassery is not confined to mechanical complaints about Melvin's lineup-assembling talents.  The guy has a history, and (if memory serves) on more than one occasion this board has had to suffer through flame wars precipitated by ZFP's activities on rival teams' boards.